MI MI - Macomb Co, 2 WhtFems, UP10563 & UP11130, body parts in sewer, Aug'12

[dotr]

O/T, but related, Just goes to show you that it can happen...


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2013/01/16/20501911.html
"CHICAGO - Investigators probing a shipment of 18 human heads intercepted at Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport have determined they came from bodies donated for scientific research and were being transported for disposal, officials said on Tuesday"

 

[Steely Dan]

O/T, but related, Just goes to show you that it can happen...


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2013/01/16/20501911.html
"CHICAGO - Investigators probing a shipment of 18 human heads intercepted at Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport have determined they came from bodies donated for scientific research and were being transported for disposal, officials said on Tuesday"

See ya later dear, I'm headed to the airport. :giggle:

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I'm sorry, maybe I'm reading this wrong or they left something out of the story, but I don't understand why the heads had to be shipped from Italy to Chicago for disposal.

 

[dotr]

Would you believe it is not the first time! Found this from 2010
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594828,00.html
"An Arkansas coroner was investigating after a cargo shipment of 40 to 60 human heads was discovered by a Southwest Airlines employee, NBC DFW reported Thursday.


The container of heads was found in Little Rock, Ark., last Wednesday and was set for transportation to a Medtronic research lab in Fort Worth, Texas"


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594828,00.html#ixzz2ICiRKZ2m

 

[carbuff]

I'm sorry, maybe I'm reading this wrong or they left something out of the story, but I don't understand why the heads had to be shipped from Italy to Chicago for disposal.

Depends on what the research was. If it involved radioactivity, for instance, there are only a couple of places in the world equipped to properly manage that.

 

[Omori]

Weird goings-on the sewers of the Detroit Metropolitan region have police baffled. It has the makings of a sick horror movie.

15Aug2012 – Employees of Inland Waters Pollution Control are clearing debris from a pipe when they discover 10 softball-sized “non-skeletal body parts” about 50 feet below street level on a sewer grate at 15 Mile Road and Maple Lane in Sterling Heights. The sewer system is part of the Oakland-Macomb interceptor. The body parts are pieces of human skin with attached fatty tissue. The skin chunks appeared to have been sliced from the body. The pieces are thick and somewhat cubical having the shape of “rock candy.” Parts of a tattoo could be seen on six to eight of the chunks. The Sterling Heights police published photographs of the tattooed pieces in hopes that someone would recognize the design. Police do not know what the full tattoo depicts. So far police cannot match the remains to any missing persons.

20Dec2012 – The same Inland Waters crew is working on the Interceptor at the Edison Corridor located under 10 Mile Road and Frazho in Warren when they discover two large pieces of human skin with attached fatty tissue. The skin was not sloughed off from a decomposing body but was neatly cut. Once again, there are no leads.

Police determined that the Sterling Heights remains belonged to a large white person. The DNA was examined by the University of North Texas Center for Human Identification—Department of Forensics and Genetic Identification and found to be that of a female. The Warren skin fragments are also being examined in Texas but are still undergoing testing.

Warren police detective Sergeant Stephen Mills stated that the conditions inside the interceptor are such that there is no way the two finds located some four months apart could have entered the sewer system at the same time. The latter find would have rotted away before December were this the case. This indicates that the two sets of remains are not from the same victim.

According to Lieutenant Luke Riley of the Sterling Heights Police Department, the tattoo appears to have been inked about 15 to 20 years ago meaning the victim was well into adulthood, probably in her 40s at the time of her apparent death.

Macomb County Deputy Public Works Commissioner Gene Schabath postulated because no one has reported anyone missing that matches the skin chunks that they may have come from a mortuary or medical lab illegally disposing of body parts to save money. Lt. Riley stated that this scenario was “highly unlikely” and admitted that this could be the work of a serial killer as many in the Detroit area fear. If the skin chunks are determined to have come from two or more people then the serial killer hypothesis gains credence. Schabath also speculated that the second set of remains could be the work of a copycat killer. Until the tests from Texas are concluded, we can only speculate.

While the crew working in the interceptor had been at the scene the day before, nothing unusual was seen until the following day. The flesh chunks may have floated to them from the site of the earlier find which is upstream but, again, the two sets of chunks could not have been in the sewer for the same length of time. The line runs for 21 miles to the Detroit Water Treatment plant. At 8 Mile Road, all contents in the sewer lines are sliced and shredded before entering the plant.

Schabath stated that at least one of the Inland Waters employees was at both locations at the time of the discoveries. Police have not mentioned any persons of interest but if a crew worker committed the deeds, he would not be very smart to be present at both discoveries. Yet the sheer chance of two such discoveries only four months and five miles apart in a sewer system with literally thousands of miles of pipe in which the contents are always flowing at 5 to 8 mph and never coming to rest is unusual. To enter an interceptor requires that the water be drained which takes hours. Then there is only a small space in which to work. The odds of finding flesh chunks at both locations in this manner are very high. Schabath stated that for this to happen haphazardly would mean “there had to be a hell of a lot more parts.”

Police do not know if the finds of flesh are related to the discovery of two decapitated bodies found back in July—one in the Detroit River and the other in a nearby canal.

http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/ht_body_parts_found_1_nt_120815_wg.jpg

 

[wfgodot]

Reminds of the way the English serial killer Dennis Nilsen was eventually brought to justice after attempting to flush the remains of a victim down the toilet - which led to clogging of the drains at 23 Cranley Gardens, Muswell Hill, North London, and, eventually, to a host of other grim discoveries. Egad. Wasn't nearly as hard, of course, to pin the "non-skeletal body parts" on Nilsen as it will be to discover what such parts are doing in the Detroit sewer system.

 

[reasypeasy]

The offcuts from a large abdominoplasty could easily be cut into ten softball sized chunks.

 

[Soulmagent]

The offcuts from a large abdominoplasty could easily be cut into ten softball sized chunks.

Lets hope that is what is happening.

Although the tattoo on so many parts and the description of the cuts has me doubting that.

 

[Ausgirl]

Aaaand I think I'll forgo that midnight snack I wanted five minutes ago...

What a creepy story. I bet the chunks are cut so neatly to fit the disposal method. Which is probably a toilet pipe?

 

[Omori]

Some kind of liposuction or plastic surgery is a possibility. There seem to be these makeshift plastic surgery quacks operating out of hotel rooms in most major cities. But I doubt anyone would want to destroy a large complex tattoo unless it was an emergency and if it was an emergency, I would think they would go to a hospital and not a motel room quack.

It is possible the parts come from the same body if the body is frozen and being disposed of little by little but the problem with that is that it would be nearly impossible for the same work crew within a few square miles to keep running across these remains by pure chance. That's enough to make me think someone on the work crews is doing it but they'd never get away with it. You know the cops are checking all of them out. Maybe a crewman could have done it the first time but doing it a second time would be incredibly foolish unless he wants to be caught.

The other possibility is that some sick individual watches the sewer systems and when he sees a crew go down, he lifts up a manhole cover upstream somewhere and dumps in the parts wanting the crew to find them.

 

[dotr]

Also wondering about tattoo art collections.
This link includes pics and subject matter that is NOT FOR EVERYONE GRAPHIC!
Scroll down for pic. of tattooed skin collected for Japenese museum.
http://lifeand6months.com/2012/11/01/the-tattoo-collectors-film-fiction/

"Dr. Fukushi in the preservation lab at The Medical Pathology Museum of Tokyo University, Japan. Photograph reproduced from Tattoo Time Volume 4: Life & Death Tattoos (1987)"

 

[MayraMM]

Some kind of liposuction or plastic surgery is a possibility. There seem to be these makeshift plastic surgery quacks operating out of hotel rooms in most major cities. But I doubt anyone would want to destroy a large complex tattoo unless it was an emergency and if it was an emergency, I would think they would go to a hospital and not a motel room quack.

It is possible the parts come from the same body if the body is frozen and being disposed of little by little but the problem with that is that it would be nearly impossible for the same work crew within a few square miles to keep running across these remains by pure chance. That's enough to make me think someone on the work crews is doing it but they'd never get away with it. You know the cops are checking all of them out. Maybe a crewman could have done it the first time but doing it a second time would be incredibly foolish unless he wants to be caught.

The other possibility is that some sick individual watches the sewer systems and when he sees a crew go down, he lifts up a manhole cover upstream somewhere and dumps in the parts wanting the crew to find them.

I was thinking the same thing; an unlicensed plastic surgery outfit getting rid of biomaterial, since they can't really pay for proper disposal without being found out. From what I've read so far, there's been no bone or complete limb, teeth, or anything like that. I bet those pieces of skin were removed, and then later cut up for easier disposal. Obviously, the former owner of the skin isn't going to step forward any more than the supposed surgeon, and I doubt their family members will speak up, either.

If there was bone or teeth, then it would seem more likely to be a serial killer.

Also wonder about the crew that found the skin. There was one person in common at both scenes. That seems a little coincidental.

 

[Omori]

I was thinking the same thing; an unlicensed plastic surgery outfit getting rid of biomaterial, since they can't really pay for proper disposal without being found out.

The problem with that is that there are huge swaths of Detroit that are completely deserted--urban jungle--because 500,000 people have fled there in the last 4 years. I've driven through some of these areas and it makes you feel like the last person on earth--all deserted houses falling into ruin and overgrown lots with weeds taller than a person stands. The cops can't patrol it because of budget cuts. Bodies are found out there all the time, many from the suburbs rather than the city itself. It's an ideal place to dump bodies. They can lay out in the open for weeks without being found. So why not just dump the skin cuttings out there? Probably nobody would have even found them if it had been done that way.

From what I've read so far, there's been no bone or complete limb, teeth, or anything like that. I bet those pieces of skin were removed, and then later cut up for easier disposal. Obviously, the former owner of the skin isn't going to step forward any more than the supposed surgeon, and I doubt their family members will speak up, either.

I would think family would be the first to speak up. Would you let a family member do that to themselves? Another problem is that one source said it is difficult to slice the flesh from a body in this manner without freezing it first. if this is so, then it isn't plastic surgery. It's murder. But I'm not an expert in these matters.

If there was bone or teeth, then it would seem more likely to be a serial killer.

Teeth can identify a victim so those may never be found. The bones might be kept for specific purposes or just for souvenirs. If this is a murder victim, it just means the killer is disposing of flesh and bone separately. The most obvious reason would be to make IDing the victims more difficult. It's worked pretty well thus far.

Also wonder about the crew that found the skin. There was one person in common at both scenes. That seems a little coincidental.

There was AT LEAST one person common at both scenes according to the source of that information. It was, after all, the same work crew. The crew are going to be the first people the cops investigate. If it was a crewman, he's going to be IDed pretty quickly so we'll see.

 

[carbuff]

Some kind of liposuction or plastic surgery is a possibility. There seem to be these makeshift plastic surgery quacks operating out of hotel rooms in most major cities. But I doubt anyone would want to destroy a large complex tattoo unless it was an emergency and if it was an emergency, I would think they would go to a hospital and not a motel room quack.

It is possible the parts come from the same body if the body is frozen and being disposed of little by little but the problem with that is that it would be nearly impossible for the same work crew within a few square miles to keep running across these remains by pure chance. That's enough to make me think someone on the work crews is doing it but they'd never get away with it. You know the cops are checking all of them out. Maybe a crewman could have done it the first time but doing it a second time would be incredibly foolish unless he wants to be caught.

The other possibility is that some sick individual watches the sewer systems and when he sees a crew go down, he lifts up a manhole cover upstream somewhere and dumps in the parts wanting the crew to find them.

What about somebody who was wanted for a crime (or was afraid she might be wanted) and could be identified by her ink?

 

[Omori]

What about somebody who was wanted for a crime (or was afraid she might be wanted) and could be identified by her ink?

To cut out a huge swath of flesh with the fat layer still attached just to get rid of a tattoo is so insane this person would belong in an asylum. I don't know if people understand how dangerous removing that much flesh and fat from the body is. Liposuction only removes minimal amounts of fat for body sculpting. You just can't cut out a huge patch of flesh like that.

Remember these chunks are softball-sized and they've found 10 of these. Since the tattoo is missing pieces then there's other chunks that have not been found. How can you remove that much flesh and fat from someone and not kill them in the process??

These pieces weren't removed one at a time. A big piece was cut out and then sliced up. We know this because two of the pieces fit together in the photograph. That can only be because it was sliced up AFTER being removed. If this was illegal surgery and this person survived it, she would be in such agony that it would make any benefit derived from doing it negligible. I'd rather go to jail than undergo something like that. The risk of infection is tremendous.

This was a murder and dismemberment. Somebody will have to prove to me that you can cut that much flesh and fat out of a person without severely injuring or killing them before I believe this was anything but dismemberment of a corpse.

 

[Ausgirl]

^ What Omori said.

I've learned quite a bit about skin as an organ, since my lymphatic system starting failing..

Loss of that much skin and fatty tissue, at that depth, in that volume all at once would require hospitalisation and a LOT of intensive care, if it wasn't immediately fatal.

 

[Ausgirl]

Just some added thoughts:

They said there was 'a little bit of muscle tissue' adhering to the rest, so the flaying was pretty deep.

Is that the edge of a nipple, on one of those pieces? I wish they'd put a credit card or something next to the pieces, for size perspective. Round boob shape might account for the shape of the pieces maybe.. if they were molded around something round, they might fit together better?

The curlicue parts of the design are definitely Asian influenced. And I'd say the tattoo was probably professionally done, the edges of the lines are still pretty sharp for their age.

My own tattoos (and I am not a skinny girl!) are around 25 years old, and some of the edges are fuzzy due to the stretch of weight gain/aging (omg, but they are still pretty! and so am I! ) - they were all professionally done.. my observation here is that the tattoos done by a top end tattooist, even the ones on softer tissue areas have kept their lines pretty well, whereas the ones done by the less skilled guy have not. I am guessing the guy who did the tatt on the body parts knew what he was doing for sure.

So my guess is, they aren't prison or home-done -- somewhere I reckon there's a skilled shop tattooist who knows that tattoo.

 

[Omori]

But since the tattoo is 15-20 years old, that tattooist could be dead. It could have been done outside the country. It could have been done in Asia. The Japanese are pretty tattoo-crazy. I wonder if there is any possibility that she is Asian? When I look at it, the tat looks like it might have been a copy of shunga art--like a geisha or a samurai. You can look it up on the web if you don't know what shunga art is. I wonder if they published the photos in Japanese magazines and websites asking for help IDing it they wouldn't get somewhere.

 

[Ausgirl]

I'd have to assume they'd done other work on other people, though? - maybe someone will recognise it. For some reason, I am reminded of South-East Asian designs.

International exposure is certainly a good idea. And news like this is weird enough that it may just make it overseas.

Oh - and the report said the victim was a white woman. Heavy style of tats for a woman (not so much now, but in 2000 or so?), which might also mean she'd be more memorable to an artist.