MI MI - Sterling Heights,*GRAPHIC*, WhtUnkSex/Age, UP11640, human flesh found in sewer, Sep'13

[Goecke]

WARNING: Graphic images at NamUs link
Case Numbers
NCMEC Number--
ME/C Case Number13-39455
Demographics
SexUnsure
Race / EthnicityWhite / Caucasian
Possible First Name--
Possible Middle Name--
Possible Last Name--
Possible Nickname--
Estimated Age GroupCannot Determine
Estimated Age Range (Years)--
Estimated Year of Death--
Estimated PMI--
HeightCannot Estimate
WeightCannot Estimate
Circumstances
TypeUnidentified Deceased
Date Body FoundSeptember 23, 2013
NamUs Case CreatedOctober 1, 2013
ME/C QA Reviewed--
Location Found Map
LocationSterling Heights, Michigan 48312
CountyMacomb County
GPS Coordinates (Not Mapped)--
Circumstances of RecoveryPeices of human flesh found in sewer.
Details of Recovery


Inventory of RemainsHead not recovered Torso not recovered One or more limbs not recovered One or both hands not recovered
Condition of RemainsNot recognizable - Partial remains with soft tissues
Physical Description
Hair ColorBrown
Head Hair DescriptionUnknown
Body Hair DescriptionUnknown
Facial Hair DescriptionUnknown
Left Eye ColorUnknown
Right Eye ColorUnknown
Eye Description--

--

This is an extremely odd case, so I figured I should create a thread. This Doe is one of three people whose flesh/fatty tissue have been found in the area, although it seems like the other two aren't on NamUs. DNA testing confirmed the first two belonged to women, although it the sex of this Doe hasn't been determined. Authorities aren't sure if the three people are even deceased, and the remains could be surgical waste that wasn't disposed of properly. However, it's also stated that it could be the work of a serial killer.

Macomb County Doe (2013)
Remains in Drain Pipe Raise Fears About Michigan Serial Killer
Police: Human flesh found in Metro Detroit sewers could be improperly disposed of surgical waste
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs) (warning again for graphic images)

 

[Goecke]

Update: The other two are on NamUs.
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs) (this one has PM pictures of a tattoo if you scroll down, but nothing as bad as the pics for the first one posted)

 

[iulia]

Here's the thread for UP 10563 and UP 11130: MI - MI - Macomb Co., WhtFem UP10563 & UP11130, body parts in sewer, Aug'12

 

[Goecke]

Here's the thread for UP 10563 and UP 11130: MI - MI - Macomb Co., WhtFem UP10563 & UP11130, body parts in sewer, Aug'12

Should we merge this thread with that one?

 

[BigKeyManatee]

Should we merge this thread with that one?

Should we merge this thread with that one?

Great idea. I would merge the threads if I knew how!

Bumping this super odd case. It’s a wild ride.

I think that the surgical/medical waste answer might hold water. The sections appear to be neatly excised, of uniform size and depth, and look to have come from persons not past middle age. Cosmetic surgery waste?

Is there is a medical park in the area?

Also, could this amount of flesh be safely removed in a tummy tuck? Non-Brazilian butt-lift ? I believe it looks about the limit. I have only seen parts of these procedures on the tv series “Botched” and am hoping that some active med-Surgery professionals will weigh in. Seems doubtful that any reputable medical center equipped for major surgeries could be so lax with biohazard disposal but anything is possible.

If that’s the answer to the how, still unanswered is the “why.”

Google search of the area shows mixed residential, academic and maybe industrial park? Asking for locals to please elucidate…

There is a technical skills school (WCS Career Prep Center) near the site. It trains young people for medical/healthcare careers but I cannot for the life of me figure which non-professional career path needs chunks of human flesh for training. Perhaps for mortuary or autopsy assistants to practice cutting or stitching? Don’t know if that’s even curriculum at WCS. Ideas?

Surgeons and doctors certainly do attend seminars where donated human body parts are provided for them to practice new techniques and procedures. Medical device companies host the training classes and also provide the human tissues. Obviously these seminars can’t happen in your local Hilton Ballroom (fingers crossed) and require specialized classrooms. Perhaps there is such a facility nearby that was rented out and not properly cleared after use?
Just trying to make the pieces fit *

MOO.
With due respect, thank you for coming along for the ride.
* BTW that looks like a crackin’ Kraken tattoo and I’m sure who ever it adorned is missing its magnificent entirety.

 

[Linear13]

I used to work at a small school where I taught Anatomy and Physiology. The curriculum taught nursing, medical assisting, radiology etc. We were very limited in what items we could use for dissection and NO human parts were ever used. It is typically only at medical schools/universities where donated human bodies are used for dissection and these schools have a very strict policy for disposal of said bodies.

I can not think of a time ever when a legitimate doctor would dispose of flesh in a sewer (such as flush it down the toilet). That leads me to the people who perform without a license…and they are around. Typically these unlicensed individuals do simple procedures. Such as Botox, laser tattoo removal, various types of skin rejuvenation, removal of warts and skin tags…things that should be done by a licensed individual. I have read stories and seen on television unlicensed ‘doctors’ and/or legit doctors who have lost their license performing illegal plastic surgery. This could be from one of those type of places. Yet the reason I think it is not from one of those places is that the pieces were found in 3 different places. Almost like the perpetrator did the cutting in different places and flushed or lifted a grate and tossed the pieces there. If it were an illegal clinic the pieces seemingly would have all been found around the same place or along the same pipe.

They were very obviously cut with some precision. I am unfamiliar with the styles of cuts for tummy tucks, bottom lifts and implants. Maybe there is someone here who is either a surgeon or nurse in that particular field and will recognize these cuts if they are in fact from a medical procedure. Otherwise I suspect we have a serial offender doing some serious ‘practicing’ in this area. The MP list in the Detroit metro area is huge but I would guess the tattoo would be the best starting point.

MOO

 

[Goecke]

I took an anatomy class with a cadaver lab when I was in college. IIRC my school was the only one in the state to have a cadaver lab.
If this WAS waste from a cadaver lab or med school it 100% not disposed of properly and someone was being extremely negligent. From what I remember, the cadavers we used (which were people who had donated their bodies) were cremated and their ashes were given to their families.
Also, the skin and subcutaneous fat was removed in large pieces and placed back over the bodies at the end of the day. The cadavers were also embalmed and HEAVILY preserved, and I feel like we would know if these remains were or not.

 

[bombardier]

Well..uhh... this is certainly a different one
Hopefully I can shed some light, as someone who works in pathology and processes surgical specimens like these all the time.
I'm also in the camp that these are medical waste specimens, maybe removed as part of medical treatment or cosmetic surgery.
-the cuts are very clean, including down to the subcutaneous tissue
-there is one photographed piece which is shaped like an ellipse (with a point); this is VERY commonly seen when excising skin because it's easy to sew the remaining skin back together. reasons you may see a skin ellipse with no obvious lesions (of note though - this piece does include a healed scar) include a 'tummy tuck' procedure, or re-excising a previously removed skin cancer to make sure the margins are clear.
-there is one piece that has an included strip of skin with no underlying subcutaneous tissue; this is a dead giveaway to me that this lil extra strip was only removed for aesthetic or surgical reasons (i see these sometimes in lab; I believe it's because the surgeon is cleaning up his edges for a better product when sewing it all together, or has decided to take a bit more of that margin). this would be useless if someone is just looking to dispose of human tissue.
-the hairs on the skin appear blunt and shaved down; this is often done prior to surgery to reduce infection risk and keep the site clean. the only long hairs are around the peripheries.

based on the skin samples ive seen and what namus provides...it looks like some/all of these pieces could be part of a panniculus (lower stomach fat) excision, which is done for obesity/weight loss. it contains linear stretch marks, is thick hair-bearing (so likely not breast or smth like that), and has the slight redness/pitted lesions you often seen in the panniculus of those suffering from weight-related lymphedema. of course though those features could be on other areas of the body! but lower stomach is what immediately came to mind. here is a photo of a woman with a pannus which has the features i'm talking about...

 

[bombardier]

as to how they would have ended up in a sewer drain... I have nothing If a school or facility lookin to save some money on biohazard disposal wanted to improperly get rid of specimens, they could just put them in landfill garbage. Some possibilities I'm considering include...specimen accidentally falls into a large lab sink drain that doesn't have a filter, and somehow no one notices or doesn't report to their place of work, or a biohazard disposal service employee was being lazy and for some reason dumped solid waste into a receptacle for treated, sewage-safe liquid waste. However, if a whole bag was dumped, you'd think more anatomical specimens of various people would have turned up. idk!

 

[Goecke]

@bombardier I really appreciate your input on this!
I'm very curious about your thoughts about the other similar case where photos are available (The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)). There doesn't appear to be any subcutaneous tissue, at least not nearly as much as in the other case. The images aren't as good of quality and a lot of the skin is covered by the tattoo but I'm pretty sure I see stretch marks.

 

[bombardier]

@bombardier I really appreciate your input on this!
I'm very curious about your thoughts about the other similar case where photos are available (The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)). There doesn't appear to be any subcutaneous tissue, at least not nearly as much as in the other case. The images aren't as good of quality and a lot of the skin is covered by the tattoo but I'm pretty sure I see stretch marks.

this one is really hard to access! I believe that the photos released to namus/MSM are pieces of only skin theyre stripped from the remains and dried out, or more likely, photos of the remains were taken, printed off in color, cut to size, and then attempted to be reassembled, because they are so flat, thin, and glossy! Real skin would show texture or curl at the edges.
the remains also had subcutaneous tissue, which isn't represented in the photo. because of this, I can't really speak as to how it was cut, but the shapes/sizes appear to suggest that this was for some sort of reconstruction. removing one area in irregular shaped, multiple pieces is weird, though. especially because people usually put their big tattoos on visible places like limbs, chest, back, etc, which aren't likely to have big pieces of skin taken off. the skin looks unblemished? so I don't feel like there's a ton of urgent medical reasons which would require an excision like that.
something that leads me to believe those are surgical is some of the ''skin prints'' seem to be bordered by black pen markings, which are done prior to surgery so the doctor can confirm the removal areas with staff/patient/while patient is standing. of course though, if these are paper prints, LE could have circled the stuff they wanted to cut out and that's what I'm seeing

 

[Goecke]

Huh, you're right about those possibly being paper print-outs and not actual skin. If that's the case, I wonder why they chose to do it that way when they uploaded graphic pictures (with no identifying features, like the tattoo) for the other case. The two cases seem to be under the same jurisdiction.

 

[bombardier]

Huh, you're right about those possibly being paper print-outs and not actual skin. If that's the case, I wonder why they chose to do it that way when they uploaded graphic pictures (with no identifying features, like the tattoo) for the other case. The two cases seem to be under the same jurisdiction.

I've seen news articles using the tattoo pictures; maybe they wanted something totally non-graphic to have a widespread public release?

 

[Goecke]

Also, any guesses on what part of the body it could have come from? It would make sense if it was also from the stomach area but it's hard to tell for sure since there's no hair or blemishes aside from the stretch marks. I see what might be a blemish on the left-hand side of the 'middle' piece, but that might be the edge of the tattoo/ink blowout.

I've also looked into panniculectomies and it seems like if either of these Does had one, it was done 'non-conventionally' or the pieces were cut smaller after the fact. All of the pictures I could find involved the pannus being removed in one (or two) large pieces.

 

[BigKeyManatee]

I've seen news articles using the tattoo pictures; maybe they wanted something totally non-graphic to have a widespread public release?

Much gratitude to @bombardier, @Goecke and @Linear13 for their professional insights on this case.
Looking at the tattooed pieces I actually had the fleeting thought of making picture photocopies of each of the hunks of flesh with the tattoo sections, cutting them out, and then pieceing them together like a jigsaw puzzle so people would have a better idea of what the tattoo looked like in the flesh.
Obviously I didn’t do that, but maybe someone in LE had the same graphic idea?

 

[Aurora90]

bump