I believe her parents stated MD had reported bullying to school officials the day before the fight. I wonder if it is true
Missouri, St. Louis - Teenage girl critically injured after brutal fight with another female teen near Hazelwood East High School, 8 March 2024
- Thread starter Sundog
- Start date
tlcya
mother daughter sister wife friend paralegal
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2009
- Messages
- 44,676
- Reaction score
- 93,639
"Maurnice was not the aggressor," she said. "This had manifested over a three-month period. My daughter was focused on her education, and I don't know... maybe they thought she was a nerd."
According to DeClue, police investigators have compiled copies of Instagram messages that included menacing threats to Maurnice.
"My daughter said she blacked out during the fight. I didn't know she was being bullied," Consuella DeClue said. "I would have pulled her out of school."
Family of teen assault suspect says 'she wants to apologize' to Kaylee Gain
ETA I can find no MSM that suggests MD reported she was being bullied to the school on any date.
Last edited:
SteveP
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2012
- Messages
- 4,587
- Reaction score
- 44,689
Very good news in KG's ongoing recovery...
www.dailymail.co.uk
Kaylee Gain is walking and improved less than two months after attack
Kaylee Gain is walking again and has 'greatly improved' less than two months after the brutal school attack that left her in critical condition with severe brain injuries.
Last edited:
"But as she entered her teenage years, Kaylee began to yearn for her mother and lobbied her dad to let her return to Nordstrom’s home" .
" His daughter, he said, began to have problems at school and was routinely involved in altercations"
IMO. It looks like KG experienced some childhood trauma and behavioral or conflict resolution problems. I wonder if Dad has a full record of any issues and her disciplinary records from school.
MOO, MD (per family) after reporting being bullied by KG engaged in a mutually agreed upon fight. She got the upper hand and in a few seconds took it to the extreme, bashing KG's head repeatedly into the ground. I can see this being a case of being feed up and overwhelmed in that short moment. And I get that.
*In terms of messaging nasty things to each other, responding to someone who is bullying you doesn't necessarily make you a bully. Some people see it as standing up.*
The video of the fight is truly heartbreaking. Fighting in itself IS violent, especially with older children and adults.
There is no longer what we use to call "fair fights". It used to be when someone was down the fight ended. Now multiple people are fighting one person, heads are slammed against anything in sight, and people are being stomped.
My 16 year old grand daughter is small framed like KG, but also petite. She is a fighter (she holds her on). She was recently fighting (agreed upon) in the school bathroom. And of course there was punching and grabbing of hair and taking the other girl down. I had a serious conversation with her about choosing battles wisely, different ways of responding to conflict, how things could end terribly for either person in a fight, and being more responsible. I can see how she's grown over the years and even since this fight earlier this year. She just got her 1st job and her parents and I had a great conversation with her about dealing with issues at work and with any customers. I believe this experience will ground her even more as she prepares for her future.
With that being said, I need all the facts before agreeing that this should be handled in adult court. The video is just part of the facts.
I hope both of these girls can learn from this and eventually go on and experience a great life with much success in all they want to accomplish.
" His daughter, he said, began to have problems at school and was routinely involved in altercations"
IMO. It looks like KG experienced some childhood trauma and behavioral or conflict resolution problems. I wonder if Dad has a full record of any issues and her disciplinary records from school.
MOO, MD (per family) after reporting being bullied by KG engaged in a mutually agreed upon fight. She got the upper hand and in a few seconds took it to the extreme, bashing KG's head repeatedly into the ground. I can see this being a case of being feed up and overwhelmed in that short moment. And I get that.
*In terms of messaging nasty things to each other, responding to someone who is bullying you doesn't necessarily make you a bully. Some people see it as standing up.*
The video of the fight is truly heartbreaking. Fighting in itself IS violent, especially with older children and adults.
There is no longer what we use to call "fair fights". It used to be when someone was down the fight ended. Now multiple people are fighting one person, heads are slammed against anything in sight, and people are being stomped.
My 16 year old grand daughter is small framed like KG, but also petite. She is a fighter (she holds her on). She was recently fighting (agreed upon) in the school bathroom. And of course there was punching and grabbing of hair and taking the other girl down. I had a serious conversation with her about choosing battles wisely, different ways of responding to conflict, how things could end terribly for either person in a fight, and being more responsible. I can see how she's grown over the years and even since this fight earlier this year. She just got her 1st job and her parents and I had a great conversation with her about dealing with issues at work and with any customers. I believe this experience will ground her even more as she prepares for her future.
With that being said, I need all the facts before agreeing that this should be handled in adult court. The video is just part of the facts.
I hope both of these girls can learn from this and eventually go on and experience a great life with much success in all they want to accomplish.
This is wonderful news!Very good news in KG's ongoing recovery...
Kaylee Gain is walking and improved less than two months after attack
Kaylee Gain is walking again and has 'greatly improved' less than two months after the brutal school attack that left her in critical condition with severe brain injuries.
tlcya
mother daughter sister wife friend paralegal
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2009
- Messages
- 44,676
- Reaction score
- 93,639
while I don't love the headline DM opted for because I don't think MD is a bully, or at least no more so than KG is, I am very glad to read the update and that KG is progressing in her recovery. My hope is that both these young ladies and their broader friend groups really take a lesson from this situation and alter course, finding new ways to handle their interactions with others.
Puzzles8
Exonerated Mountain Lion
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2018
- Messages
- 3,619
- Reaction score
- 33,548
I also hope both the High School and the Community take this opportunity to address this.
Perhaps offering seminars/classes/group opportunities to talk about resolving disagreements and anger management.
That is one good thing that come out of this tragedy.
JMO
airportwoman
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2019
- Messages
- 2,615
- Reaction score
- 16,938
Yeah, they go to their groups and classes, answer the test questions the way they know the facilitator will want them to, and then go back home or to school, and nothing will change.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
Resolving Disagreements. Training.
From reviewing the 115 page student handbook,* looks like measures are already in place to basically address ^ this.
Are Hazelwood teachers, staff, admin'rs, principals complying w these policies, FOLLOWING thru w procedures? IDK.
"Restorative Justice Overview"** publication sounds wonderful.
Ditto the "Positive Behavioral Interventions and Supports (PBIS)" *** w committee taking "steps to ensure a culture of positivity is celebrated among the Wildcat community."
I'd like to think so but have doubts about that. ICBWrong.
@tlcya Yes, wish they'd find new ways to handle disagreemts.
@airportwoman "Wash, rinse, repeat." Pretty much.
imo
____________________________
* "2023-2024 STUDENT-PARENT HANDBOOK / BEHAVIOR GUIDE"
Page 57: "BEHAVIOR CONTRACT/PLAN OR BEHAVIOR INTERVENTION PLAN
A behavior plan is defined as a document developed by students, parents/legal guardians and staff to provide support for a student to address misbehavior and assist them in better
decision-making."
"CONFLICT MEDIATION (PEER AND/OR ADULT DIRECTED)
Mediation is defined as a meeting between two parties to address an area of concern with the outcome being that each will understand the other’s perspective and make better choices moving forward. This may be facilitated by a staff member or a student peer leader."
Page 59: "REFLECTION ACTIVITY
A reflection activity is an assignment provided by a staff member for a student-designed to have them reflect on their behavior and to think of methods to help them not repeat the behavior."
"RE-TEACH EXPECTATIONS
Re-teaching expectations is defined as teaching building-wide behavioral expectations to a student which have been taught earlier in the school year to reinforce the importance of positive decision-making."
Page 60: "ROLE-PLAY
Role-play is defined as an activity where a staff member helps students to understand a situation in which they were involved in from a different perspective. This may result in the student taking on the role of another student to help them gain a better understanding of the choices that were made."
Page 61: "SOCIAL SKILLS INSTRUCTION
Social skills instruction is defined as a situation where a staff member teaches a student appropriate and expected social behavior."
Page 62: "LIST OF INTERVENTIONS
"Tier 1 Interventions may include, but are not limited to, the following: ....
" - Bullying Prevention
● Restorative Practices
● De-escalation strategies
● Support from the school behavior intevention staff..."
^ among 25 plus factors.
Page 63: "Tier 2 Interventions may include...."
yadda yadda
"Tier 3 Interventions may include...."
yadda yadda
**https://www.hazelwoodschools.org/cm.../385/An Overview of Restorative Practices.pdf
*** Students and Staff Feel the Love With West High’s PBIS Program
@Puzzles8 Thx for your post which sounds like a great idea.
From reviewing the 115 page student handbook,* looks like measures are already in place to basically address ^ this.
Are Hazelwood teachers, staff, admin'rs, principals complying w these policies, FOLLOWING thru w procedures? IDK.
"Restorative Justice Overview"** publication sounds wonderful.
Ditto the "Positive Behavioral Interventions and Supports (PBIS)" *** w committee taking "steps to ensure a culture of positivity is celebrated among the Wildcat community."
I'd like to think so but have doubts about that. ICBWrong.
@tlcya Yes, wish they'd find new ways to handle disagreemts.
@airportwoman "Wash, rinse, repeat." Pretty much.
imo
____________________________
* "2023-2024 STUDENT-PARENT HANDBOOK / BEHAVIOR GUIDE"
Page 57: "BEHAVIOR CONTRACT/PLAN OR BEHAVIOR INTERVENTION PLAN
A behavior plan is defined as a document developed by students, parents/legal guardians and staff to provide support for a student to address misbehavior and assist them in better
decision-making."
"CONFLICT MEDIATION (PEER AND/OR ADULT DIRECTED)
Mediation is defined as a meeting between two parties to address an area of concern with the outcome being that each will understand the other’s perspective and make better choices moving forward. This may be facilitated by a staff member or a student peer leader."
Page 59: "REFLECTION ACTIVITY
A reflection activity is an assignment provided by a staff member for a student-designed to have them reflect on their behavior and to think of methods to help them not repeat the behavior."
"RE-TEACH EXPECTATIONS
Re-teaching expectations is defined as teaching building-wide behavioral expectations to a student which have been taught earlier in the school year to reinforce the importance of positive decision-making."
Page 60: "ROLE-PLAY
Role-play is defined as an activity where a staff member helps students to understand a situation in which they were involved in from a different perspective. This may result in the student taking on the role of another student to help them gain a better understanding of the choices that were made."
Page 61: "SOCIAL SKILLS INSTRUCTION
Social skills instruction is defined as a situation where a staff member teaches a student appropriate and expected social behavior."
Page 62: "LIST OF INTERVENTIONS
"Tier 1 Interventions may include, but are not limited to, the following: ....
" - Bullying Prevention
● Restorative Practices
● De-escalation strategies
● Support from the school behavior intevention staff..."
^ among 25 plus factors.
Page 63: "Tier 2 Interventions may include...."
yadda yadda
"Tier 3 Interventions may include...."
yadda yadda
**https://www.hazelwoodschools.org/cm.../385/An Overview of Restorative Practices.pdf
*** Students and Staff Feel the Love With West High’s PBIS Program
My opinion is that the current situation has gone way beyond the school's "Restorative Justice" initiative and I hope that the legal system will hold the perpetrator accountable for the attempted murder of Kaylee Gain. There's no "restorative justice" for Kaylee, she has to learn how to walk and talk again.
@Sundog
First, yes -
- agreeing that MD - KG actions are likely WAAAY beyond possible meaningful remedy w'in school district.*
- hoping the crim procedure/trial will hold teen accountable.
Second, my post responded to a post** (which I read as) saying or implying that an event like this CALLS for SCHOOL & community to do SOMETHING NEW to address it.
Seems imo the school ALREADY has myriad methods (quoted in my earlier post) of dealing w "lower levels" of these types of student actions.
What I questioned was whether there is any school action or FOLLOW THRU. IDK.
___________________
* STUDENT'S OFF CAMPUS ACTIONS
Per below, school could take disciplinary measures re MD for her off-campus actions. Will the school could do that or decide that juvie system or adult crim cts will "take care of it?" IDK
"WHEN DO HAZELWOOD’S GUIDELINES BEGIN AND END?....
"Behavior that occurs off campus that disrupts the academic process or threatens the safety of students and/or staff may be addressed as if the behavior occurred on campus."
^ From hardcopy page 54 (digital page 67) of
"2023-2024 STUDENT-PARENT HANDBOOK / BEHAVIOR GUIDE"
** Missouri, St. Louis - Teenage girl in critical condition after brutal fight with another female teen near Hazelwood East High School, 8 March 2024
I would be very concerned if my granddaughter sought "fighting" as any kind of resolution for a dispute. There should be zero fighting in public school restrooms.
<modsnip - personalizing>
JMO
Last edited by a moderator:
In my humble opinion, from what I have read so far:
MD’s family came out fast and strong after the fight, painting her as a victim of bullying, a dedicated honor student, and a school athlete, that was merely getting on the bus to come home from school. Perhaps, this is what they were told by MD herself, and they chose to believe it, rather than investigate a bit further. They have not come out and publicly denied KG’s fathers claim that insults and threats were shared by both girls, and both girls agreed to fight. Since they were very vocal in the beginning, this leads me to suspect that they now know that MD was not a victim of circumstance. She purposely went to that location to fight KG.
KG may be an athlete and honor student also, but no one has mentioned either way. She was obviously troubled if physical fights with others were a common thing for her. It sounds like a reform school/alternative school was well in order. I hope KG recovers fully and is able to focus on her education in a better environment and live a productive life. She was most certainly headed down a slippery slope and destined for troubles ahead. Perhaps this event will kick start a whole new focus.
My opinion is that MD has been in fights in the past. Even though this was a wicked mismatch of size and weight, she appeared well versed in dominating someone physically and then took that to a skyrocketing level above domination. She is dangerous when provoked, in my opinion, regardless of her age.
Keeping this particular fight in family court would not be meaningful enough in my opinion. The punishment must fit the crime, and this particular situation was frightening. Everyone that has seen that video most certainly must recognize that.
I hope MD is tried as an adult and continues her advanced education and augments that education with intense anger management training, so that perhaps one day she can thrive in a civilized society.
MD’s family came out fast and strong after the fight, painting her as a victim of bullying, a dedicated honor student, and a school athlete, that was merely getting on the bus to come home from school. Perhaps, this is what they were told by MD herself, and they chose to believe it, rather than investigate a bit further. They have not come out and publicly denied KG’s fathers claim that insults and threats were shared by both girls, and both girls agreed to fight. Since they were very vocal in the beginning, this leads me to suspect that they now know that MD was not a victim of circumstance. She purposely went to that location to fight KG.
KG may be an athlete and honor student also, but no one has mentioned either way. She was obviously troubled if physical fights with others were a common thing for her. It sounds like a reform school/alternative school was well in order. I hope KG recovers fully and is able to focus on her education in a better environment and live a productive life. She was most certainly headed down a slippery slope and destined for troubles ahead. Perhaps this event will kick start a whole new focus.
My opinion is that MD has been in fights in the past. Even though this was a wicked mismatch of size and weight, she appeared well versed in dominating someone physically and then took that to a skyrocketing level above domination. She is dangerous when provoked, in my opinion, regardless of her age.
Keeping this particular fight in family court would not be meaningful enough in my opinion. The punishment must fit the crime, and this particular situation was frightening. Everyone that has seen that video most certainly must recognize that.
I hope MD is tried as an adult and continues her advanced education and augments that education with intense anger management training, so that perhaps one day she can thrive in a civilized society.
Hmmm, interesting. Back in the old days, each one of those things were addressed and taught by parents when their child was young.
Schools should not have to teach these things. When disengaged parents start flooding any school district with children that have no moral compass, no impulse control, no problem solving skills, and no respect for themselves or others this happens. Public schools need to have a basic set of behavioral rules. Students that fail to uphold these basic standards must be expelled from the school and let the parents figure out their education. Any student that puts hands on another student should be expelled. School is not for learning manners and morals. Home is. As it stands now the schools want to hold both parties in an altercation equally responsible. This produces open season on the honor role students, athletes, and other involved students. They have a lot to lose, so they end up being terrorized by bullies that have nothing to lose.
I also feel that social media exacerbates the problem. Schools probably used to be able to utilize expulsion as a cooling off period where students could calm down and return to school in a productive manner. Now, a kid is expelled, and spends the next 24 hours exchanging verbal assaults over text messages and keeps the rage thriving. Raising a child and monitoring their exposure to social media is a huge job. Parents must keep involved in their child’s social media exposure and involvement at all times. Texting/social media are able to silently invade the privacy of our homes and locked doors and create an unsafe environment for our kids.
In this case, it appears to me that MD's parents were very engaged when MD was in their care, but parents also have to rely on schools to enforce the "no bully" policy and play the role of substitute parent. <modsnip: not victim friendly> Where were the school counselors and resource officers? What kind of special education program did it offer?
I think the responsibility for this horrific case lies with the school and school district not doing its job during the hours of the day it was the substitute parent. Both KG and MD are victims and I hope they both receive the mental health therapy they need.
JMO
Last edited by a moderator:
LaborDayRN
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2012
- Messages
- 11,550
- Reaction score
- 52,462
I agree. My mother had so many sayings....
Two wrongs don't make a right
Don't judge a book by it's cover
It takes two to tango
Actions speak louder than words (one of my favorites while raising my children)
Where there's a will, there's a way
It's better to be safe than sorry! (applicable to this case)
The pen is mightier than the sword
Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill
I'll stop here. My point is that even if things are taught in school, they need to be reinforced in the home. I'm showing my age!
Last edited:
I guess in order for it to be partly the schools issue is if MD reported KG was bullying her, and they did nothing.
Last edited by a moderator:
KG was suspended from school the previous day for fighting with another student. She should have been on the radar of the school counselors and resource officers and given the help she needed. Our local school district offers free family counseling sessions.
JMO
DNASolves
Staff online
-
WS AdminAdministrator
Online statistics
- Members online
- 149
- Guests online
- 243
- Total visitors
- 392