MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #7

[shergal]

I don't want to disturb the party too much but this would put the theory of a stranger abduction/vehicle used back into play. I'd like to see more real truth of just Jacobs case instead of trying to find ghostly links.

It sounds to me like this WCCO segment will be more about the assaults in 1987 and Jared's case though, although if Patty is on, there will be mention of Jacob's case also. I feel any attention to these cases by major news media is good though. It may get more people to come forward with info they know or tips.

 

[kemo]

I've been following this thread for a while and I have become quite uncomfortable with some posters endlessly "beating the drum" for the "DR did it" meme.

The case against DR boils down to:
1)He lived near the crime scene.
2)He's kind of an odd duck, at least for Stearns County.
3)He was named a POI and a warrant was obtained to search his property(we don't know what the basis of these were but some are still satisfied that the burden of proof is met. Anyone familiar with True Crime knows that innocent people often are named "POI" or have their homes or businesses searched. This usually happens in high profile cases where their is a lot of pressure.
4)DR is the only "name" we have

The claim has been made that one Kevin came forward, all tire tracks were "accounted for" so there couldn't have been a vehicle. I'm not aware any one in Law Enforcement has made this claim. This would require painstaking efforts to go over every inch of that driveway obtain casts of every tire print then obtaining impressions of every tire from every car that had recently used that driveway. I am not aware that anything like that was done. If it was, they wouldn't have Kevin's tire impressions. They could hardly know that some "mystery print" really belonged to Kevin


I think Joy Baker has contributed more than anyone else towards understanding the case and perhaps ultimately solving it.

 

[Sasquatch321]

I've been following this thread for a while and I have become quite uncomfortable with some posters endlessly "beating the drum" for the "DR did it" meme.

The case against DR boils down to:
1)He lived near the crime scene.
2)He's kind of an odd duck, at least for Stearns County.
3)He was named a POI and a warrant was obtained to search his property(we don't know what the basis of these were but some are still satisfied that the burden of proof is met. Anyone familiar with True Crime knows that innocent people often are named "POI" or have their homes or businesses searched. This usually happens in high profile cases where their is a lot of pressure.
4)DR is the only "name" we have

The claim has been made that one Kevin came forward, all tire tracks were "accounted for" so there couldn't have been a vehicle. I'm not aware any one in Law Enforcement has made this claim. This would require painstaking efforts to go over every inch of that driveway obtain casts of every tire print then obtaining impressions of every tire from every car that had recently used that driveway. I am not aware that anything like that was done. If it was, they wouldn't have Kevin's tire impressions. They could hardly know that some "mystery print" really belonged to Kevin


I think Joy Baker has contributed more than anyone else towards understanding the case and perhaps ultimately solving it.

If you are bringing the case against DR then we at least have to add No. 5

5. No Alibi

 

[human]

I've been following this thread for a while and I have become quite uncomfortable with some posters endlessly "beating the drum" for the "DR did it" meme.

The case against DR boils down to:
1)He lived near the crime scene.
2)He's kind of an odd duck, at least for Stearns County.
3)He was named a POI and a warrant was obtained to search his property(we don't know what the basis of these were but some are still satisfied that the burden of proof is met. Anyone familiar with True Crime knows that innocent people often are named "POI" or have their homes or businesses searched. This usually happens in high profile cases where their is a lot of pressure.
4)DR is the only "name" we have

The claim has been made that one Kevin came forward, all tire tracks were "accounted for" so there couldn't have been a vehicle. I'm not aware any one in Law Enforcement has made this claim. This would require painstaking efforts to go over every inch of that driveway obtain casts of every tire print then obtaining impressions of every tire from every car that had recently used that driveway. I am not aware that anything like that was done. If it was, they wouldn't have Kevin's tire impressions. They could hardly know that some "mystery print" really belonged to Kevin


I think Joy Baker has contributed more than anyone else towards understanding the case and perhaps ultimately solving it.

Why would Kevin say he was there if he wasn't?

How do you know that prints weren't made of the tire tracks? The FBI was there and they do that sort of thing.

ELOC on WS is actually the one that discovered the Paynesville info and other info related to those issues. Too bad he isn't getting the credit.

 

[Sasquatch321]

What year is that photo? I don't doubt he can run, but that does not mean in his 50's he could overpower a 20 yr old college kid. What reason would he have to harm Josh G?

What reason was there to harm Jacob? In Josh G's instance it's the same thing. A random encounter out of nowhere and both have vanished without a trace. The abduction happened 6 miles from DR's farm. With DR being a "poi" in the wetterling case, then that is what is seeding this belief. It certainly raises some question when someone called in the tip of a person running that night. Because of the similarity to each other and the locations it is likely that the same person is responsible. There's typically only one serial killer operating within a 50 mile radius. Of course all other options remain on the table, until these crimes are solved.

 

[ELOCsoul]

Why would Kevin say he was there if he wasn't?

How do you know that prints weren't made of the tire tracks? The FBI was there and they do that sort of thing.

ELOC on WS is actually the one that discovered the Paynesville info and other info related to those issues. Too bad he isn't getting the credit.

No worries - the Paynesville info was found independently at about the same time. I think maybe even JBrown found it as well, we were looking through the Press archives about the same time, inspired by each other's findings. I didn't pursue it much at the time, because the articles indicated those assaults had been investigated by the Wetterling Task Force and no connection was found. Maybe there is a connection after all?

Looking forward to if there is new information in the news story coming up on WCCO. Here is a link to channel 9 story. Note that a dark puffy coat is described. I found information that Trevor discussed Jacob's perp as wearing a big, dark puffy coat awhile back:

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/stor...-investigators-probe-possible-wetterling-link

 

[Jbrown324320]

I am excited that the new info is coming to light in the media to stir up public interest. Human, the Paynesville attack info was on the same article naming DAH at his arrest that I found for you. I don't care who gets credit, but I only care that more concrete information may be found concerning Jacob's abduction. Already, a few people have commented on Joy's blog who may have been a victim and could hopefully provide more clues.

 

[Jbrown324320]

sasquatch, there were a lot more predators operating in the area at the time of Jacob and Josh's disappearances than you think. Several are still in the area but are older and less motivated or mobile. Many had the potential to kill, harm or kidnap. Narrowing down to one person is a disservice to the victims and their families. Yes, usually only one serial killer per 60 miles, but this area had several secrets, several violent predators. It still does.

 

[HEY YOU!]

No worries - the Paynesville info was found independently at about the same time. I think maybe even JBrown found it as well, we were looking through the Press archives about the same time, inspired by each other's findings. I didn't pursue it much at the time, because the articles indicated those assaults had been investigated by the Wetterling Task Force and no connection was found. Maybe there is a connection after all?

Looking forward to if there is new information in the news story coming up on WCCO. Here is a link to channel 9 story. Note that a dark puffy coat is described. I found information that Trevor discussed Jacob's perp as wearing a big, dark puffy coat awhile back:

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/stor...-investigators-probe-possible-wetterling-link

Who would have access a black puffy winter coat and black pantyhose at the last minute? This crime was committed within a 45 minute window from when boys left their home to the abduction on an unseasonably warm night.

Keep in mind that no cars passed them so the perp KNEW the boys were headed back that way. If you assume it was someone who saw them at the store, how did they know where they were going unless they saw them leave to begin with. The street to their neighborhood is one way in and out.

 

[Jbrown324320]

no cars passed them that we know of. The boys may have been too afraid to remember specific details.
The head covering hasn't been 100% concluded as a ski mask or nylons. If it was a ski mask and puffy coat, it could be in anyone's back seat or trunk. This is MN.

I still believe a vehicle was used since the dogs lost Jacob's trail halfway up the driveway. We aren't chasing ghostly links, we are following real clues.

 

[Sasquatch321]

sasquatch, there were a lot more predators operating in the area at the time of Jacob and Josh's disappearances than you think. Several are still in the area but are older and less motivated or mobile. Many had the potential to kill, harm or kidnap. Narrowing down to one person is a disservice to the victims and their families. Yes, usually only one serial killer per 60 miles, but this area had several secrets, several violent predators. It still does.

All of whom have been extensively checked out by the fbi, I'd assume. They gave us DR as a POI, surely if someone else in the area seemed at all capable we would know their name too.

 

[Jbrown324320]

I don't mind if we look at DR, as he is a POI, but I do mind if we accuse him with no actual evidence. Don't assume anything. The FBI checked out hundreds of people. Chances are they could have missed something. Plus, I am not sure who named DR as a POI. I believe it was Stearns County investigators. I believe the FBI has pulled all their people off the case.

 

[Sasquatch321]

I don't mind if we look at DR, as he is a POI, but I do mind if we accuse him with no actual evidence. Don't assume anything. The FBI checked out hundreds of people. Chances are they could have missed something.

Everybody is trying to find out for themselves what happened. Through research and facts you may lean towards a suspect, and that is ok. That doesn't mean we can't believe other facts that are brought forward. The dark puffy coat is interesting and something we should have known 24 years ago.

 

[cGorg]

IMO, it isn't "obvious" because it all makes sense that it could have been DR until you try to imagine what DR would have done AFTER he had Jacob (if he had indeed taken him.)

1. Knock Jacob over the head and stick him in his basement or an outbuilding and hope the cops wouldn't come and search?
2. Run holding Jacob and hide him somewhere on his land?

It just doesn't seem possible to me. He had no way of knowing LE would skip so many vital steps because they were concentrating on Jacob having been taken in a car. (Even though he was the one who said there was a car.) I feel, being intelligent, he would have assumed cops would search his home and his land, since it happened at the end of his driveway.

I do think there were some stories made up (or exaggerated) by DR about earlier cars flying through his yard, because tracks did not prove that. I agree that a car that drove fast through his yard in the afternoon would have had nothing to do with an abduction later that night anyway.

I think that rather than having abducted Jacob himself, he has an inkling who did take him, and thus the changing stories, the vagueness about cars and "what I saw" as he tries (IMO) to prevent this other person from being looked at.

Early reports from detectives, FBI and media on the case did NOT mention anything but DR having seen one small dark car in his driveway. These other cars were never mentioned by DR until after 2003/04 when Kevin came forward with his story of having been in DR's driveway. (You can search all through any reports that have been made public and news articles or interviews from 1989 to 2003 for proof of this - the extra cars were never mentioned until after Kevin's story was made public.)

I do NOT feel Jacob's and Josh's (or the Reker girls) cases are connected. My own opinion on Josh G. is that he was taken by someone from the abbey. As Trino stated, the bloodhounds tracked Josh's scent to the abbey, and then LE was not allowed inside. The Reker girls have been strongly tied to Eckroth (in our who's who) and someone who knew Mary's bf. I still think there is a possibility that Jacob's and Jared's cases could be connected somehow.

(BBM) That all makes sense except if DR is covering for someone in Jacob's case, then how did that someone commit this crime? Logistically speaking. That someone would have had to get Jacob out of there somehow. I can imagine a scenario but it would involve a vehicle so as to explain the end of Jacob's scent.

 

[cGorg]

no cars passed them that we know of. The boys may have been too afraid to remember specific details.
The head covering hasn't been 100% concluded as a ski mask or nylons. If it was a ski mask and puffy coat, it could be in anyone's back seat or trunk. This is MN.

I still believe a vehicle was used since the dogs lost Jacob's trail halfway up the driveway. We aren't chasing ghostly links, we are following real clues.

I agree....good to keep the possibility open. We know from previous newspaper articles that several cars passed the boys on the way to TT and also from eyewitness accounts that there were suspicious cars that were parked on 16th in the evenings prior to Jacob's abduction. And who's to say the perp wasn't parked in a vehicle on 16th and simply watched the boys come up the road-he could have easily ducked down in his vehicle as the boys passed by on to TT and he would have known where they came from. Not saying this is what happened, just saying w/o access to LE's info, it's worth keeping a wide scope on the information that is available.

 

[Jbrown324320]

cgorg, let me throw this scenario out there- the car was parked somewhere in DR's driveway, and they sped out the driveway and up 16th towards tom thumb and onto the highway. they went fast and the boys didn't look back until they were running after a several minutes. that gave the perpetrator time to drive up 16th and onto the highway. Maybe they parked a third of the way up the driveway and by the time police actually looked at the tracks DR or Kevin may have driven over them. Plausible?

 

[Sasquatch321]

"Eighteen months after Jacob’s disappearance a man was arrested for burglary in St. Cloud, Minnesota. Upon running a criminal background check, law enforcement officials discovered that the man was a previously convicted sex offender. Further, the St. Joseph police learned that in October, 1989 the man had lived closer to Jacob’s abduction site than did the Wetterling family; yet, local police had not been aware of his presence within the community. In fact, unbeknownst to local police at the time of Jacob’s disappearance, there were halfway houses in the St. Joseph area that housed sex offenders upon their release from prison. This information was disconcerting because during the search it was commonly assumed that Jacob’s kidnapper had attempted similar behavior in the past. The St. Joseph police lamented that prior knowledge of the presence of these previously convicted sex offenders may have prevented Jacob’s abduction in the first place." St. Autumn

Other leads like this are interesting but fail to turn into anything, obviously they were checked out and exhausted.

 

[human]

defending or accusing DR really gets us no where as people all have their own experiences as to why they may make the judgment that they do. For instance, if one knows of someone who is falsely accused, then that person jumps to the defense of almost anyone.

What I am more concerned with is things such as the bloody trunk. Did a cadaver dog hit on it? If so, that is really really something.

Does anyone know anything about that? Or how about the umbrella stand? Why take that?

Why was LE able to get a search warrant for the house after they searched the grounds and outer buildings?

Were the perp's footprints at the scene?

 

[human]

cgorg, let me throw this scenario out there- the car was parked somewhere in DR's driveway, and they sped out the driveway and up 16th towards tom thumb and onto the highway. they went fast and the boys didn't look back until they were running after a several minutes. that gave the perpetrator time to drive up 16th and onto the highway. Maybe they parked a third of the way up the driveway and by the time police actually looked at the tracks DR or Kevin may have driven over them. Plausible?

The best way for you to find that out is to try and experiment. You can do it in the daytime or at night.

If you have access to a dirt road, try driving over the tire tracks. You can make them yourself if there are none.

If that is not available, get your tires wet and drive on a road. Then try to drive over those same tracks.

 

[human]

I agree....good to keep the possibility open. We know from previous newspaper articles that several cars passed the boys on the way to TT and also from eyewitness accounts that there were suspicious cars that were parked on 16th in the evenings prior to Jacob's abduction. And who's to say the perp wasn't parked in a vehicle on 16th and simply watched the boys come up the road-he could have easily ducked down in his vehicle as the boys passed by on to TT and he would have known where they came from. Not saying this is what happened, just saying w/o access to LE's info, it's worth keeping a wide scope on the information that is available.

Someone needs to do an experiment. Park on 16th at night and see how far down the road you can see.

Park at different locations. Of course, there is far more light nowadays because of the increase in homes.

I am more interested in if the road is hilly or curvy and you cannot see things in the distance