Motive For Murder

[eyes4crime]

when CLARK enters same room short time later. He ends up killing her.

then the rest of the moving around is him trying to do whatever killers do after they kill, like cover it up.

Guess that's not my point...don't you get the feeling of how alone she is down there. How precise he is in finding her, following her, and stuffing her body away? When I was doing that part of the time-line I got the chills. I began to think about how she must have felt down there in a space that was soundproof and nobody could hear her screaming. Yikes!! On AC tonight, a student in the lab said she was in with him on Friday night - he was cool, calm, and collected. she/he never would have guessed he was the murderer. How could he go to work in the same lab knowing Annie was stuffed in the wall and is still there? How sick is that?

 

[eyes4crime]

I have a sinking feeling that all of the people with complex and involved theories regarding sexual/stalker motives are going to be let down tremendously when this all pans out (I was one of these people initially). My bet is he simply has a type of elevated Bipolar Disorder coupled with Intermitten Explosive Disorder - or a type of PTSD - and something as simple as an univited sound can enrage him beyond comprehension. He probably doesn't even know what happened. He 'woke up' and she was dead. This in no way excuses his behavior or culpability, of course. There is no 'insanity' plea that recognizes any of these disorders.

Granted we don't know any facts right now, but I suspect whatever they are will leave us equally perplexed and incredibly frustrated.

I think you are right - it could be something very simple. But if PTSD, bipolar, intermittent explosive disorder - wouldn't that have manifested in previous behavior with other students in the lab. A history so to speak. Or are you suggesting the illness is new?

 

[eyes4crime]

eyes4 - you are talking premeditation. is that what you think?

Yes! I believe this is a horrendous murder, not for the death penalty part, I'm not an advocate of the DP, but because I believe Clark knew exactly what he was doing in dragging Annie to the lab on a most busy day for her. mho

 

[Tonto]

I think you are right - it could be something very simple. But if PTSD, bipolar, intermittent explosive disorder - wouldn't that have manifested in previous behavior with other students in the lab. A history so to speak. Or are you suggesting the illness is new?

Not necessarily that the condition is new, but that it surfaces when he is on the brink of losing situational control - 'officious' descriptor suggests this personality trait as does previous aggression towards a female(s). However, my bet is that in 99.99% of these situations he is in a position of physical, emotional, and/or intellectual inferiority and subsequently backs down. With a 4'11 fiesty firecracker, however, sadly not so much.

 

[eyes4crime]

Not necessarily that the condition is new, but that it surfaces when he is on the brink of losing situational control - 'officious' descriptor suggests this personality trait as does previous aggression towards a female(s). However, my bet is that in 99.99% of these situations he is in a position of physical, emotional, and/or intellectual inferiority and subsequently backs down. With a 4'11 fiesty firecracker, however, sadly not so much.

You might be right. Too bad Clark didn't have a full blown panic attack in dealing little fiesty, firecracker pint-sized Annie - maybe she could have escaped.

 

[Tonto]

You might be right. Too bad Clark didn't have a full blown panic attack in dealing little fiesty, firecracker pint-sized Annie - maybe she could have escaped.

Indeed. Of course, it hurts her family and friends tremendously for their personal loss, but it also indirectly affects each of us as the world may have lost one life that would've probably saved tens of thousands.

Satan doesn't often fight fair.

 

[Trino]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/18/yale.killing.arrest/index.html

Work place violence. LE states the murder was not domestic violence, although LE hasn't said exactly what happened to set him off.

 

[Miss_Scarlett]

There does appear to be something amiss about the RC/JH relationship. I know that there are men and women who infer to their significant other that someone is flirting with them or even fully involved with them romantically and/or sexually, and not only is it entirely a fabrication, the accused would be oblivious to any reason he/she would be the topic of the couple's conversation. Apparently, the provoking of jealousy and insecurity and the ensuing argument feeds the codependency on which the couple's relationship is based. The root issue, of course, is much deeper and more twisted than romance or affection. Perhaps, RC himself was "leaking" the stories of the lab romance(s) that so inflamed JH. If there was a secret (even to Annie!) romance with her, it would have taken a humiliatingly direct hit when Annie announced plans to marry her Mr. Wonderful, Mr. Right and been very grating to a psychopathic personality.

I very much agree. My father's current wife (I mention in the thread about women who kill) "received" an anonymous note on her car telling her things like how much the other person always loved her. She made such a big deal about this in front of my father who is very much the jealous type. I didn't believe her (just don't find her trustworthy) and thought at the time that she was trying to provoke his jealousy. After all, if he becomes distant he might leave, but make him jealous and he's "back."

 

[Miss_Scarlett]

This may be true, porkchop, but we must consider history. RC has a history of impulsive violence. Annie's history shows nothing of the sort.

To boot, I don't believe she would've achieved all she had and been put into a trusted position as she was if she'd demonstrated impulsive violence, or even a tendency toward it. Sure, people bow to intimidation all the time, but to a 4'11", 90-lb. Asian female? I wouldn't think so.

I'm not saying that she did this at all, but I just wanted to point out that they knew nothing of his history before all of this either. Just pointing it out to bring light again to the fact that just because someone doesn't have a record doesn't mean they haven't done things that warrant them.

 

[Miss_Scarlett]

It does seem like a stretch but we've heard from so many people that she was 'fiesty' and had a personality much bigger than her physical size.

That was my point about him perhaps having an expectation that she'd be cute and sweet because that's how she looks. Many other women could have the same personality, but he wouldn't have cared simply because he wasn't interested in them and wouldn't expect them to have a personality contrary to the stereotype associated with their appearance.

 

[Miss_Scarlett]

Unfortunately, this is a common attitude for the "higher level" staff in the lab. We have postdocs (people with PhDs who don't have their own lab yet) who refuse to do basic science experiements because that's "a tech's job". We even have PIs (the boss) talk down to techs because they think they aren't as good as the PI because they "only" have a bachelors or masters degree. They think they are better than everyone who doesn't hold a PhD. People in labs need to realize that without the techs (of all classes and in all departments), the work couldn't get done.

At a point isn't that just life? I wish I'd done more of the "that isn't my job" when I was younger. I think I was expected to do things because I was female that they would not have expected my male workers to do. An it's very possible that someone working in a lab who is not a student there might have (I'm not saying all would) a bigger chip on his shoulder working with the students who are achieving so much and are the same age?

 

[Labrat]

Yes! I believe this is a horrendous murder, not for the death penalty part, I'm not an advocate of the DP, but because I believe Clark knew exactly what he was doing in dragging Annie to the lab on a most busy day for her. mho

He might not have known it was a busy day for her. The animal techs in my rooms don't know anything about my personal life.

 

[Miss_Scarlett]

I missed the documentation that RC has a history of impulsive violence.

I did see a report (article) where a police report was obtained and that a 16 yr old girl made took a complaint out on him. (She has since spoken to the media).

The complaint was not followed through (they did go tell him to leave her alone or they would arrest him IIRC), even though when the complaint was described by the reporter it was implied that a rape had occurred and I don't understand how the state did not follow through on rape charges (even without the consent of the victim to bring forth charges)...perhaps CT has statutes that are different.

Then I've seen comments (from the school, which of course must be taken with a grain of salt because of who made them and why they would make them, such as CYA on behalf of school liability in this murder) that he didn't have anything on his work record that would show a predispostion to crime.

At any rate, I have only seen one previous complaint (no court cases of conviction for violence) and one speeding ticket.

Did I miss something huge here?

When we look at offenders many times they do have a history that is revealed once the "onion is peeled" (a phrase I like to use). I just wondered if I had missed it being reported.

Does a lack of documented violence make him any less a murderer? No. But it could go to motive, if we have someone here that doesn't really have an extensive history we so often see of certain behavoirs that many offenders exhibit before they get to the act of committing murder.

That's all I'm asking about.

They probably didn't try to prosecute since date rape is hard to prove and I think it was not only after the fact when she reported it (after the breakup), but I read one report that she continued the relationship after the alleged rape. I'm not saying he didn't force himself on her. Girls get into and stay in abusive relationships sometimes. But I think the DA would have found it nearly impossible to prove.

 

[Miss_Scarlett]

She may not be the physical agressor but she could have been the verbal agressor which escalated the meeting into physical violence. She's been made to look like a perfect person but remember she teased her friend for not having a butt even to the point of giving her undies with built in butt pads and would send a picture of her butt to the dean of admissions at Princeton after being turned down. It all seems in fun but shows she is capable of saying and doing things that some people may not take lightly. No matter what, RC lost it and is still responsible for his actions.

Let this be a lesson: treat everyone with respect and watch your words or it may come back to haunt you. No one deserves to die from workplace anger.

That's pretty freaky. Where did you read about the photos to Princeton?

 

[Waddles]

Guess that's not my point...don't you get the feeling of how alone she is down there. How precise he is in finding her, following her, and stuffing her body away? When I was doing that part of the time-line I got the chills. I began to think about how she must have felt down there in a space that was soundproof and nobody could hear her screaming. Yikes!! On AC tonight, a student in the lab said she was in with him on Friday night - he was cool, calm, and collected. she/he never would have guessed he was the murderer. How could he go to work in the same lab knowing Annie was stuffed in the wall and is still there? How sick is that?

I so agree with you but I imagine he was in complete denial like in a dream state, survival mode took over but yes it is so so sick-he would have still been thinking all the time-none of you have any idea I have a body stashed around the corner while you're all out looking for her

 

[Labrat]

At a point isn't that just life? I wish I'd done more of the "that isn't my job" when I was younger. I think I was expected to do things because I was female that they would not have expected my male workers to do. An it's very possible that someone working in a lab who is not a student there might have (I'm not saying all would) a bigger chip on his shoulder working with the students who are achieving so much and are the same age?

Well, yes and no. I started out as a lab tech so I know what Missy is talking about. I had a full slate of work assigned to me by the PI and would still have grad students and post docs in the lab try to get me to do the experiments that they were supposed to be doing themselves. I fell for it because I was young and naive. I learned better when the PI got angry because I couldn't keep up with the work he assigned me. He told me I worked for him, not for them. They'd still try it, though.

 

[maggieo]

"Workplace violence" isn't a motive, though. It's just a description: a violent act in the workplace. It doesn't explain what was going on inside this guy. When men kill women at work, it usually seems to be a "spurned lover" situation.

But if there continues to be no evidence for any kind of sexual motivation, then I'd have to go next to some kind of mental illness, though you'd expect to see a slow progression of incidents. You know, first he screams at someone, then he slaps someone, etc. But "officious" is about as negative as anyone has described him.

My current pet theory is that he was depressed or anxious and taking medication, and recently switched kinds or increased/decreased dosages. Or stopped taking it altogether. That can cause violent episodes, though it usually it ends in suicide, not homicide.

 

[Waddles]

"Workplace violence" isn't a motive, though. It's just a description: a violent act in the workplace. It doesn't explain what was going on inside this guy. When men kill women at work, it usually seems to be a "spurned lover" situation.

But if there continues to be no evidence for any kind of sexual motivation, then I'd have to go next to some kind of mental illness, though you'd expect to see a slow progression of incidents. You know, first he screams at someone, then he slaps someone, etc. But "officious" is about as negative as anyone has described him.

My current pet theory is that he was depressed or anxious and taking medication, and recently switched kinds or increased/decreased dosages. Or stopped taking it altogether. That can cause violent episodes, though it usually it ends in suicide, not homicide.

Or maybe he should have been on medication but was never diagnosed?

 

[f_stills]

The New York Daily News says investigators theorize Le was distracted because of her upcoming wedding and research workload, and was not as serious and conciliatory to Clark as he would have liked in regards to lab protocol.

Investigators believe she may have responded to Clark with something like, "Yeah, I'll get to it, thanks. I'm busy now."

A guy such as Clark could have mistaken distracted for dismissive.

And what he took for dismissive may have been harder for him to take from a young, smart, diminutive woman.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_..._a_pen_may_put_creep_in_prison_for_keeps.html

 

[maggieo]

Or maybe he should have been on medication but was never diagnosed?

Maybe, but if untreated mental illness results in violence, it's usually only after a long, long progression of increasing incidents. There are signs -- and who knows, maybe this guy had a history we're not hearing about.

But I think the medication-switch theory explains how a mostly average guy could suddenly flip out in such a spectacular fashion.

Just a theory, of course!!