NC - 12-year-old dies at Trails Carolina wilderness therapy camp, Lake Toxaway, February 2024

[borndem]

And what parent would pay someone to do so?.

I'm not against parents trying to find something that works to help their child, of course not. But getting them dragged away from their home by two grown men like criminals is not that, and any 'programme' that promotes this as the first step is not the one that is going to save your child from themselves.

I can't imagine the trauma a child would feel being ripped away like that, how scared and forsaken they would feel.
How is tearing them down to this level a precursor for building self esteem?.

Makes no sense to me.

JMO.

Good post, Rolypolyoly.
What's to keep the youngster from thinking he is being arrested by LE? (Please, I am not at all linking this horror to any LE anywhere in the US.)
If I were the child/youth, I would certainly think I was being taken to jail and being put behind bars. And if I were already paranoid, or void of any self esteem, or both, I might try to end my life. What in my mind would make me be hopeful of anything?

 

[ChatteringBirds]

What can possibly push parents to even consider this for a child?

I assume situations like repeated criminal behaviors, violent behaviors, sneaking out at all hours and coming home whenever, repeatedly running away, persistent drug use, etc.
And nothing else the parents do actually helps. JMO.

(Check out some parents of teenager support groups on social media and see what some are experiencing! Very eye-opening.)

And I don't write this to judge the parents nor the teens. I just think the parents feel desperate to help whatever their situation may be.

 

[Lilibet]

I assume situations like repeated criminal behaviors, violent behaviors, sneaking out at all hours and coming home whenever, repeatedly running away, persistent drug use, etc.
And nothing else the parents do actually helps. JMO.

(Check out some parents of teenager support groups on social media and see what some are experiencing! Very eye-opening.)

And I don't write this to judge the parents nor the teens. I just think the parents feel desperate to help whatever their situation may be.

In addition, the parents may be trying to protect younger children in the family. It’s a no-win situation for everyone.

jmo

 

[imstilla.grandma]

In a rare public statement from law enforcement, the sheriff’s office was critical of help it was receiving from Trails Carolina.

“Trails Carolina Camp has not completely cooperated with the investigation,” the sheriff’s press release said.

“Trails staff initiated life-saving efforts and called EMS and the sheriff, and our staff have fully cooperated with the local law enforcement’s investigation, voluntarily presenting themselves for interviews with law enforcement and other related public agencies,” a Trails Carolina statement said. “Any assertion to the contrary is false, reckless and defamatory.”

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article285275287.html

 

[HmmMysterious]

In a rare public statement from law enforcement, the sheriff’s office was critical of help it was receiving from Trails Carolina.

“Trails Carolina Camp has not completely cooperated with the investigation,” the sheriff’s press release said.

“Trails staff initiated life-saving efforts and called EMS and the sheriff, and our staff have fully cooperated with the local law enforcement’s investigation, voluntarily presenting themselves for interviews with law enforcement and other related public agencies,” a Trails Carolina statement said. “Any assertion to the contrary is false, reckless and defamatory.”

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article285275287.html

Wow, the audacity of this camp smh

 

[charminglane]

How desperate parents must be to choose to do this and to pay this amount of money.

WHAT are these children doing. What are the backgrounds?

Having raised only one fairly "good" child, I can't even imagine behavior that would cause a parent to consider such a camp. Do any of the interviews/stories focus on discussion of what might lead parents to make this horrifying decision. Because surely, parents are torn apart to have reached this point. . .

What do kids who have been sent to these camps acknowledge they did that led their parents to even consider such an extreme measure? Will they discuss/ are they capable of discussing their own behavior in any rational way?

What can possibly push parents to even consider this for a child?

Escalation of defiant behavior. Poor school record. Beating up their parents.
This happened across the street from me.
Teens were "kidnapped" to therapeutic schools in Utah at 14.
They came home as productive citizens with more self awareness, self soothing strategies, diplomas, respect for their families, and drug-free in October when they turned 18.
So far, so good.
I know that success can be rare and that there is potential for relapse.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

How desperate parents must be to choose to do this and to pay this amount of money.

WHAT are these children doing. What are the backgrounds?

Having raised only one fairly "good" child, I can't even imagine behavior that would cause a parent to consider such a camp. Do any of the interviews/stories focus on discussion of what might lead parents to make this horrifying decision. Because surely, parents are torn apart to have reached this point. . .

What do kids who have been sent to these camps acknowledge they did that led their parents to even consider such an extreme measure? Will they discuss/ are they capable of discussing their own behavior in any rational way?

What can possibly push parents to even consider this for a child?

I'm not a fan of rationalizing these camps. They're totally abusive, IMO. I'll allow that some parents are scammed and don't know any better, but IMO, I wouldn't excuse a knowing parent agreeing to intentionally traumatizing their child anymore than I would excuse them for hitting them.

JMO

 

[Rolypolyoly]

In a rare public statement from law enforcement, the sheriff’s office was critical of help it was receiving from Trails Carolina.

“Trails Carolina Camp has not completely cooperated with the investigation,” the sheriff’s press release said.

“Trails staff initiated life-saving efforts and called EMS and the sheriff, and our staff have fully cooperated with the local law enforcement’s investigation, voluntarily presenting themselves for interviews with law enforcement and other related public agencies,” a Trails Carolina statement said. “Any assertion to the contrary is false, reckless and defamatory.”

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article285275287.html

Speculation on my part is that possibly they didn't allow the children at the scene to be interviewed without parental consent.
Not fact, just guessing.

 

[airportwoman]

*This may be an unpopular thought....
I can understand your perspective 100% but I will say that I know people who have done exactly this. Their kids were out of control using all kinds of drugs, weapons and doing behavior that would have ended up killing them. We can all recognize the trauma associated with taking kids in the middle of the night. That said, until one is in the same situation with the same fears and possibly violent destructive behavior with nowhere else to turn, the automatic rush to judgment is important to temper. I work with young people who have varying degrees of mental illness. One of my clients has been waiting for psychiatric help for four months, paraded to ERs because there is no other option--- held in the ER for 72 hours, medicated beyond belief, and released. I have violent clients who are in a revolving juvenile arrests and never getting behavioral health. As a country, the US does not have what it needs to combat the many factors that are derailing youth. Every day I come home from work, I thank my stars that I don't have kids who have these issues and say a little prayer for my clients who may or may not make it to adulthood.

When I was a teenager ca. 1980, I heard about parents threatening to "send their kids to Wisconsin" and in fact knew of two people whose parents did exactly that; apparently, this was a boarding school out in the country that was supposed to treat them. How well it worked, I have no idea.

One of the people who was threatened with this was a friend of mine whose new mid-teen identity involved copping an attitude and "being brutally honest" to a point where she lost multiple jobs, was kicked out of school activities, and was even asked to leave a church. And lost all her friends in the process, not surprisingly.

 

[airportwoman]

Escalation of defiant behavior. Poor school record. Beating up their parents.
This happened across the street from me.
Teens were "kidnapped" to therapeutic schools in Utah at 14.
They came home as productive citizens with more self awareness, self soothing strategies, diplomas, respect for their families, and drug-free in October when they turned 18.
So far, so good.
I know that success can be rare and that there is potential for relapse.

Multiple kids from the same family? Yeah, something had to be wrong with the parents.

Many kids act out when they've been abused in some way, or are experiencing other things they can't verbalize.

 

[MsMarple]

In a rare public statement from law enforcement, the sheriff’s office was critical of help it was receiving from Trails Carolina.

“Trails Carolina Camp has not completely cooperated with the investigation,” the sheriff’s press release said.

“Trails staff initiated life-saving efforts and called EMS and the sheriff, and our staff have fully cooperated with the local law enforcement’s investigation, voluntarily presenting themselves for interviews with law enforcement and other related public agencies,” a Trails Carolina statement said. “Any assertion to the contrary is false, reckless and defamatory.”

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article285275287.html

From your link:

State inspectors have cited Trails Carolinas for deficiencies on at least four occasions since 2019. In the most recent list of findings, issued in June 2023, DHHS inspectors said that program staff physically restrained participants on more than two dozen occasions in a three-month period. Two children reported they suffered minor injuries when staff members restrained them.

State inspectors also determined that the program failed to get the state’s approval for the training it provided to staff on how to use physical restraints.

Read more at: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article285275287.html#storylink=cpy

“Untrained on how to use physical restraints.” WTH? Sketchy as all get out.

Like I said earlier, these camps/schools often hire untrained, unqualified people as counselors and other adjunct employees. Poor background checks sometimes lets felons sneak through the gap and care for the kids.

OMO but DHHS needs a day of reckoning; this crap has been going on for decades and not just in NC. Is it simply cheaper for these institutions to just pay the fines and go on their way?

Restaurants get shut down when rats are found in the kitchen. What about human rats? SMH.
MOO

 

[charminglane]

Multiple kids from the same family? Yeah, something had to be wrong with the parents.

Many kids act out when they've been abused in some way, or are experiencing other things they can't verbalize.

Adopted twins.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Their kids were out of control using all kinds of drugs, weapons and doing behavior that would have ended up killing them. We can all recognize the trauma associated with taking kids in the middle of the night. That said, until one is in the same situation with the same fears and possibly violent destructive behavior with nowhere else to turn, the automatic rush to judgment is important to temper. I work with young people who have varying degrees of mental illness. One of my clients has been waiting for psychiatric help for four months, paraded to ERs because there is no other option--- held in the ER for 72 hours, medicated beyond belief, and released. I have violent clients who are in a revolving juvenile arrests and never getting behavioral health. As a country, the US does not have what it needs to combat the many factors that are derailing youth. Every day I come home from work, I thank my stars that I don't have kids who have these issues and say a little prayer for my clients who may or may not make it to adulthood.

I assume situations like repeated criminal behaviors, violent behaviors, sneaking out at all hours and coming home whenever, repeatedly running away, persistent drug use, etc.
And nothing else the parents do actually helps. JMO.

(Check out some parents of teenager support groups on social media and see what some are experiencing! Very eye-opening.)

And I don't write this to judge the parents nor the teens. I just think the parents feel desperate to help whatever their situation may be.

Very enlightening. Thanks. These behaviors can injure or kill the teen involved, or perhaps parents and siblings. To save lives, you do what you have to do. The pain involved in these situations must be unbearable for everyone . . . .

 

[RickshawFan]

Camping for the weekend? or maybe schools have their winter break then?

IME it would be extended stay.

It's also February. Imagine how cold. Not a good time to be in the wilderness pretty much anywhere. I wonder if they were staying at a summer camp facility on that lake. How would they be sleeping?

I'm open-minded about whether this particular camp is beneficial, but getting kidnapped by 2 men is horrific. Anyone know if the parents could be held for conspiracy to kidnap (or whatever it's called?)?

Later: now I've looked at the article ^^^^, and I'm creeped out. Plus the parents spend $30,000 in 2015 for a 3-month stint, and the staff gets minimum wage? What's with that?

 

[LadyL]

Paris Hilton was a victim of one of these places and was sexually assaulted among other horrors.

'I'm still processing the trauma': Paris Hilton advocates for federal law to end institutional child abuse

Paris Hilton: I'm joining other survivors on Capitol Hill this week to continue educating lawmakers about how bad the troubled teen industry is.

www.usatoday.com

'Hell Camp': Paris Hilton and the Troubled Teen Industry's Abuse Epidemic

Netflix documentary ‘Hell Camp: Teen Nightmare’ shines a light on the systemic abuse within youth treatment centers and wilderness programs.

www.rollingstone.com

 

[LadyL]

And what parent would pay someone to do so?.

I'm not against parents trying to find something that works to help their child, of course not. But getting them dragged away from their home by two grown men like criminals is not that, and any 'programme' that promotes this as the first step is not the one that is going to save your child from themselves.

I can't imagine the trauma a child would feel being ripped away like that, how scared and forsaken they would feel.
How is tearing them down to this level a precursor for building self esteem?.

Makes no sense to me.

JMO.

I think they just are desperate and have tried so many things for so long. They are tricked into thinking it's their only choice.

 

[LadyL]

But if parents pay them to take their child, if they give their permission, how are they not complicit if something happens to a child because of these actions? How could they sue if a child took their own life because of such treatment?.

Hypothetically speaking?.

I guess they would have to prove that the camp didn't disclose their procedures honestly?

 

[Rolypolyoly]

From your link:

State inspectors have cited Trails Carolinas for deficiencies on at least four occasions since 2019. In the most recent list of findings, issued in June 2023, DHHS inspectors said that program staff physically restrained participants on more than two dozen occasions in a three-month period. Two children reported they suffered minor injuries when staff members restrained them.

State inspectors also determined that the program failed to get the state’s approval for the training it provided to staff on how to use physical restraints.

Read more at: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article285275287.html#storylink=cpy

“Untrained on how to use physical restraints.” WTH? Sketchy as all get out.

Like I said earlier, these camps/schools often hire untrained, unqualified people as counselors and other adjunct employees. Poor background checks sometimes lets felons sneak through the gap and care for the kids.

OMO but DHHS needs a day of reckoning; this crap has been going on for decades and not just in NC. Is it simply cheaper for these institutions to just pay the fines and go on their way?

Restaurants get shut down when rats are found in the kitchen. What about human rats? SMH.
MOO

And this is reportedly one of the 'good' camps according to various comments around the net, though I'm not sure this child, or Alec Lansing would agree, so I don't want to imagine what the bad ones are like!

 

[LadyL]

Escalation of defiant behavior. Poor school record. Beating up their parents.
This happened across the street from me.
Teens were "kidnapped" to therapeutic schools in Utah at 14.
They came home as productive citizens with more self awareness, self soothing strategies, diplomas, respect for their families, and drug-free in October when they turned 18.
So far, so good.
I know that success can be rare and that there is potential for relapse.

were they there for 4 years?

 

[charminglane]

were they there for 4 years?

Yes.
As they improved, their parents would visit and take them out with them for weekends.
It was dire straights until they left.
I'm a former teacher. I respect all of the patience, time, grace, trust, and let's face it-money the lengths their parents went to was all done with much discussion, deep thought, and consultation with professionals.
The greatest motivator was the unconditional love.