NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female, 23-33, & 3 Children, under 11, Nov'85 & May'00 #3

[cvaldez1975]

@MarziPanda - Don't forget the turkey baster. I saw a talk show in the 70s or 80s where one sister agreed to be inseminated with her brother in law's sperm so the other sister and her husband could have a baby. They used a turkey baster for conception, totally outside the medical community. I know this was probably rare, but I'm thinking odd ball scenarios like this happened, too. I'm thinking this child would be told of it's parentage because it was a national TV show.

There's a man in my area who fathered 20+ children with about 15 women. One of my friend's mothers had 2 children with him because she didn't want the first one to be alone, so she went back for another one -while he was still married to his first wife. I truly think some women were using him as a free walking sperm donor clinic, it certainly wasn't for any child support, as he was pretty much tapped out by the first 5 or so baby mamas.

a lesbian couple i know used a baster from their gay friend and he is also in the childs life. it happens.

 

[folieadeuxnola]

i have a sister and brother, too. i knew about them but didnt meet them until 2016.

I have a brother and sister they don't know about me but I know about them from my maternal side. There is another brother out there somewhere I hope one day to find him

 

[folieadeuxnola]

**Bumping for MC**

 

[Alleykins]

Does anyone have any updates on the MC's genealogy research?
Does anyone know of anywhere I can go and find updates, like private groups or other places I should or could be looking, but don't know about?
I would love to compare notes to see if I'm spinning my wheels or actually doing this somewhat right.
TIA!

 

[onceuponadecember]

Although the main discussion is on the genealogy of MC Rasmussen, I think we should focus more on establishing when they died. I believe that with the use of known facts and some basic historical research skills, we can determine a probable death date range. We know the following facts:

• Disappeared c. November 23, 1978
• Sarah was 1-3 at death (born 13 December 1977)
• All four victims died before November 26, 1981
• Isotopes suggest they had been in New Hampshire for 3 weeks to 2 months prior to their deaths
• Unidentified MC born c. 1976 and aged 2-4 when killed
• Likely went to NH within weeks of LC with Marlyse's family

So what can we conclude with these facts? The group probably died sometime between December 14, 1978 and February 28, 1979, probably closer to the 28 February date IMO.

 

[Alleykins]

Although the main discussion is on the genealogy of MC Rasmussen, I think we should focus more on establishing when they died. I believe that with the use of known facts and some basic historical research skills, we can determine a probable death date range. We know the following facts:

• Disappeared c. November 23, 1978
• Sarah was 1-3 at death (born 13 December 1977)
• All four victims died before November 26, 1981
• Isotopes suggest they had been in New Hampshire for 3 weeks to 2 months prior to their deaths
• Unidentified MC born c. 1976 and aged 2-4 when killed
• Likely went to NH within weeks of LC with Marlyse's family

So what can we conclude with these facts? The group probably died sometime between December 14, 1978 and February 28, 1979, probably closer to the 28 February date IMO.

Isotopes also show Marlyse and her daughters lived in a more northern climate than NH 3-7 months prior to their deaths. To me, this means there's a probability they didn't go immediately or directly from CA to NH, but, instead, stopped somewhere in between, a place fitting these isotope result. Though I was never able to confirm it with the NH AG's office, I suspect that 3-7 month "layover" was in the MC's isotope result area, when she might have ended up with TPR. Adding this to the timeline pushes their estimated TOD further out.
Plus, there's a chance the Elizabeth who signed for TPR's letter was Marlyse, which would put the TOD into mid-1980 sometime, or later.
Based on those two pieces of information, I believe they were killed summer of 1980.

 

[Stephen2016]

Isotopes also show Marlyse and her daughters lived in a more northern climate than NH 3-7 months prior to their deaths. To me, this means there's a probability they didn't go immediately or directly from CA to NH, but, instead, stopped somewhere in between, a place fitting these isotope result. Though I was never able to confirm it with the NH AG's office, I suspect that 3-7 month "layover" was in the MC's isotope result area, when she might have ended up with TPR. Adding this to the timeline pushes their estimated TOD further out.
Plus, there's a chance the Elizabeth who signed for TPR's letter was Marlyse, which would put the TOD into mid-1980 sometime, or later.
Based on those two pieces of information, I believe they were killed summer of 1980.

Did they ever say why they were so well preserved in 1985. The police officer 1st on the scene mentioned that he saw a face looking up at him. 5 yrs or so in a barrel like that you would think there would of been more decomposing.

 

[onceuponadecember]

Isotopes also show Marlyse and her daughters lived in a more northern climate than NH 3-7 months prior to their deaths. To me, this means there's a probability they didn't go immediately or directly from CA to NH, but, instead, stopped somewhere in between, a place fitting these isotope result. Though I was never able to confirm it with the NH AG's office, I suspect that 3-7 month "layover" was in the MC's isotope result area, when she might have ended up with TPR. Adding this to the timeline pushes their estimated TOD further out.
Plus, there's a chance the Elizabeth who signed for TPR's letter was Marlyse, which would put the TOD into mid-1980 sometime, or later.
Based on those two pieces of information, I believe they were killed summer of 1980.

I see your point, however, I still believe they were killed closer to 1979, but that is the good thing about this forum - we can all collaborate evidence and work it together.

 

[onceuponadecember]

Isotopes also show Marlyse and her daughters lived in a more northern climate than NH 3-7 months prior to their deaths. To me, this means there's a probability they didn't go immediately or directly from CA to NH, but, instead, stopped somewhere in between, a place fitting these isotope result. Though I was never able to confirm it with the NH AG's office, I suspect that 3-7 month "layover" was in the MC's isotope result area, when she might have ended up with TPR. Adding this to the timeline pushes their estimated TOD further out.
Plus, there's a chance the Elizabeth who signed for TPR's letter was Marlyse, which would put the TOD into mid-1980 sometime, or later.
Based on those two pieces of information, I believe they were killed summer of 1980.

The only issue I see with them coming in 1980 is that Rasmussen was there in 1978/9 and they certainly would’ve come with him.

 

[onceuponadecember]

Did they ever say why they were so well preserved in 1985. The police officer 1st on the scene mentioned that he saw a face looking up at him. 5 yrs or so in a barrel like that you would think there would of been more decomposing.

This could be a case of good preservation - it's not uncommon. Joseph Henry Loveless died c. 1916 and was in very good condition when he was found in 1979. Shoot, even in the 70's when they found the skeleton of Mary, Queen of Scots' third husband, James Hepburn, Earl of Bothwell, it was in spectacular condition for being over 390 years old.

 

[onceuponadecember]

Isotopes also show Marlyse and her daughters lived in a more northern climate than NH 3-7 months prior to their deaths. To me, this means there's a probability they didn't go immediately or directly from CA to NH, but, instead, stopped somewhere in between, a place fitting these isotope result. Though I was never able to confirm it with the NH AG's office, I suspect that 3-7 month "layover" was in the MC's isotope result area, when she might have ended up with TPR. Adding this to the timeline pushes their estimated TOD further out.
Plus, there's a chance the Elizabeth who signed for TPR's letter was Marlyse, which would put the TOD into mid-1980 sometime, or later.
Based on those two pieces of information, I believe they were killed summer of 1980.

(Apologies in advance, but whenever someone gets into historical dating, it makes me chatty, considering I am a history/social studies teacher and have done work with historians before )
I thought this through in my timeline of their deaths, and the probable death range is from March to September 1979 - I know most people think they lived together long term, but we can see in his relationships with women that they usually lasted no more than a year or two. Plus, since Marlyse's daughter was no more than 3 and "Anita Moon" (the posthumous nickname for MC Rasmussen, I will refer to MC as her in my future responses), if born c. 1975/6, would be really close to age four in 1979.

 

[Eddie99]

I'm not sure how you made that conclusion, about the length of his relationships.

He was married for several years.
We have no idea how long he was with the MC mother.
We have no clue when he killed M.H.
We have no clue when he killed Denise. We can't even prove he killed her, although I say that is the likley outcome.
And the only other relationship we know of is the woman in California. Which lasted a few years.

 

[onceuponadecember]

I'm not sure how you made that conclusion, about the length of his relationships.

He was married for several years.
We have no idea how long he was with the MC mother.
We have no clue when he killed M.H.
We have no clue when he killed Denise. We can't even prove he killed her, although I say that is the likley outcome.
And the only other relationship we know of is the woman in California. Which lasted a few years.

Your statement on "we have no clue when he killed MH" is preposterous - we have several factors that narrow down the death period:

• We know the family left likely in late 1978 or early 1979, as Terry was working in NH in 1979
• They made a short stop for 3 to 7 months in an unknown state (as suggested in the isotopes)
• The family was in NH from 3 weeks to 2 months before their deaths (again, as suggested in the isotopes)
• As Terry left in November 1981, we know they all died sometime between '78 and '81.
• "Anita Moon" was probably born in 1975 or 1976 according to NCMEC - 2 to 4 years old at death

With these basic facts, the family most likely died sometime in 1979; early 1980 if stretching it.

 

[Alleykins]

I see your point, however, I still believe they were killed closer to 1979, but that is the good thing about this forum - we can all collaborate evidence and work it together.

Just curious what you're basing your TOD on. Not saying it's wrong, just curious.


ETA: Nevermind, I just saw your post to Eddie

 

[Eddie99]

I put about as much faith in isotope testing as I do in psychic mediums. As I sit here I cannot recall a single time that has been even close to being correct.

Take knoxville Jane doe. They claimed she lived her entire life in on of 13 Eastern Mid Atlantic states. As it looks, she was from California.

Not to mention - I don't think any of the isotopes from the Allentown 4 suggested they were from the Los Angeles area.

 

[onceuponadecember]

I put about as much faith in isotope testing as I do in psychic mediums. As I sit here I cannot recall a single time that has been even close to being correct.

Take knoxville Jane doe. They claimed she lived her entire life in on of 13 Eastern Mid Atlantic states. As it looks, she was from California.

Not to mention - I don't think any of the isotopes from the Allentown 4 suggested they were from the Los Angeles area.

I think that isotope data can be used in another way - determining when a person was where. Even if it wasn’t a northern state they were in (between California and NH) it does prove a point that they were evidently somewhere in a time frame.

 

[ntt1]

I put about as much faith in isotope testing as I do in psychic mediums. As I sit here I cannot recall a single time that has been even close to being correct.

Take knoxville Jane doe. They claimed she lived her entire life in on of 13 Eastern Mid Atlantic states. As it looks, she was from California.

Not to mention - I don't think any of the isotopes from the Allentown 4 suggested they were from the Los Angeles area.

The problem when the claims are taken as gospel. They are only based on statistical probabilities datasets, if I'm not mistaken, of which there are varying degrees of uncertainty involved.

 

[AliceInPain]

From Bear Brook Podcast:

Plants and animals also absorb environmental isotopes through their diet. So an animal who lived in a region with lots of oxygen-18 will have more of it stored in their bones than an animal who lived elsewhere.

In other words, living things carry an imprint of their environment, recorded in isotopes.

Scientists first started using the technique on human remains in archaeology -- think ancient burials. That’s how Kamenov first started doing this.

It will work on ancient remains when there was less import/ export, it just doesn't work on later remains.
"Lyle Stevik"'s isoptope map was all over the place but we know he was from N. California and went up to Washington to kill himself.
If the people don't drink the local water or eat the local food, and not many do nowadays, you can tell almost nothing from these maps.
Look at Marie's. We know she was born and spent the majority of her life in California. The isotopes shows only a thin strip in that area.
It just doesn't work in a time when people go to supermarkets and buy their foods from Asia or Mexico, don't have their own farms, refuse to drink tap water etc...
It was a method developed for archeological remains, a time long before industrialization, and should stay there. imo.

 

[Alleykins]

Marlyse's isotope results were somewhat correct, as she grew up in CT before heading to CA. Why CA didn't show up more strongly in all 4, considering it appears Marie and Sarah spent the majority of their lives in CA, I find mystifying.
Can we say for sure if Lyle Stevik wasn't in any of those areas indicated by his isotope results before he died? I don't think we were given much info about him after he was identified, as his family requested their privacy. It's possible he didn't go directly to WA from CA.
Marcia King's isotopes revealed she had been in a specific area of TX before she died.
Her results were different than some of the other cases because LE chose to use hair and nails, which doesn't reveal the long term, only the recent past. It's possible her location of origin might have been pinpointed had teeth and bone been used instead. In her case, the specific location was due to very unique isotope properties only found in that area. So, if we could somehow know how she spent the last year of her life, her results might prove accurate.
But I have to agree, I don't put as much stock in isotope testing as I once did, based on recent ID's who also had isotope testing done & it appears they didn't align with what we learned about the person.

 

[CCJD]

I don't put as much stock in isotope testing as I once did, based on recent ID's who also had isotope testing done & it appears they didn't align with what we learned about the person.

rsbm

Agreed. I stopped giving isotopes any consideration after the Beth Doe/Evelyn Colon identification. Not even close.