NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #12

[nycpizzaparty]

It's also worth noting that negative posts about James Renner on sites such as Reddit and on here, often end up deleted. It is very curious that this happens - all of this deleting. I wonder if this post will get deleted upon request of a certain individual.

 

[Reno]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he come forward about seeing a girl running at a later date, saying he had just remembered it? That leads me to think there is a possibility that it could have been an entirely different night. I can't rule it out, but I can't take what he said as a fact for that reason.

It's my understanding that while he wasn't immediately aware of the disappearance, he did find the jogger's behavior odd enough to remember. It was only after Maura's case became a sensation that he double-checked his work records and realized that his sighting did indeed occur on the night of February 9, 2004.

I think both of these are in the ballpark, but there's some more. RF was questioned by the police within 10 days, so based on that alone - he had to have been aware of MM's disappearance relatively rapidly. He did not report the sighting at that time of his discussion with the police. His rationale for not mentioning it at the time was his belief he had seen "the runner" 2 nights later. After the disappearance reached the sensation level, he checked his records, determined it was in fact the night of 2/9, called FM and told him of the general sighting, location, time. FM rolled it back to the cops.

If you assume the statements are true, it does raise intriguing dimensions: a.) MM was an accomplished, college level competitive runner, so it is pretty plausible she could cover 5 miles in 1/2 hour - drunk though? I dunno, b.) it's known police didn't search east on 112, and this places her there, explaining why they didn't see her, c.) it undermines the idea of a Valley Road or Bradley Hill Road pickup, d.) it raises the inference about vehicles interacting with her as she went east.

But like everything else with the disappearance, you have to layer on assumptions and that makes it tough to accept at face value.

 

[Reno]

Doesn't the whole case boil down to two separate possibilities? Either Maura went on foot out of that area, perhaps toward the white mountains or hitched a ride with a stranger or somebody she knew (the tandem driver theory sits here).

I have come full circle and I am back caught between the possibility of Maura being suicidal and the possibility of foul play. Without being sure of two things, 1. why the rag was stuffed in the exhaust and 2. why only the bottles of alcohol were taken and little else then I'm stuck. The phone calls Billy made and received up to and during the disappearance do look very suspicious to me if proven but they just don't prove anything conclusively.

BBM. I think a third is "misadventure". It's not that hard to paint a scenario for it - maybe a bad scare along the road, twisted ankle or knee, exhaustion, depression and hard liquor as contributors - but not precipitating causes. I'm reminded of the Kim family ordeal Oregon. They found James...and quickly...but it hadn't taken long for hypothermia to find him. There are some strange parallels: air searches couldn't find that family in a wood area, James weak from hunger that made him even more vulnerable (could be bulimia + calorie restriction parallel.) Contrast is that they did find him. And also contrast that MM was a fairly experienced hiker. I'm not staking this as my theory, just walking through some thoughts.

 

[goldiegirl]

Bryce Laspisa's and Derick Higgins's cases remind me of this one as well. If you haven't checked them out, you should!

ETA: And Shane Fell!

 

[wfgodot]

Anyone following My Search for Maura Murray? Comments?

 

[bluesneakers]

Anyone following My Search for Maura Murray? Comments?

I had to back away from that madness. Is there anything new?

 

[wfgodot]

I had to back away from that madness. Is there anything new?

Another 180:

Maura Murray is not a sociopath. She is a survivor. She always was.

 

[bluesneakers]

Another 180:

That's a 180 for sure. I don't think he's saying anything we don't already know, and the plea to Maura... I don't know what to make of that. We know he checks his readers' IP addresses so maybe someone in northern Quebec or darkest Peru checks every day and he thinks it's her.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

a.) MM was an accomplished, college level competitive runner, so it is pretty plausible she could cover 5 miles in 1/2 hour - drunk though? I dunno

There is little will stronger than that of an addict trying to cover for their own bad behavior. I've personally known drunk drivers who have run away from accidents just like Maura's under identical weather conditions and none of them were record-holding track stars in top competitive shape.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

b.) it's known police didn't search east on 112, and this places her there, explaining why they didn't see her, c.) it undermines the idea of a Valley Road or Bradley Hill Road pickup, d.) it raises the inference about vehicles interacting with her as she went east.

Exactly. It broadens significantly the window of time and geographical expanse for something, ANYTHING to have happened to her. And if she made it five miles on foot, then she could well have made it further. If she caught a ride, she could have wound up literally anywhere. But as others have said, either outcome puts Maura beyond the search radius, off the radar of where anyone initially thought to look for her and sadly, if the outcome was fatal, most likely still there. If that's the case, and with prominent voices insisting it couldn't have happened that way and Rick Forcier's at best mistaken and at worst a liar, then it's no wonder we're all still kicking tires nearly 12 years down the road.

 

[leep]

Another 180:

That's a 180 for sure. I don't think he's saying anything we don't already know, and the plea to Maura... I don't know what to make of that. We know he checks his readers' IP addresses so maybe someone in northern Quebec or darkest Peru checks every day and he thinks it's her.

Sorry i'm new to this mind boggling case but is there any proof anywhere she was pregnant?
And do we know whether she did have a hard upbringing? She got into very good schools to say she had a bad/poor home life no.
Thanks!

Edit: How legit/accurate has this James Wrenner been over the years ty.

 

[bluesneakers]

Sorry i'm new to this mind boggling case but is there any proof anywhere she was pregnant?
And do we know whether she did have a hard upbringing?
Thanks!

Google searches about pregnancy and alcohol consumption on her computer, but birth control pills were found in her car.

 

[TessDeco]

Sorry i'm new to this mind boggling case but is there any proof anywhere she was pregnant?
And do we know whether she did have a hard upbringing? She got into very good schools to say she had a bad/poor home life no.
Thanks!

Edit: How legit/accurate has this James Wrenner been over the years ty.

I've seen no proof that Maura was pregnant. Most of the people directly involved in this case have refused to talk to James Renner so, IMO, his blog is primarily based on unsubstantiated rumors and speculation about Maura and especially about her relationship with her Dad, Fred Murray. I recommend people keep this in mind when they consider anything written by Mr Renner as he rarely offers any proof to back up his claims. This is just MHO and you are welcome to decide for yourself.

 

[Lolacat]

Anyone following My Search for Maura Murray? Comments?

My thoughts:

Kudos to him for admitting he was wrong about her being a sociopath. It takes balls to admit that you're wrong, publicly.

The pregnancy thing is a bit odd. Ive wondered for a while if she was pregnant and that was the trigger for her to run, but one thing seems at odds. IF Maura was pregnant and was concerned enough about the effects of alcohol on early pregnancy to google it (as her computer searches suggest) then why was she drinking so heavily in the days following those searches and as she was running? I would assume from this that if she was drinking (and she was aware of the negative effects of alcohol on a foetus) then she was planning an abortion(?).

If, on the other hand, she wanted to run away to keep the baby and to get away from billy and her family and start a new life to *protect* her baby- then whats with the all the alcohol and sleeping tablets?

Of course, it could be that she was confused and in complete shock and hadn't yet decided.

Good grief, this case is completely maddening :gaah:

 

[Caffeine]

Edit: How legit/accurate has this James Wrenner been over the years ty.

Renner was the first, I believe, to uncover Maura's credit card fraud and unearthed some other documents. I give him credit for his dedication and keeping her name in the spotlight but a lot of content is almost tabloid-esque. It seems a lot of his information is unsubstantiated second or third hand accounts and other times he will make a claim but fail to cite any source for it, so we're essentially taking his word for it.

His general stance on the case seems to be she has run away and is living in hiding now. He admits there is a chance of her being deceased but for the most part he believes she is alive and well.

I think with this case a lot of people think by tying together all the small pieces of the puzzle we will figure out the big picture and what happened to Maura - but I often wonder if that big piece we're missing might simply be unrelated to the events leading to her disappearance and this perhaps just ended as another tragic crime of opportunity.

 

[wfgodot]

If I perceived I'd possibly alienated a goodly percentage of my prospective book-buying readership by calling the victim who was also the subject of said book "a sociopath," I'd quite probably do a volte face somewhere along the line too: "No...I meant survivor!" In keeping with the book description the focus is as much on Renner as on Maura Murray. It all sounds contrived really -- the very opposite of "ballsy."

 

[Pettibon Junction]

If I perceived I'd possibly alienated a goodly percentage of my prospective book-buying readership by calling the victim who was also the subject of said book "a sociopath," I'd quite probably do a volte face somewhere along the line too: "No...I meant survivor!" In keeping with the book description the focus is as much on Renner as on Maura Murray. It all sounds contrived really -- the very opposite of "ballsy."

Title of Post: "Maura *Was* Not a Sociopath, She *Was* a Survivor"
Body of Post: "Maura Murray *is* not a sociopath. She *is* a survivor."

Talk about covering your bases! Meanwhile, anyone with even a cursory knowledge of mental health who've spent a little while with Maura's case knew very early on that she had a survivor mindset - an obvious and essential bit of character that nonetheless took JR three years and a series of increasingly outlandish theories/grandstanding stunts to come around to.

 

[Lolacat]

If I perceived I'd possibly alienated a goodly percentage of my prospective book-buying readership by calling the victim who was also the subject of said book "a sociopath," I'd quite probably do a volte face somewhere along the line too: "No...I meant survivor!" In keeping with the book description the focus is as much on Renner as on Maura Murray. It all sounds contrived really -- the very opposite of "ballsy."

LOL! fair point, well made.
But I'm still glad it was corrected.

 

[Ricochet]

James is now offering $1,000.00 (one thousand) reward to anyone who can provide a picture, legal document or video proof Maura that Maura is alive. Then the blog, interviews etc will be deleted, but I suspect the book will remain.

I don't think this case will be solved for these reasons.

1. No support from the Murray's, Sara or Kate. The one's who may know something.
2. The reasons for her leaving UMass that day are all based on assumptions. There's valid arguments that she was leaving UMass for good and there's also valid arguments that she wasn't.
3. Everything after speaking to Butch Atwood that night is all assumption, based off multiple theories, that can be argued for or against.
4. There's too much disinformation. The same things keep getting rehashed over and over even after a plausible explanation has been given.

 

[xjd]

James is now offering $1,000.00 (one thousand) reward to anyone who can provide a picture, legal document or video proof Maura that Maura is alive. Then the blog, interviews etc will be deleted, but I suspect the book will remain.

I don't think this case will be solved for these reasons.

1. No support from the Murray's, Sara or Kate. The one's who may know something.
2. The reasons for her leaving UMass that day are all based on assumptions. There's valid arguments that she was leaving UMass for good and there's also valid arguments that she wasn't.
3. Everything after speaking to Butch Atwood that night is all assumption, based off multiple theories, that can be argued for or against.
4. There's too much disinformation. The same things keep getting rehashed over and over even after a plausible explanation has been given.

after the events of the last several months both on Renner's blog and the podcast guys, here is where i am at with this:

Maura, if you are alive and reading this, please make your presence known to police or a lawyer or someone who can protect you but let the media know you are ok. Let your story then become a non-story. Or if that's not possible, please let it be YOU who makes any money that might be possible from your story and not other writers, film makers etc. Or collaborate with them for a big chunk of money to the rights to your story. Either way, take control back.