NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 7

[rosierider]

I really really really find it hard to believe that Maura put the rag in the tailpipe. Whether or not someone saw her crappy, wrecked car doesn't seem like something she would worry about at that time (while running away, drinking?, shaken up from wreck, upset, etc.)

 

[McSpy]

Ref:

I agree with you, that the sister would not have held info from her grieving mother.
I'm also sad to hear that her mom passed away on her birthday, but not surprised either., as to lose a child before their time or before you pass, is almost incomprehensible really and to go on living is very tough too.

I still however, don't know why she'd leave at such an odd hour to go see her father at first light? How many hrs would it have taken to reach his house when she set out initially?

3AM just seems like a strange time even for a younger person to leave and drive (the 1st accident? ) What could have prompted this ?

Maura's father was at a hotel, which was pretty close to campus.

 

[goodgirl65]

I really really really find it hard to believe that Maura put the rag in the tailpipe. Whether or not someone saw her crappy, wrecked car doesn't seem like something she would worry about at that time (while running away, drinking?, shaken up from wreck, upset, etc.)

I think its possible that Maura put the rag in the tailpipe herself so her car wouldnt smoke as much while driving up the mountain..Her car was running on 3 cylinders, and perhaps when she stopped for gas earlier she decided to shove the rag in there if she saw it was smoking alot...Maybe instead it stalled or caused another problem, leading to the accident..

 

[McSpy]

I really really really find it hard to believe that Maura put the rag in the tailpipe. Whether or not someone saw her crappy, wrecked car doesn't seem like something she would worry about at that time (while running away, drinking?, shaken up from wreck, upset, etc.)

She was probably not thinking straight, but she seemed like a conscientious person. I can see her putting that rag in the tailpipe as a warning flag for other drivers, even if it was a feeble attempt at best. JMO

 

[goodgirl65]

...I just went over to Mr. Renner's blog for the first time today and he mentions the 1st accident and how Maura insisted on returning her father's car that night...

http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/


ETA: Im guessing everyone knew this already, lol....im a little slow tonite and prob missed the reference updating myself on this thread...

 

[McSpy]

I think its possible that Maura put the rag in the tailpipe herself so her car wouldnt smoke as much while driving up the mountain..Her car was running on 3 cylinders, and perhaps when she stopped for gas earlier she decided to shove the rag in there if she saw it was smoking alot...Maybe instead it stalled or caused another problem, leading to the accident..

Seems possible. Although, it depends on why her car was running on 3 cylinders. If she did stall, why didn't she just brake to a slow stop. Why would she lose control? Could she have stepped on the accelerator to keep the car from stalling and then lost control?

 

[McSpy]

No way I believe Maura put that rag in her tailpipe for oncoming traffic to see. No one driving in the opposite direction is going to see a rag sticking out of a tailpipe in dark before they are going to see the car itself. General field of vision is not for someone to look down and to the left while driving on a dark road at night. If Maura was thinking of alerting oncoming drivers of a deserted car then the logical think to do would be to drape it across the open trunk and close the lid on it or to roll the window up on it. Someone of you may say that Maura was not thinking logically that night and I would certainly agree. In fact I personally don't think Maura's mind was on anything but getting the heck out of there and not what she should do to alert oncoming traffic.

Now to bring up another point. So many people will state their opinions about what they know as fact. I have no problem with that although I never put much stock into it since I rarely hear anyone back up their info as to
how they know what they are giving as opinion to actually be fact. I have heard so many times on different boards that this rag was loosely packed and came from her trunk. I have also read many times that the liquor was missing to now found out that it was accounted for. So how does any of us know for a fact what is true about the rag or other things that we are hearing. At least with Mr Renner, he is telling us where most of his info is coming from.

Most of the facts are from the media. If these facts are wrong, then the media got it wrong or the poster's memory is wrong. We should back up our facts with links. Although, it is a lot of work and time to find the links and some are disappearing. Mr. Renner had corrected what the media had reported wrong about the bottles of alcohol. Yet, perhaps, LE gave the media bad info. It had been reported that the bottles were missing from the car. Believe me, nobody wants to operate on bad info.

 

[rosierider]

Do we have any mechanics out there? How far could a person drive with a rag stuffed in a tailpipe? Is it possible to stuff one in that will stay in for miles? How big was this rag? Maybe if my dad yelled at me for not flagging a wrecked car just days before, I might try to flag a crappy, wrecked car too????

 

[McSpy]

Do we have any mechanics out there? How far could a person drive with a rag stuffed in a tailpipe? Is it possible to stuff one in that will stay in for miles? How big was this rag? Maybe if my dad yelled at me for not flagging a wrecked car just days before, I might try to flag a crappy, wrecked car too????

Good questions! I heard that the rag would just come out from the force of the exhaust, but I guess it depends on the size of the rag and if it was stuffed very tightly. If it was not packed tightly, the exhaust would just blow out around the rag or it would just blow the rag out of the tailpipe. This is what I was told. Hope to hear other opinions on this. This is a good question for the radio car show "Car Talk."

 

[flightlevel]

If anyone on here is typing facts then they should go to the LE. I know I would.

Very good point. And again what are the definate indisputable facts of the case? The main one of course is that Maura IS definately missing for some reason. Her vehicle WAS wrecked. Police DID arrive on the scene. Maura (on videotape) DID use an ATM and purchased alcohol.

 

[scoops]

Just so everyone is up to snuff.

There were two wrecks involving Maura Murray in the span of 40 hours.

The first wreck happened at the T-Intersection of Massachusetts Ave. and N. Maple St. in Hadley Massachusetts at 3 a.m. on Sunday Feb 8, 2004.
Maura was returning to her father's hotel (approx: seven miles away from her dorm) to return his new car he had lent her for the evening.

Maura likely did not have a key to her father's hotel as he was not expecting her at all until Sunday. He had likely given her his car because she drove him back to the hotel after having gone out to eat dinner with Maura and a friend after the three of them had spent the better part of the day shopping for a used car for Maura.

Maura returned to her dorm and attended a party and around 2:30 a.m. in the morning she left against the wishes of her friends to drive the seven miles and have to wake up her dad to get into his room and return his car.

She wrecked and smashed into a guardrail causing $8000 in damage to the car. The tow-truck driver with smashed car in back, ended up bringing Maura to her father's hotel around 4 a.m.


The Second wreck happened on Monday Feb 9, just after 7 p.m. over three hours away from her campus and first wreck site in the haverhill new hampshire area on Rt. 112 (Wild Ammonoosuc Rd.)

To this day, no one fully knows why Maura ventured to where she ended up, her car failed to negotiate a sharp left curve on Wild Ammonoosuc Rd. the car in its final resting place was in the eastbound lane but facing west. Witnesses report that they saw someone trying to back the car up (out of the road as the brake lights came on in the back). Many reports point out that her car was partially sticking out in the road and it has been reported that a witness who drove up on the scene (Butch Atwood) even recommended to Maura that she turn on her hazzard lights so she wouldn't get hit.

 

[Jane Birch]

Very good point. And again what are the definate indisputable facts of the case? The main one of course is that Maura IS definately missing for some reason. Her vehicle WAS wrecked. Police DID arrive on the scene. Maura (on videotape) DID use an ATM and purchased alcohol.

There is actually only video of ONE of those things (and for the life of me I can never remember which). And one thing that has always struck me as odd about the video is that her family has never been allowed to view it.

Why in the world would LE prevent the Murrays from seeing a surveillance video of an ATM or liquor store just hours before she disappeared???

As for the rag in the tailpipe--I never know what to say about that. That detail is SO completely random.....it's like someone else just recently said, that none of the details add up to a coherent whole at all. To me, that's just one of the weirdest.

 

[flightlevel]

And one thing that has always struck me as odd about the video is that her family has never been allowed to view it.

Why in the world would LE prevent the Murrays from seeing a surveillance video of an ATM or liquor store just hours before she disappeared???

That is very strange. You would think they would NEED her family to view the video to help verify that it actually was her. Also the family may be able to pick up on clues that LE couldn't. Little idiosyncrasies that only people extremeley close to her would notice. Allowing them to see the video could only help the case I would think. Isn't that the goal? To solve the case?

 

[OldSteve]

OldSteve,

Thanks for the compliments. But I am positive I am not James in fact I am a Sports Editor of a small-town newspaper in Southern Illinios to be exact who just like everyone else here took a lot of interest in this case.

I have gained a lot of investigative, interviewing and photography skills as a direct result of my journalism background and decided to try and at least apply some of those things to my recent journey into Massachusetts and New Hampshire for the first time ever.

I had limited time, so I narrowed my objective to mostly just getting a story out about Maura Murray through photos. ( I did no interviews and basically just tried to stay out of the locals hair and out of their way while I was doing what I did).

When you have a story that has been told by multiple sources over and over and over, you develop pictures in your mind that may or may not be accurate to what really happened.

So that was basically my objective: Provide accurate photos from locations of interest in this case and let the photos tell their own story.

Compliments to you are much deserved! You have accomplished your goal of providing accurate photos from locations of interest - your photos do speak for themselves!

In particular, the photos you shot showing where MM's first accident happened relative to her dorm really give a perspective that all the posts
I've read over the years have never given!

 

[OldSteve]

Wow. I'm done posting here.

Hope I haven't discouraged your posting in any way!

Please continue to post - your thoughts/theories are most welcome here!

By posting you are helping keep MM's memory alive here in cyberspace....

 

[OldSteve]

Seems possible. Although, it depends on why her car was running on 3 cylinders. If she did stall, why didn't she just brake to a slow stop. Why would she lose control? Could she have stepped on the accelerator to keep the car from stalling and then lost control?

McSpy - IIRC you had Saturn? Do you remember how they behave in this case when the engine is off... lost of power steering, brakes?

 

[raysgirl1126]

There is actually only video of ONE of those things (and for the life of me I can never remember which). And one thing that has always struck me as odd about the video is that her family has never been allowed to view it.

Why in the world would LE prevent the Murrays from seeing a surveillance video of an ATM or liquor store just hours before she disappeared???

As for the rag in the tailpipe--I never know what to say about that. That detail is SO completely random.....it's like someone else just recently said, that none of the details add up to a coherent whole at all. To me, that's just one of the weirdest.

The video was of her at the ATM not the liquor store if I remember correctly. And why the family was never allowed to see it is just werid, but I agree the rag is the weridest.

 

[telemag]

Hope these pics come out OK. This is an S series 2001 Satrun and it looks to be very similar to what Maura was driving. From the pic it looks to me that the tailpipe is on the right side kind of underneath the car. This would not have been very visible if at all. Does anyone other than me find it pretty unlikely that someone would put a rag in the tailpipe to signal oncoming traffic? I've seen plenty abandon cars in my life and most of them had rags hanging out of the window to signal that the car was broke down not to show that it was "there". Also, Maura would have had to get down on her hands and knees to even get to the tailpipe. I just don't see her doing this for any reason.

 

[xLiqoricex]

OldSteve,

No, you're fine .

Thank you!

 

[Jane Birch]

That is very strange. You would think they would NEED her family to view the video to help verify that it actually was her. Also the family may be able to pick up on clues that LE couldn't. Little idiosyncrasies that only people extremeley close to her would notice. Allowing them to see the video could only help the case I would think. Isn't that the goal? To solve the case?

You'd think, wouldn't you? But they have not been allowed to view the tape. I AM NOT CERTAIN OF THIS AS FACT but I believe UMass police confirmed it was Maura.