NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 8

[McSpy]

The question I've wonder about, and mentioned too many times - if a flashlight was part of her emergency kit packed by her Dad and if the flashlight was missing.
It seemed she was determined to get to a mountain.
It seemed she headed off east toward the mountains.
Without a flashlight it would have been very difficult to have run far without twisting an ankle.
With a flashlight she could have made it miles away to an area where if she succumbed in the woods she hasn't been found.
Apart from that, the river next to the road - if she thought it was field and fell through ice.

I've always wondered about a flashlight too. It would have made a big difference. I can't see how she would have been able to see her way down the road without one. I know your eyes can adjust, but there is very little ambient light in the area and I believe there was cloud cover, so there was no moon light. She could have used her cell phone to see somewhat. I've used mine to see key holes or items I've dropped on the ground at night. It helps, but it is very limited. I'm sure she probably wanted to preserve the battery. Although, she may not have thought of using the cell phone as a light.

I wonder what the depth range is for that river. I'm sure it varies. Even if it was only waist deep it would have been a problem if she broke through the ice. The cold water would have been brutal. The only thing-- I can't imagine her walking away from the road into a field. She probably wouldn't have seen it anyway, unless she had a flashlight. She could have jumped away from the road, after hearing a car approaching and slipped--hurting herself in the process. If she didn't accept a ride, I figure she may have avoided all vehicles, because she feared they were the police. She could have felt vulnerable too, so she didn't want to be seen by a passing dirtbag. IMO, an accident was possible. Lets face it, it was pitch black, cold, and in an isolated area, especially if she ran east. JMO

 

[McSpy]

All very possible scenarios, but also add in the fact that she could've got a ride the rest of the way somewhere east down the road.

I really think its possible that someone could've gave maura a ride and still not realize the significance of that event.

Many people have never heard about the maura murray case and someone in that area that night, may have just been passing through and saw someone that needed a lift.

But then again, maura was likely in a desperate state after her second accident. She may have avoided all people and very well could've never made it to her destination and succumbed to the elements a few miles or 10-20 miles further east.

Possible. Dartmouth College is not far from where Maura crashed, so a student renting a house nearby or traveling to a job in another town could have given her a ride. Commercial trucks pass through there too. Maybe not so much in the winter, but I'm sure a few pass through if they are accustomed to the roads.

 

[scoops]

Just something to ponder:

As far as I know, most (if not all) of the searches done for maura have either been within a short mile radius of where her car ended up or as a response to a tip (such as the A-frame house) and I believe there were some ponds looked at in the general area.

Bottom line is that in most car accident cases where someone goes missing, they are usually found within a few miles of the accident.

But with maura, this doesn't IMO ring to be true at all. She was offered help and wanted no part of it. She was an intelligent person who had just driven past an open convienence store about a mile west from where she had her wreck. She could've with little problem at all back-tracked on foot to that convienence store.

She wanted to get away from the scene. I don't believe maura (even if she succumbed to the elements) would be anywhere near her car accident scene but likely miles and miles away (and likely east of the accident).

 

[Unscripted]

Just something to ponder: As far as I know, most (if not all) of the searches done for maura have either been within a short mile radius of where her car ended up or as a response to a tip (such as the A-frame house) and I believe there were some ponds looked at in the general area.

Bottom line is that in most car accident cases where someone goes missing, they are usually found within a few miles of the accident.

But with maura, this doesn't IMO ring to be true at all. She was offered help and wanted no part of it. She was an intelligent person who had just driven past an open convienence store about a mile west from where she had her wreck. She could've with little problem at all back-tracked on foot to that convienence store.

She wanted to get away from the scene. I don't believe maura (even if she succumbed to the elements) would be anywhere near her car accident scene but likely miles and miles away (and likely east of the accident).

There is a theory, that I'm inclined to support, which is that the vehicle that picked Maura up either went up Bradley Hill Road or turned around and headed back into Woodsville. There must be a reason that CS (LE) and BA, the SBD only searched west when they did their cursory look for the missing girl that evening and that later the BOL (for fire and EMS) only went out for Haverhill, Lisbon and Littleton and NOT eastward to Lincoln, Franconia and North Woodstock.

Did LE misjudge or did someone see a vehicle speeding away (westward) from the crash scene? Why did the responding officer initially go westward when he got to Route 112 instead of east toward the crash scene? It's doubtful he got his directions mixed up from dispatch. I think it's possible that he may have spied a speeding vehicle, but it got away and he had to make the choice to turn around and get to the accident at Weathered Barn corner. Or did LE not search east of Bradley Hill Road that night because they just assumed that the driver of the Saturn would head back into town?

The immediate crash scene area was searched extensively and there was no indication that she walked into the woods or made it more than a few paces down the road, in fact the scent trail ended just 100 feet down the road. Given the wind patterns (West to East) it is possible that she got into a vehicle right beside her own car.

I believe that if Maura had known that there was dodgy cell coverage in that area she might have been more willing to accept help from the SBD. I think given that she had an AAA card with long distance towing that she initially perceived she has everything in hand on her own. I also believe that she was planning to return to her vehicle that night with the intention of recovering the Saturn and that she put the rag in the tailpipe in case someone came along with the intention of stealing the car in the meantime. (After all, the car probably had some trade-in value for the new car her dad was planning to buy for her.)

 

[OldSteve]

Thanks Unscripted - I did not know she had AAA coverage with long distance towing. (That's 100 miles on the coverage I've seen advertised, but not sure what it was then.)
IIRC Fred was upset that LE never searched east of the crash and could not get an answer as to why that wasn't done - so I thought that it was simply an oversight...

McSpy - I did not know about Dartmouth College being in proximity.... interesting! Wonder if she knew anyone there...

Scoops - wasn't that convenience store the one that James Renner when into to get info and almost wound up in a fight with the owner?

 

[McSpy]

There is a theory, that I'm inclined to support, which is that the vehicle that picked Maura up either went up Bradley Hill Road or turned around and headed back into Woodsville. There must be a reason that CS (LE) and BA, the SBD only searched west when they did their cursory look for the missing girl that evening and that later the BOL (for fire and EMS) only went out for Haverhill, Lisbon and Littleton and NOT eastward to Lincoln, Franconia and North Woodstock.

Did LE misjudge or did someone see a vehicle speeding away (westward) from the crash scene? Why did the responding officer initially go westward when he got to Route 112 instead of east toward the crash scene? It's doubtful he got his directions mixed up from dispatch. I think it's possible that he may have spied a speeding vehicle, but it got away and he had to make the choice to turn around and get to the accident at Weathered Barn corner. Or did LE not search east of Bradley Hill Road that night because they just assumed that the driver of the Saturn would head back into town?

The immediate crash scene area was searched extensively and there was no indication that she walked into the woods or made it more than a few paces down the road, in fact the scent trail ended just 100 feet down the road. Given the wind patterns (West to East) it is possible that she got into a vehicle right beside her own car.

I believe that if Maura had known that there was dodgy cell coverage in that area she might have been more willing to accept help from the SBD. I think given that she had an AAA card with long distance towing that she initially perceived she has everything in hand on her own. I also believe that she was planning to return to her vehicle that night with the intention of recovering the Saturn and that she put the rag in the tailpipe in case someone came along with the intention of stealing the car in the meantime. (After all, the car probably had some trade-in value for the new car her dad was planning to buy for her.)

You make a lot of sense here. I have thought she may have accepted a ride from someone heading west. In other words, initially she headed east from the accident, but someone driving west bound saw her and asked her if she needed a lift. IMO, I also think LE and the SBD searched west, because they were locals. It was an automatic response for them to look west, because they knew the area had businessl establishments. Eastward went further into a dark forest. They probably couldn't imagine anyone running in that direction.

I believe she was going to return to her vehicle too. JMO

 

[McSpy]

The question I've wonder about, and mentioned too many times - if a flashlight was part of her emergency kit packed by her Dad and if the flashlight was missing.
It seemed she was determined to get to a mountain.
It seemed she headed off east toward the mountains.
Without a flashlight it would have been very difficult to have run far without twisting an ankle.
With a flashlight she could have made it miles away to an area where if she succumbed in the woods she hasn't been found.
Apart from that, the river next to the road - if she thought it was field and fell through ice.

I have to apologize. Dartmouth College is 40 minutes away. I thought it was closer. Although, someone on one of the boards did mention a community college or a night school some where in the area. They thought that classes could have been let out around the time Maura was running down the road. I'm trying to figure who would be passing through Rt. 112 or 116 on a Monday evening in Feb. Students? People returning from work, going to work, shopping? Heading to a bar?

 

[scoops]

Thanks Unscripted - I did not know she had AAA coverage with long distance towing. (That's 100 miles on the coverage I've seen advertised, but not sure what it was then.)
IIRC Fred was upset that LE never searched east of the crash and could not get an answer as to why that wasn't done - so I thought that it was simply an oversight...

McSpy - I did not know about Dartmouth College being in proximity.... interesting! Wonder if she knew anyone there...

Scoops - wasn't that convenience store the one that James Renner when into to get info and almost wound up in a fight with the owner?

Yes, it is the same store that james went into. It is approximately 1.1 miles from maura's accident scene (or a two minute drive according to google maps)

Here is a link to the convienence store. you can see it sits right next to the road, maura would've clearly noticed this store as she passed it.

bath, nh - Google Maps

 

[scoops]

Since I am on a google map craze, I went ahead and grabbed the petrit vasi accident location as well (not that I am suggesting Maura had anything to do with it).

Anyway where petrit was believed to be hit by a car is precisely 1.1 miles (or four minutes by car according to google maps) from where maura was working that thursday night and also 1.1 miles from where maura lived.

mattoon street, amherst, ma - Google Maps

 

[scoops]

Some more google maps fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

please note you can use the north, south, east, west arrow option on the top-left corner of the screen (once you click open the link) to pan around the area in a full 360 view.

This is a link to the spot, the search dogs lost the scent of maura. (dogs lost the scent on Rt. 112 at the intersection of Bradley Hill Rd. This link places you on Bradley Hill Rd. and it shows you a couple of the houses that have been talked about concerning this case.

When you first open the link (and let it come into focus) the house you see is the atwoods (school bus driver's (on Rt. 112). If you rotate the arrows to the left you will see a brown A-frame house on a corner lot (off bradley Hill) this is the house that Rick Forcier built. At the time maura went missing, this house was still being built, and he had a temporary trailer he was living in nearby. I believe you can tell by the way the ground is messed up, where his temporary trailer was located.

If you keep panning with the arrows you will notice that across the street from Rick Forcier (still on Bradley hill rd. there is a white house. (Not sure who lives there or what they know about that night or the maura murray case)

Anyway just trying to provide some visual references to go along with all of the discussions.

bath, nh - Google Maps

 

[scoops]

here is a closer look at (what used to be) the school bus driver's house.

you can see where the house and front porch are located. In front of the house and just off the road is where the atwood's parked their school bus. (each drove a school bus and you can still see how there is a makeshift driveway in the front yard).

Also note that on the night maura went missing the school bus driver backed his bus up near the front porch. From that view, he would not be able to see the accident site any further because of the tree-line (to the left of their house) that would be blocking his view.

If you go to the arrows (top left corner) and pan left you can see another house off of rt. 112 that is literally sitting just above where maura ended up after her wreck. The driveway to this house is only a few feet away and in front of where maura's car ended up. I am not clear on who lived in this house at that particular time. i find it odd that we haven't heard more from this house. This would be a logical place for maura to turn too first after her wreck if she was wanting help, or she could've walked across the street and gone to the westman's, which you can't see in this link, unless you know how to navigate further down the road west.

bath, nh - Google Maps

 

[OldSteve]

I'm thinking MM would have stayed away from making contact with anyone very close to the crash site since she did not want to be arrested for DUI. If I were her, I'd seek shelter in an unfinished (empty) house though... I wouldn't want to get to far from the car that had my jewelry and other things in... I just need to make it to morning to escape a DUI.

 

[scoops]

I'm thinking MM would have stayed away from making contact with anyone very close to the crash site since she did not want to be arrested for DUI. If I were her, I'd seek shelter in an unfinished (empty) house though... I wouldn't want to get to far from the car that had my jewelry and other things in... I just need to make it to morning to escape a DUI.

I agree with you that it doesn't seem likely that maura wanted to stay in that area that night.

I think it's safe to say by now that if maura was in need of help that night or felt in danger, she would've turned to one of these nearby houses for help.

So most likely, it explains why maura refused help from the school bus driver.

It still baffles me that we have heard all about the school bus driver and all about the westman's (first people to call 911) and even the contractor but yet the closest house to maura's wreck and we haven't heard anything about the people at this house.

Did they hear the wreck? Did they go outside and help search when all the police/firemen showed up on scene? Maybe they weren't home that night or maybe they just keep to themselves.

 

[McSpy]

I agree with you that it doesn't seem likely that maura wanted to stay in that area that night.

I think it's safe to say by now that if maura was in need of help that night or felt in danger, she would've turned to one of these nearby houses for help.

So most likely, it explains why maura refused help from the school bus driver.

It still baffles me that we have heard all about the school bus driver and all about the westman's (first people to call 911) and even the contractor but yet the closest house to maura's wreck and we haven't heard anything about the people at this house.

Did they hear the wreck? Did they go outside and help search when all the police/firemen showed up on scene? Maybe they weren't home that night or maybe they just keep to themselves.

There was an older couple with the surname something like, Margott, Marcott? (I'm going by memory), who were witnesses. They lived very close to the accident scene. I need to look for a link on this to be sure.

 

[McSpy]

here is a closer look at (what used to be) the school bus driver's house.

you can see where the house and front porch are located. In front of the house and just off the road is where the atwood's parked their school bus. (each drove a school bus and you can still see how there is a makeshift driveway in the front yard).

Also note that on the night maura went missing the school bus driver backed his bus up near the front porch. From that view, he would not be able to see the accident site any further because of the tree-line (to the left of their house) that would be blocking his view.

If you go to the arrows (top left corner) and pan left you can see another house off of rt. 112 that is literally sitting just above where maura ended up after her wreck. The driveway to this house is only a few feet away and in front of where maura's car ended up. I am not clear on who lived in this house at that particular time. i find it odd that we haven't heard more from this house. This would be a logical place for maura to turn too first after her wreck if she was wanting help, or she could've walked across the street and gone to the westman's, which you can't see in this link, unless you know how to navigate further down the road west.

bath, nh - Google Maps

I found it! This is the other couple, who were witnesses. I don't know exactly where their house was situated. This may not be the home you are referring. Here is an excerpt and the link to the article:

Meanwhile, across the street, neighbor Virginia Marrotte was standing in her kitchen with her husband, John, who was peeling an orange.

"From our kitchen window we saw a car down the road with trouble lights flashing and someone walking around the car," Virginia Marrotte wrote in response to a set of questions sent for this series.*

http://www.whitmanhansonexpress.com...76-maura-is-missing-part-ii-the-accident.html

 

[scoops]

I found it! This is the other couple, who were witnesses. I don't know exactly where their house was situated. This may not be the home you are referring. Here is an excerpt and the link to the article:

Meanwhile, across the street, neighbor Virginia Marrotte was standing in her kitchen with her husband, John, who was peeling an orange.

"From our kitchen window we saw a car down the road with trouble lights flashing and someone walking around the car," Virginia Marrotte wrote in response to a set of questions sent for this series.*

http://www.whitmanhansonexpress.com...76-maura-is-missing-part-ii-the-accident.html

Yeah, I always thought it was the Marottes that lived there but when i talked to james (renner) about it (he visited the neighborhood, he said that house was occupied by one older man and that the marottes lived somewhere else down the road. I may have misunderstood him or he may have misunderstood what i was asking.

 

[McSpy]

Yeah, I always thought it was the Marottes that lived there but when i talked to james (renner) about it (he visited the neighborhood, he said that house was occupied by one older man and that the marottes lived somewhere else down the road. I may have misunderstood him or he may have misunderstood what i was asking.

They lived at 43 Wild Ammonoosuc Rd
Woodsville, NH 03785-4423

Maybe Mrs. Marcotte died since 2004, which maybe why Renner said only an old man lived at that address? I'll see if I can figure that out . . .

Did a Social Security Death Index search and didn't find her, so either she is still alive and living on that road or she moved. She could be in a nursing home perhaps or Renner got it wrong?

 

[scoops]

They lived at 43 Wild Ammonoosuc Rd
Woodsville, NH 03785-4423

Maybe Mrs. Marcotte died since 2004, which maybe why Renner said only an old man lived at that address? I'll see if I can figure that out . . .

Did a Social Security Death Index search and didn't find her, so either she is still alive and living on that road or she moved. She could be in a nursing home perhaps or Renner got it wrong?

yeah McSpy,

I went back and found my correspondence with James concerning that and I do believe that the house (that was closest to maura's car) was the marottes. It makes sense that they would witness something that night. (except there is a big tree-line right in front of their house, so I am unclear how they could see maura or her car that night. When i visited her accident site, i couldn't see the marottes house from the road at all.)

I described to james a long drive way and i think that is where the confusion came from, he thought a long drive way (in that vincinity) led to a house (with no electricity) where an older man was living completely off the grid. James heard the man was harmless.

I also looked up addresses for both the marottes and westman's just to try and pinpoint locations and something is fishy about those addresses (westman's is 70 wild ammonoosuc rd.). when you type those in to google maps for instance one of the residences comes up near the start of rt. 112 where you would turn onto it off of the 302 and the other address shows up well east of the accident site.

 

[McSpy]

yeah McSpy,

I went back and found my correspondence with James concerning that and I do believe that the house (that was closest to maura's car) was the marottes. It makes sense that they would witness something that night. (except there is a big tree-line right in front of their house, so I am unclear how they could see maura or her car that night. When i visited her accident site, i couldn't see the marottes house from the road at all.)

I described to james a long drive way and i think that is where the confusion came from, he thought a long drive way (in that vincinity) led to a house (with no electricity) where an older man was living completely off the grid. James heard the man was harmless.

I also looked up addresses for both the marottes and westman's just to try and pinpoint locations and something is fishy about those addresses (westman's is 70 wild ammonoosuc rd.). when you type those in to google maps for instance one of the residences comes up near the start of rt. 112 where you would turn onto it off of the 302 and the other address shows up well east of the accident site.

I know what you mean about google maps, they aren't always precise. I also noticed that the street numbers on Wild Ammonoosuc Rd. are weird. 43 is practically across the street from 70 and 4 is a very short walk down the road on the same side of 70. However, I think the Marcottes were pretty close to the accident. Close enough to hear it and to have seen movement, even if it was through the trees. JMO

 

[scoops]

I know what you mean about google maps, they aren't always precise. I also noticed that the street numbers on Wild Ammonoosuc Rd. are weird. 43 is practically across the street from 70 and 4 is a very short walk down the road on the same side of 70. However, I think the Marcottes were pretty close to the accident. Close enough to hear it and to have seen movement, even if it was through the trees. JMO

Yeah and now that I think about it further. I visited the accident location in the summer. The tree-line would be a whole lot different in the winter time. It would probably be easier to see things past it out on the road.

Boy that house is awful close to where maura's car ended up. I would think the marotte's would definitely hear something if some kind of commotion took place by the car like someone trying to force maura into a vehicle.