NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#29

[Timmy]

:goodpost:

Very good analysis. Thank you. I have always thought the no. 2 scenario was more likely, however his enquiries about life insurance now place me in a confused state.

I think the confusion between premeditation vs spur of the moment arises from the fact that it involves both of these. I think there is some degree of premeditation in that he had financial woes that needed to be sorted and the idea of the insurance had come into his thoughts and he had started to play out in his mind that this could be the answer to all of his problems-financial and otherwise- but the actual murder may have been in the heat of the moment with no real planning of exactly 'how' and 'when' it would happen and that it is why there have been so many mistakes in the cover up. IMO

 

[CaseClosed]

Husband on wife DV killings very rarely involve attempts to hide the body. It's so rare that I can't recall one in Qld. The heat of passion killings involve quick calls to ooo and an attempt to spin it as an accident or provocation.

So, statistically/historically, we could then conclude that there was some level of premeditation in this case, which would also be supported by the alleged evidence of enquiries about life insurance. I still find it hard to believe that someone else was involved in the pre-planning, although it is more credible that there was help in the cover-up stage. IMO.

 

[CaseClosed]

I think the confusion between premeditation vs spur of the moment arises from the fact that it involves both of these. I think there is some degree of premeditation in that he had financial woes that needed to be sorted and the idea of the insurance had come into his thoughts and he had started to play out in his mind that this could be the answer to all of his problems-financial and otherwise- but the actual murder may have been in the heat of the moment with no real planning of exactly 'how' and 'when' it would happen and that it is why there have been so many mistakes in the cover up. IMO

Yes, well said! I had not looked at it that way, but I fully agree with you.

 

[Hawkins]

I suspect the alleged cause of death won't involve an escalating dispute leading to sudden lethal violence on that night MOO.

 

[CaseClosed]

Yes, as far as I recall, more forensic tests were being conducted and something was sent to WA and/or Melbourne for testing. These test results, which may take weeks, were not available at the time of the bail hearing. The hearing scheduled for July 9 so far as I understand is for a committal mention only. This is done to keep it in the list for the future, and it will likely be referred for a further mention on that date. Unless something dramatic happens of course - such as a very early plea of guilty by the charged person. Highly unlikely IMO.

My understanding is that on July 9 he will have to enter a plea (not guilty or guilty) and then a trial date (not guilty plea) or sentencing hearing date (guilty plea) will be set.

 

[Aunty]

A thought and a personal story.

Did Allison have acrylic/gel nails?

Quite a few years ago i was sitting in bed and my 'partner' at the time came in the room. We argued about him being out with other women and his lies surrounding this and he became violent and started to choke me, pushing me back onto the bed. It wasn't intended to kill me but to 'shut' me up in the heat of the moment. I scratched at him to get him off me and scratched his face and his several areas on his chest and upper arms straight through the t-shirt he was wearing. I also managed to tear the shirt a little. I had acrylic nails at the time.

The choking caused blood to flow freely from both my nostrils and blood went all over the bed and that is when he let go... The next day I didn't really have any marks on the skin on my throat. But he had large scratches on his chest and face.

I wonder if, for poor Allison a similar thing happened but with the life insurance prize, he didn't stop choking, he continued until she was dead.

appleblossom My blood pressure rose as I Read your post.
I actually feel sick, as what you have described , is probably pretty close to what may have happened to poor dear Allison.
Thank God you are still alive. That Fuc_ Wit :banghead:
Hugs *advertiser censored*lease:

 

[louisepiglet]

I would love to see how those two messages compare to ones he sent on other days. My texts to the other half tend to be "Get milk pls?", "Where are you?", "Visitors due in 10, how far off are you?", "Leaving supermarket, home shortly". The salutation and sign off strike me as unnatural, but maybe it's my communication style that's odd, not his.

I agree. My hubby and I don't sign off our messages with our names or initials.
It says our names at the top of the screen. And if I was worried about him I would not text I would keep calling.

 

[Lu-Lu]

LOL. Guys she sluethed me to here via my facebook page.(Accidently)

Had you not told me that the post I quote was you, I would have been none the wiser.

We also have mutual real estate friends and I have not asked them either.

We do..? :waitasec: Obviously someone we used to work with. They're not on our mutual friends on FB. I obviously not added them yet. Hmm, going to go through your friends list now to see who I know, but haven't added. Lol!

ETA... Were they on the pub crawl??

 

[KG1]

My understanding is that on July 9 he will have to enter a plea (not guilty or guilty) and then a trial date (not guilty plea) or sentencing hearing date (guilty plea) will be set.

No, as it first has to be established ifthere is sufficient evidence to commit the charged person to trial. 9 July is only a committal mention. It may be that a committal hearing will commence on that day, but as it is set down for committal mention only, that is unlikely. A committal hearing will take place in the future, once all the evidence is back, and then that evidence will be examined in a committal hearing to ascertain if it is sufficiently probative (providing proof or evidence) to send the charge to a trial. So there will likely be quite a long period before there is a committal hearing.

 

[kalamityk]

No, as it first has to be established ifthere is sufficient evidence to commit the charged person to trial. 9 July is only a committal mention. It may be that a committal hearing will commenc on that day, but as it is set down for committal mention only, that is unlikely. A committal hearing will take place in the future, once all the evidence is back, and then that evidence will be examined in a committal hearingto ascertain if it is sufficiently probative (providing proof or evidence) to send the charge to a trial. So there will likely be quite a long period before there is a committal hearing.

so .. if he pleads guilty on July 9 ? not that he will of course:banghead:

 

[Aussie_expat.sg]

I think the key is to teach our daughters that they are not "one half" of a couple by "one whole" on their own. So many women think that without a partner they are not "complete", which IMO is so sad. Women have to love themselves BEFORE loving someone else. With sons, they need to be taught IMO that women are not their servants, they are not their property and they are equal to them. Women are their "partners", with equal say and shared duties, whether that be income producing or raising children or household chores. IMO.

CC, this is a great post! I could not agree more.

I've taught my daughter and son these principles and over the last 20 years (I brought them up alone, ex departed with a younger model) watched them grow into wonderful adults. HOWEVER, I do see that there is conflict for my daughter as she is approaching the age of worrying about finding someone in order to have children. It is a powerful innate urge. In all other ways I think she is quite happy to be an individual. Worries me. Even though we talk of adoption, and I would fully support her, not easy to do on your own.

I worry that the very POWERFUL urge to have kids (she has spent months in remote 3rd world countries helping kids with Aids, and kids in traumatic family situations) will cause her to choose a less than desirable man. She doesn't suffer fools, and isn't attracted to soft, gently dedicated men. arrggghhh.

 

[regret]

This is so true Regret......an unfortunate and devastating consequence of a horrid crime that has repercussions for children not yet born. I can so understand and relate to this for reasons other than murder though. Any personal crime and even a child losing a parent for reasons aside from murder also has the capacity for these effects through the genertions. All my humble opinion.

War....torture....suicide....adoption...mental illness.....sometimes I think we waft around in an illusory world of 'my life is what I make of it'....without paying our dues to the fact that inherited or consequential baggage is part of the equation - a very real part. Don't know anyone without at least some.....and although some baggage evokes sympathy and understanding, some is socially isolating by its very nature. Mind you, it only takes one or two brave souls willing to walk with you to feel like you have an army of support.

And thus ends today's dose of cosmic pondering. Mr Hawkins and Doc Watson need two comfy chairs, a bottle of scotch, and a good fire. I suspect that, professional expertise aside, they are both poets at heart. I volunteer to be the fly on the wall.

Adieu

 

[CaseClosed]

CC, this is a great post! I could not agree more.

I've taught my daughter and son these principles and over the last 20 years (I brought them up alone, ex departed with a younger model) watched them grow into wonderful adults. HOWEVER, I do see that there is conflict for my daughter as she is approaching the age of worrying about finding someone in order to have children. It is a powerful innate urge. In all other ways I think she is quite happy to be an individual. Worries me. Even though we talk of adoption, and I would fully support her, not easy to do on your own.

I worry that the very POWERFUL urge to have kids (she has spent months in remote 3rd world countries helping kids with Aids, and kids in traumatic family situations) will cause her to choose a less than desirable man. She doesn't suffer fools, and isn't attracted to soft, gently dedicated men. arrggghhh.

I agree that wanting children has an impact on this decision, but if one falls in love with the wrong type, there is not need to stay married and suffer or risk abuse. I have been a single mum for 8 years and like you, we both know it can be done alone. Not easy, but perfectly achievable.

 

[CaseClosed]

No, as it first has to be established ifthere is sufficient evidence to commit the charged person to trial. 9 July is only a committal mention. It may be that a committal hearing will commence on that day, but as it is set down for committal mention only, that is unlikely. A committal hearing will take place in the future, once all the evidence is back, and then that evidence will be examined in a committal hearing to ascertain if it is sufficiently probative (providing proof or evidence) to send the charge to a trial. So there will likely be quite a long period before there is a committal hearing.

Thanks for clarifying. Will he or won't' he have to enter a plea on July 9?

 

[DrWatson]

I agree. My hubby and I don't sign off our messages with our names or initials.
It says our names at the top of the screen. And if I was worried about him I would not text I would keep calling.

Just as a point of difference, my wife and I have a pet hate in common, and that is people who do NOT sign their texts. We get several texts from people who are either not in our address book, or who have changed their phone plan/SIM (one in particular - I think she only ever uses pre-paid SIMS that she then throws away - new number every couple of weeks). So their name does NOT come up on the screen - just the number that we don't recognize.

So, as it has become a bit of a "thing", we almost always sign our texts to each other "Love X" and a couple of those iPhone Imoji emoticons. When I send one to her, I always use the one that is a lady's shoe, followed by a rose, a kiss, and a thumbs-up...!

Yeah, I know we're weird that way. :rocker: It's become something of a standing joke.

PS: hope my new signature tag doesn't offend anyone...

 

[CaseClosed]

Just as a point of difference, my wife and I have a pet hate in common, and that is people who do NOT sign their texts. We get several texts from people who are either not in our address book, or who have changed their phone plan/SIM (one in particular - I think she only ever uses pre-paid SIMS that she then throws away - new number every couple of weeks). So their name does NOT come up on the screen - just the number that we don't recognize.

So, as it has become a bit of a "thing", we almost always sign our texts to each other "Love X" and a couple of those iPhone Imoji emoticons. When I send one to her, I always use the one that is a lady's shoe, followed by a rose, a kiss, and a thumbs-up...!

Yeah, I know we're weird that way. :rocker: It's become something of a standing joke.

PS: hope my new signature tag doesn't offend anyone...

To friends or acquaintances I sign with my Initial, to a partner I would sign "Love u *advertiser censored*", to others is my full first name. Everybody is different.

 

[Opinionsgalore]

Just as a point of difference, my wife and I have a pet hate in common, and that is people who do NOT sign their texts. We get several texts from people who are either not in our address book, or who have changed their phone plan/SIM (one in particular - I think she only ever uses pre-paid SIMS that she then throws away - new number every couple of weeks). So their name does NOT come up on the screen - just the number that we don't recognize.

So, as it has become a bit of a "thing", we almost always sign our texts to each other "Love X" and a couple of those iPhone Imoji emoticons. When I send one to her, I always use the one that is a lady's shoe, followed by a rose, a kiss, and a thumbs-up...!

Yeah, I know we're weird that way. :rocker: It's become something of a standing joke.

PS: hope my new signature tag doesn't offend anyone...

Ohmigosh, that's just the sweetest, most adorable thing ever (signing off with cute emoticons to your wife), you made my day


IMO
JMO
MOO

 

[Dodo]

Ha, Dr Watson, I thought your 'tagline' was someone replying to your post and disrespecting you!!!rofl. Glad you clarified as sure you wouldn't be putting yourself down. yes, it is 'all good'! Lol

 

[KG1]

so .. if he pleads guilty on July 9 ? not that he will of course:banghead:

He may indicate a plea of guilty by that date to his legal reps, but as I understand, he would not be required to enter a plea until after being committed. Why would a plea be entered before testing of the evidence to ascertain if it is sufficient to commit to a trial?

 

[KG1]

Thanks for clarifying. Will he or won't' he have to enter a plea on July 9?

No, he won't. As aforesaid it is only a mention date - to keep it on the court list. This is done periodically by the court - to ensure that the matter is not buried in time.