NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #13

[fasteddy4]

Having said all that about PEPCON, I have sincere doubts whether some cell tower engineer/tech would name a tower for a rocket fuel plant that wasn't there any more. Even if the tower was built in say. . .1999. . .that would be 10 years after. Granted, where PEPCON used to be is in the vicinity of Whitney Ranch, no doubt about it but there is no way Steven could get from N. Las Vegas to Stephanie and the 215 in like five minutes. That's like 20 minutes minimum.

And I should say. . .for the record. . .even if it was 1999, there was very little of anything in that area in 1999. The 215 did not even become a full-fledged highway until like 2002? 2003? Something like that, at least on the East side.

 

[RubyRed]

Nice catch on that guys. . .uh. . .girls. I missed it myself. I think GW's explanation of that call just went right out the window. We always thought his recollection of that call was lame. I guess we underestimated how lame it really was.

What does it mean? Could that have been a "meetup" call and that is the reason it was so short? Was GW the one who gave Steven directions to SCA? DId GW hook Steven up with someone?

Now our imaginations are just going to run wild. . .

Yeah, I often wondered if GW was standing next to SK on a call. He wasn't but was darn close.

 

[fasteddy4]

Correction. . .PEPCON happened in 1988. It blew out windows four miles away. Luckily, there wasn't much in that four mile radius. But, a friend of mine was at Basic High School on the toilet when it happened. All the windows blew out. . .scared the. . .uh. . .crap out of him. Literally.

 

[sbakker]

Yeah, I often wondered if GW was standing next to SK on a call. He wasn't but was darn close.

Oh Ruby, you and I think so much alike! Sorry, but I said GW so many times in my posts. Just a feeling has been and still is.

 

[fasteddy4]

For those of you that think Steven used his own cell phone on Dec. 14. It is happenings like this that make me think he didn't. . .

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/2...heads-neighbor-military-base/?test=latestnews

 

[SleuthyMcSleutherson]

I'll be near Pecos Rd in NLV on Sunday or Monday. If I drive that way, what exactly should I be looking for? The cell towers I've noticed around town are the ones with the big fake pine tree branches surrounding them. I'm guessing they're not all that obvious?? Also, where on Pecos Rd is the Pecos tower? I'll see if I can start there and find something "rocket" related.

 

[SleuthyMcSleutherson]

I was just reviewing an article about Steven from earlier. This quote stood out to me, since we were discussing whether or not SK had been to Vegas before.

"He's a great guy who has always been spontaneous," said Naegle, who lives in Layton. "It was normal for him to just out of the blue drive somewhere like Vegas to visit friends or go to a party or [church] ward activity."

I wonder if this was just an off the cuff remark or if SK really has friends in LV.

 

[rd_jfc]

Unfortunately, most of the people who live here don't even know where the plant used to be or that it even blew up. Moreover, the people who live in the apartments that sit right on that ground now for sure don't even know it.

But for anyone that is interested, the site used to be around the area of Stephanie/Wigwam and Gibson/Wigwam. You will see how many buildings that are there now. But, in the original video of that explosion there is absolutely nothing there except for PEPCON and a marshmallow plant that got leveled in the blast. Just shows you how big Vegas and Henderson have gotten since 1989 when it happened. Any true local will tell you where they were when the thing went off. . .it left quite an impression.

The name isn't for the convenience of locals. It's named by engineers who refer to significant landmarks. The PEPCON site is a significant historical area in Henderson. That is the kind of thing engineers do.

rd

 

[rd_jfc]

LOL, great minds think alike.

too funny. We really do think alike, Ruby.

rd

 

[rd_jfc]

Having said all that about PEPCON, I have sincere doubts whether some cell tower engineer/tech would name a tower for a rocket fuel plant that wasn't there any more. Even if the tower was built in say. . .1999. . .that would be 10 years after. Granted, where PEPCON used to be is in the vicinity of Whitney Ranch, no doubt about it but there is no way Steven could get from N. Las Vegas to Stephanie and the 215 in like five minutes. That's like 20 minutes minimum.

And I should say. . .for the record. . .even if it was 1999, there was very little of anything in that area in 1999. The 215 did not even become a full-fledged highway until like 2002? 2003? Something like that, at least on the East side.

That is a grave error, eddy. You are trying to force facts to perception.

rd

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

I was just reviewing an article about Steven from earlier. This quote stood out to me, since we were discussing whether or not SK had been to Vegas before.



I wonder if this was just an off the cuff remark or if SK really has friends in LV.

Even though he hadn't been there in years??? Family needs to get stories straight.

 

[fasteddy4]

Even though he hadn't been there in years??? Family needs to get stories straight.

In April, when his family was done here, I point blank asked his mother the last time she knew Steven was in Las Vegas. She said it was at least a few years ago on a family trip. And she did not say anything about Steven having any friends in Las Vegas.

So, you're right, that quote is odd. It's even odder because Naegle is a contributor here but I don't remember her ever saying anything on here about Steven having friends in Vegas. It might have just been an off-the-cuff remark by Naegle, maybe a bit of an embellishment. The reason I think that is because there still have been no cell phone records on Dec. 13 or on any date before that where Steven was talking to anyone in the 702 area code which is Las Vegas and Clark County.

Once again, this could come back to computer conversations over email and Instant Messenger, and not on a phone. Very possible. But, it just seems that if that is the case, Steven did not make one identifiable mistake regarding talking to someone in Vegas. Not one loose email. Not one strange cell phone conversation. I think sooner or later he would slip up or whoever he was talking to would slip up.

I am going to dismiss the quote as just an embellishment but I'll keep an open mind.

 

[RubyRed]

For reference here is the map that takes you to where Pepcon was located.

http://www.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&....034941,-115.030375&spn=0.001063,0.001829&t=h

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEPCON_disaster

 

[fasteddy4]

That is a grave error, eddy. You are trying to force facts to perception.

rd

Well, no matter how hard I use my perception, a cell phone tower in N. Las Vegas and a cell phone tower in Henderson are not going to get any closer together. That's a fact. And we've identified for sure that Pecos Tower is in N. Las Vegas and we know the length of the call. . .a few minutes. And it's a fact that there is no way a person can legally drive from N. Las Vegas to Henderson in a few minutes. So, where am I forcing facts to my perception?

As far as what engineers do, it's not like PEPCON was a decisive battle in the Civil War or anything like that. It was an explosion. That's it. It might be a date that will live in infamy for the locals who were here at the time but they are in a small minority now, probably less than 25 percent. Over 1.5 million people have moved here since 1988.

It just seems to me that the towers we have identified so far. . .Arroyo Grande, Whitney Ranch, Cactus/Bermuda, Southern Highlands, etc. . .are named for easily identifiable streets in Las Vegas or Henderson. Even Pecos tower, although it's not where everyone originally thought, now makes sense now that we know that Pecos runs near where that tower is in N. Las Vegas. So, after naming all of these towers for current streets or areas in town, why would someone go way off the board and name a tower after an obscure reference that isn't there anymore? Why just not call the tower PEPCON, if that's the case? An Ocean Spray plant is there now. Why not name it Ocean Spray? It just seems that from the facts we know cell phone companies identify their towers according to current landmarks and streets.

That would be like if I had six kids and I named the first five Bob, Harry, Jennifer, Michael, Diane. . .and the sixth child I named Toshiba.

And for the record, I think this is all moot because laytonian has already identified every cell phone tower and found the names of those towers in the vicinity of where PEPCON used to be. The Arroyo Grande tower is very close to the old site. The cell phone tower at Gibson at the 215 is also very close as well. And they are surely enough to cover the area where PEPCON used to be.

I am convinced that the Rocket tower is up in N. Las Vegas or in the north area of the City of Las Vegas. We just haven't found it yet. And I plan to go look for myself today up in N. Las Vegas as to not allow my perceptions to take over my life. . .:crazy:

 

[fasteddy4]

More info. . .because I have time on my hands. And rd_jfc, you will especially find this interesting. And laytonian, being that you did the research on cell tower names, do you have names for all the cell towers going down East Craig Rd. starting at the intersection of Craig and the I-15. Here is the reason I ask:

First, I drove from where PEPCON blew up to where the "Pecos" tower is. It's 22 miles. I drove it in about 20 1/2 minutes. You can figure out my average speed from that but I think I got passed once. I was moving! So, I think that puts to rest any ideas that the one call started in North Las Vegas and ended in Henderson.

Second, I drove the whole way up to the racetrack. Circled around, took a street headed down toward Nellis and then did a u-turn and came back. I saw cell phone towers all over the place. As laytonian has said, they are like trees in Las Vegas. They are all over the place. So, I headed back out to the I-15 and went south. I got off at Lamb and eventually found my way to the Pecos Tower. I was within 100 yards of it. And all you people who think he ran off with a woman are going to love this. . .the tower is right across the street from a women's correctional facility. That's a fact. Barbed wire, fences, the whole bit. You can see it in a satellite photo. I knew it was there I just did not know the tower and the facility were so close.

Third (or next), I labored to figure out what tower "rocket" might be. rd_jfc. . .you will love this. (I am partially correct, you were partially correct. . .I think). So, I'm driving around. I go up and down Nellis. Up and down Craig. All the while I am keeping in mind that this conversation that started on tower "Pecos" was not that long. So, this tower has to be close. . .very close. So, I go to the Pilot Truck Stop and I go north on that extension of Pecos, where it turns into Mitchell. I follow it around and I see it is going to connect with Lamb. Well, I look off to my right and there is a street. The street's name? Vandenberg. And what happens at Vandenberg? They shoot rockets off there. Only a geek like me would know that. In fact, all of those streets in that area. . .McGuire, Andrews, and Vandenberg are named after Air Force Bases. Useless info. . .I am full of it.

Fourth (or so. . .), I do a u-turn and go down Vandenberg. Non-descript street in an industrial area. Warehouses, etc. And just as I am about to get to Craig (By the way, you can follow all of this on Google Maps), off to my left is what. . .a cell phone tower. A small one. Not a lot of panels and not very high. It is tucked behind a big building. Laytonian, do you have a name for that tower? It is NE of the intersection of Craig/Vandenberg. If you do not, I believe this is the "rocket" tower because Vandenberg and rockets go together.

But, here's the kicker. . .if Steven was on the I-15, I don't believe his phone would have picked up that tower. The "Pecos" tower is much closer to the I-15. And there is a tower at Craig and Mitchell, across the street from the truck stop, that is much closer as well. I mean, I know it's conjecture. We can't be sure how these cell phone towers exactly work but, as I said last night, I have a friend who works on E. Craig. I called him a bit ago. He also doubted that tower at Craig/Vandenberg would have overriding coverage on the I-15. And that gives us a quandry. . .maybe Steven was not on the I-15 at all, maybe he was on the surface streets? All I am saying is that it is a possibility. Especially if we determine that that tower at Van and Craig is the "rocket" tower.

Because otherwise, I didn't see any other reference to a "rocket" in the area. No landmarks. No stores. No streets with the name "rocket". I went west/north on Lamb out that way away from the I-15. I went to the other side of the I-15 on Craig. Nothing. But like I said, until you actually drive it, you realize that a couple minutes goes LIKE THAT in a car. It's not like he would miles and miles away from the Pecos tower. That rocket tower would have to be like the next one over in line, whichever direction he was headed. I used my cellphone's stopwatch to time my travel. Time goes quickly.

I should say that even more so now I think GW's story is crap. Had a chance to sleep on it. It stinks more now than it did in January, definitely.

I think I have given you all enough to chew on for a few hours. . .at least.

 

[rd_jfc]

Well, no matter how hard I use my perception, a cell phone tower in N. Las Vegas and a cell phone tower in Henderson are not going to get any closer together. That's a fact. And we've identified for sure that Pecos Tower is in N. Las Vegas and we know the length of the call. . .a few minutes. And it's a fact that there is no way a person can legally drive from N. Las Vegas to Henderson in a few minutes. So, where am I forcing facts to my perception?

As far as what engineers do, it's not like PEPCON was a decisive battle in the Civil War or anything like that. It was an explosion. That's it. It might be a date that will live in infamy for the locals who were here at the time but they are in a small minority now, probably less than 25 percent. Over 1.5 million people have moved here since 1988.

It just seems to me that the towers we have identified so far. . .Arroyo Grande, Whitney Ranch, Cactus/Bermuda, Southern Highlands, etc. . .are named for easily identifiable streets in Las Vegas or Henderson. Even Pecos tower, although it's not where everyone originally thought, now makes sense now that we know that Pecos runs near where that tower is in N. Las Vegas. So, after naming all of these towers for current streets or areas in town, why would someone go way off the board and name a tower after an obscure reference that isn't there anymore? Why just not call the tower PEPCON, if that's the case? An Ocean Spray plant is there now. Why not name it Ocean Spray? It just seems that from the facts we know cell phone companies identify their towers according to current landmarks and streets.

That would be like if I had six kids and I named the first five Bob, Harry, Jennifer, Michael, Diane. . .and the sixth child I named Toshiba.

And for the record, I think this is all moot because laytonian has already identified every cell phone tower and found the names of those towers in the vicinity of where PEPCON used to be. The Arroyo Grande tower is very close to the old site. The cell phone tower at Gibson at the 215 is also very close as well. And they are surely enough to cover the area where PEPCON used to be.

I am convinced that the Rocket tower is up in N. Las Vegas or in the north area of the City of Las Vegas. We just haven't found it yet. And I plan to go look for myself today up in N. Las Vegas as to not allow my perceptions to take over my life. . .:crazy:

lol well said, eddy. The deal is that when roads run long distances that areas of town are used in the name to say where on the road it is located. The rocket fuel plant is more than a landmark that no longer exists, it is a significant historical area of town to people that work with the depth that engineers do in laying out these infrastruture projects.

I would first question the establishment of the first cell tower you're referring to in N. Las Vegas. Up until yesterday it was on a map down near SCA. All of a sudden it was decided that it was really in N. Las Vegas. Was the reasoning used any sounder than Rocket must refer to a retail store? I would submit that it can't be that sound if it's flipping around between E. LV and N. LV, no aspersion intended to people trying to make sense of deliberately obscufated information (national security?, what a crock that is).

I would also consider the intriguing implications in SK at 8am Sunday morning being in the same area that he would return to after walking away from his car. The thought that he was driving into town at 8am has one impact on the analysis, my suspicions that SK did not return to his room Saturday night and went to LV impacts my analysis in the same way. I do not believe he got up at 5:30am and started driving to Vegas and just happened to be entering Vegas at 8am when GW called.

IIRC, he also started out his drive to Ruby Valley late at night as well, so it fits the pattern. Also, he called someone around time entering his apartment and leaving. My repeated questions about it are never answered, so I guess that's another of those secret agreements with family not to disclose, or else no one that knows is reading my questions.

So getting back to names, yes, imo towers are named for geographic landmarks such as streets, roads, towns, and certainly areas of town. They most assuredly are not named for random retail locations that could go out of business or change name the next day.

Just my opinion. Your insight into the city and this case is invaluable, eddy. thanks.

rd

 

[dovebar]

Did Steven's car have working air conditioning? If not, that could help explain the night driving preference. Some people prefer to drive at night just so they don't need to use their AC in these areas (gets too cold, lulls you to sleep with the dead air, etc.)

 

[laytonian]

I was just reviewing an article about Steven from earlier. This quote stood out to me, since we were discussing whether or not SK had been to Vegas before.

""It was normal for him to just out of the blue drive somewhere like Vegas to visit friends or go to a party or [church] ward activity."

I wonder if this was just an off the cuff remark or if SK really has friends in LV.

(BBM)

I think she was just saying it was common for him to drive around; we've got lots of such trips documented on the timeline.

Obviously, with Steven living hundreds of miles away from home for 8 months, they really don't know one way or another whether he'd been in Vegas more recently than the family thing a few years before .

 

[laytonian]

I would first question the establishment of the first cell tower you're referring to in N. Las Vegas. Up until yesterday it was on a map down near SCA. All of a sudden it was decided that it was really in N. Las Vegas. Was the reasoning used any sounder than Rocket must refer to a retail store?

I have no idea what "rocket" is. I'd be looking for old Rocket Fuel/Gas stations (they existed in the western states, until a few years ago). Or rocket-shaped signs.

BUT...I think the fact that an AT&T customer's cell phone hit an AT&T tower named PECOS is a pretty good locator for that particular call.

I do know what calls can zap around town on various towers, but this particular one is more on the outskirts -- and we're talking about the slowest time of the week: early on a Sunday morning.

 

[laytonian]

I'll be near Pecos Rd in NLV on Sunday or Monday. If I drive that way, what exactly should I be looking for? The cell towers I've noticed around town are the ones with the big fake pine tree branches surrounding them. I'm guessing they're not all that obvious?? Also, where on Pecos Rd is the Pecos tower? I'll see if I can start there and find something "rocket" related.

The AT&T tower named PECOS isn't on Pecos Blvd; it's in the middle of the junkyards, out near Lamb Blvd.

5380 NOVAK
LAS VEGAS, NV 89115
AT&T Pecos Tower AT&T Page

If I were looking for "rocket" and in the northern part of LV, I'd check to see if there was a missile on display outside one of the Nellis AFB gates -- and then see if there was a cell tower nearby.

Who else has rockets and missiles, besides the Department of Defense? Well, of course, the old Rocket gas stations. Maybe there's an old one in that area?