NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #17

[carbuff]

I'm so sorry - I don't understand!!!

If you have ATT cell service, you have a separate number that you call to get your stored messages. You get a notice that there is a message, then you dial the central number to retrieve it. I'm not sure but I think it's the same central number for everybody in the area code.

Anybody can dial into that voicemail number and leave a message for anyone on the system. You can also send a voice message to any number -- I don't think it has to be just an ATT number -- without making a call to that number.

I've done it a time or two when when spouse is hiking and I know the phone is unreachable -- it's quicker than waiting for the phone to ring however many times and then go through its big menu. Never occurred to me that you could use it to hide your tracks.

 

[carbuff]

I guess I still don't understand.

All calls to my voicemail are by calling my own phone number; there's no other voicemail number. (There used to be, when we had a landline.)

From what I can see from the phone records, he was "screening" his calls.
There's an incoming call, then a VM check.
They're all tied to known people.

I could be wrong, but if some "secret" VM scheme was being used, wouldn't there be some urgency, and he'd call to check VM more than five times in the last 48 hours?

9:19am, Dec 12th
9:02pm, Dec 12th
5:36pm, Dec 13th
7:58pm, Dec 13th
7:04am, Dec 14th

Very few incoming calls, very few VM checks....

The urgency would depend on the information being communicated. If everything had been arranged earlier, it might be as simple as "when you get the notice, that means it's a go."

It also doesn't have to be a "scheme." People who are accustomed to working in office contexts often prefer to leave voice mails rather than taking time to type, especially if they're already in voice mail for other reasons. So it could have been accidental that a critical message was sent in a way that left no trace.

 

[laytonian]

The urgency would depend on the information being communicated. If everything had been arranged earlier, it might be as simple as "when you get the notice, that means it's a go."

It also doesn't have to be a "scheme." People who are accustomed to working in office contexts often prefer to leave voice mails rather than taking time to type, especially if they're already in voice mail for other reasons. So it could have been accidental that a critical message was sent in a way that left no trace.

A scheme or a plan; it'd still be a purposeful method to circumvent detection.

But IF he was communicating with someone in that manner, wouldn't he and the other person always communicate that way?

If so, that removes a LOT of people from the suspicious list.

 

[carbuff]

A scheme or a plan; it'd still be a purposeful method to circumvent detection.

But IF he was communicating with someone in that manner, wouldn't he and the other person always communicate that way?

If so, that removes a LOT of people from the suspicious list.

Well, no, I'm saying that hiding the contact might not have been intentional. Somebody who normally works by phone, say making sales calls or something, might well have squeezed in a personal phone call between the work calls, and just left the message directly because they didn't have time to talk.

Oh, that's the other reason for leaving a message directly: if you don't want to actually have a conversation.

 

[laytonian]

Well, no, I'm saying that hiding the contact might not have been intentional. Somebody who normally works by phone, say making sales calls or something, might well have squeezed in a personal phone call between the work calls, and just left the message directly because they didn't have time to talk.

Oh, that's the other reason for leaving a message directly: if you don't want to actually have a conversation.

...or they just text, which went on A LOT

 

[carbuff]

...or they just text, which went on A LOT

Yes.

I mean, potentially there would only need to be one missing message that would make everything else make sense.

 

[laytonian]

Yes.

I mean, potentially there would only need to be one missing message that would make everything else make sense.

The messages themselves could be deleted, but the record of them wouldn't be. It's all part of billing activity.

 

[carbuff]

The messages themselves could be deleted, but the record of them wouldn't be. It's all part of billing activity.

ATT doesn't bill for voice messages, only texts. If the message was deleted and the records were looked at within two weeks, there might be some information, but even that disappears after a certain quite short time. I'm remembering 16 days.

 

[laytonian]

ATT doesn't bill for voice messages, only texts. If the message was deleted and the records were looked at within two weeks, there might be some information, but even that disappears after a certain quite short time. I'm remembering 16 days.

The VMs, even if not billed, are part of the activity report. There's details there that would take months to decipher.

The records we see, cover the period Dec 9th -16th.
Lots of texts from LL and TH on Dec 12-14, calls from them (and a few others) thereafter.

 

[laytonian]

....of some weird cell phone pings? We have several clustered in the Whitney Ranch area of Vegas --but could those be an anomaly?

Why?

I just stumbled across something I'd forgotten: several news reports about Rose Backhaus who went missing in Goblin Valley, Utah. HER cell phone pinged off a tower that serves Taos, New Mexico. (See
The Moab Times, among other sources.

I know gsmith told us that a cell tower services only a limited area (15 mile radius, I believe he said).

But Goblin Valley and Taos NM are about 300 miles apart, as the crow flies.

IS IT POSSIBLE that Steven walked to a place in the hills, (far from Whitney Ranch) that would have "channelled" his cell phone hits into towers in the Whitney area? Like high on a mountain, in a small canyon?

 

[carbuff]

The VMs, even if not billed, are part of the activity report. There's details there that would take months to decipher.

The records we see, cover the period Dec 9th -16th.
Lots of texts from LL and TH on Dec 12-14, calls from them (and a few others) thereafter.

Why is TH trying so hard to get in touch with him????

 

[seekingsusan]

....of some weird cell phone pings? We have several clustered in the Whitney Ranch area of Vegas --but could those be an anomaly?

Why?

I just stumbled across something I'd forgotten: several news reports about Rose Backhaus who went missing in Goblin Valley, Utah. HER cell phone pinged off a tower that serves Taos, New Mexico. (See
The Moab Times, among other sources.

I know gsmith told us that a cell tower services only a limited area (15 mile radius, I believe he said).

But Goblin Valley and Taos NM are about 300 miles apart, as the crow flies.

IS IT POSSIBLE that Steven walked to a place in the hills, (far from Whitney Ranch) that would have "channelled" his cell phone hits into towers in the Whitney area? Like high on a mountain, in a small canyon?

I like this theory. It makes sense that because there are so few towers in the canyon or in the mountains, that Steven's calls would be routed to the nearest tower in town. Isn't the last tower his phone pings off of (Russell & freeway) pretty close to the foothills? I had never heard of Rose's story; it kinda makes me lose faith in the cell phone pings all together.

 

[laytonian]

I like this theory. It makes sense that because there are so few towers in the canyon or in the mountains, that Steven's calls would be routed to the nearest tower in town. Isn't the last tower his phone pings off of (Russell & freeway) pretty close to the foothills? I had never heard of Rose's story; it kinda makes me lose faith in the cell phone pings all together.

If we only had one ping in the Whitney Ranch area, I could discount it. But they do cluster (even though swjaxon had to guess a bit on a couple of them) -- I'm still trying to pin some down.

The PI and some experts said that the pings could hit all over town -- but we really see order in that map. One tower (Henderson Store COW) was a bit of a guess, but a tower named Whitney Ranch is obviously IN....Whitney Ranch.

You just go a bit further east, and you're in that eastern foothills area where no one's ever searched for him. It could be a crevice or a small canyon. Somewhere that would focus the signal.


Refresher: swjaxon's cell tower pings map

That last ping's only about 2 miles from the hills.

 

[laytonian]

Why is TH trying so hard to get in touch with him????

The innocent explanation is "wondered if he was going to come do more work" .. and maybe a couple of the last ones are "Hey! They're trying to find you to move your car!"

But there's sooooo many. After someone doesn't answer after a few calls, why keep calling and calling? LL did the same thing.

 

[Fairy1]

Here (I HOPE!) is a map of Russell Road and the 95 - which is actually the 515 at this point. 515 runs south/southeast into Henderson from here.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=36.082159,-115.046875&spn=0.009642,0.022638&t=h&z=16

 

[Fairy1]

If we only had one ping in the Whitney Ranch area, I could discount it. But they do cluster (even though swjaxon had to guess a bit on a couple of them) -- I'm still trying to pin some down.

The PI and some experts said that the pings could hit all over town -- but we really see order in that map. One tower (Henderson Store COW) was a bit of a guess, but a tower named Whitney Ranch is obviously IN....Whitney Ranch.

You just go a bit further east, and you're in that eastern foothills area where no one's ever searched for him. It could be a crevice or a small canyon. Somewhere that would focus the signal.


Refresher: swjaxon's cell tower pings map

That last ping's only about 2 miles from the hills.

I don't think we should discount the pings. Considering the locations and where Steven's car was found, they make sense to me. I'm certainly no expert in this area, but it seems to me that in a city the size of Henderson or Vegas, the pinged towers would be fairly close to a person's physical location. I wonder if, in Rose's case, since she was in the middle of nowhere her phone pinged on the first available location? IDK.

That being said, even if all the pings from Steven's phone are spot on, we don't know if that phone was in his possession at that time.

 

[Fairy1]

If you have ATT cell service, you have a separate number that you call to get your stored messages. You get a notice that there is a message, then you dial the central number to retrieve it. I'm not sure but I think it's the same central number for everybody in the area code.

Anybody can dial into that voicemail number and leave a message for anyone on the system. You can also send a voice message to any number -- I don't think it has to be just an ATT number -- without making a call to that number.

I've done it a time or two when when spouse is hiking and I know the phone is unreachable -- it's quicker than waiting for the phone to ring however many times and then go through its big menu. Never occurred to me that you could use it to hide your tracks.

Thank you. We have something similar to this at my work but I've never even thought about it in relation to my cell phone. But I also don't have AT&T.

 

[laytonian]

I don't think we should discount the pings. Considering the locations and where Steven's car was found, they make sense to me. I'm certainly no expert in this area, but it seems to me that in a city the size of Henderson or Vegas, the pinged towers would be fairly close to a person's physical location. I wonder if, in Rose's case, since she was in the middle of nowhere her phone pinged on the first available location? IDK.

That being said, even if all the pings from Steven's phone are spot on, we don't know if that phone was in his possession at that time.

I'm not discounting the pings; I'm thinking of them telling a message, that maybe we should look in a wider circle.

There are cell towers closer to Goblin Valley, than the one Rose Backhaus's phone hit last.

In this case, I'm just wondering if those four pings in the same area mean that the phone was in a static location -- after moving so many times in the past 24 hours. And that static location could be somewhere that the signal got "funneled" into those towers, rather than the signal spreading out around town more.

 

[carbuff]

I'm not discounting the pings; I'm thinking of them telling a message, that maybe we should look in a wider circle.

There are cell towers closer to Goblin Valley, than the one Rose Backhaus's phone hit last.

In this case, I'm just wondering if those four pings in the same area mean that the phone was in a static location -- after moving so many times in the past 24 hours. And that static location could be somewhere that the signal got "funneled" into those towers, rather than the signal spreading out around town more.

You mean like from one of those ravines across the highway and river?

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=112886005716091538510.000486fc415768e7c3a74&ll=36.12401,-114.922829&spn=0.112036,0.308304&z=12

 

[laytonian]

You mean like from one of those ravines across the highway and river?

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=112886005716091538510.000486fc415768e7c3a74&ll=36.12401,-114.922829&spn=0.112036,0.308304&z=12

If not actually in the hills (mountain?), yeah.

Fairy1, which direction do they run? Through town to the southwest, or to the Colorado River?