NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #21

[Fairy1]

Do you know why or have a guess why the ward temple night was never mentioned by LE, the media, or at the presser.....ever? Surely the family or LE had talked to GW in length about his timeline with Steven the week prior.... which would included temple night, yet Mrs. K said nothing about it at the PC (Feb 26'10) while giving her timeline of SK's actions the prior week. In fact, it wouldn't have been possible. It's always bother me, tbh, since nothing was ever mentioned except one person's comment on his FB page and then we were to take "other reliable sources" at face value...not knowing if it was verified by LE. The next time we hear anything about it was the ID show a year and half later.

Favor if you could. The presser was linked to an article you had done when covering it. Is that still available from 8 News Now and possible you could link it here since it seems to be gone from the article? Thanks, swjaxon


***On SK's being reported missing, I believe it was the 17th. SCA left Mrs. K a msg on the 15th, she retrieved it on the 16th and then Mr. K and one of SK's brother's went to Henderson that night then reported him missing the next day.

Steven's attendance at Temple night was corroborated by several people, IIRC. I believe the reason it has never been mentioned specifically in MSM reports is because it occurred several days before Steven went missing. There were a number of other things that occurred in between.

Can you explain why you have an issue with this one particular point?

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

SK's communication with GW is, in my opinion, rather easy to understand when you compare the calls/texts with the context. They all surrounded church services. There were several calls on their ward temple night the week before he disappeared (along with several calls to other church members) and a call the Sunday he disappeared. That's it.

As an aside, when I spoke to GW he said they weren't "good friends" as it has been portrayed -- they knew each other for about six months (my exact time might be off, so don't quote me) from church, and that's it.

Also, if they were not "good friends" why would GW be at the house when SK's father/brother were looking through his stuff? Does not make sense at all.

 

[Fairy1]

Also, if they were not "good friends" why would GW be at the house when SK's father/brother were looking through his stuff? Does not make sense at all.

That's a good point. Also, if GW really did tell Steven, "Do what you gotta do." doesn't that sorta imply he KNEW what Steven had to do? Why, then, would he not follow up to find out how it went?

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

The first call from GW comes when the men are rather close to each other in the Vegas area when supposedly neither of them knew each other was there. This would be an "issue" in almost any other case. Based on where GW was, he could have made the meeting. He was; however, at the 12 meeting, seen by others, when we see SK on tape.

The men at the meeting that morning said they called SK after they learned GW was not going to make the mtg. This info came straight from a gentleman at the meeting and was posted on Facebook. How did they come to find out GW was not going to be there? Wouldn't it be from GW himself? If so, why didn't GW tell the men he already talked to SK?

I think GW got lucky and being in the "circle", LDS, he wasn't even thought of as a possible person who would know anything. I'm in the circle, LDS that is, and unfortunately-NOT always, we want to believe our fellow men are perfect beings, not capable of worldly mistakes.

I feel like GW has info that at the time could have helped SK, but for some reason-religious persecution-chose not to come forward. I do not believe he harmed SK. GW had a lot to lose really...starting a new business in the area, EQ President, and the respect of those in the area.

GW stated that he found paperwork that SK had organizing the Home Teaching. GW said he was not aware that SK was doing this, actually a duty of the EQ President. That's a lot of trouble for SK to go to for no reason, especially if he wasn't asked, and he would be doing it for GW...not even a "good friend".

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

That's a good point. Also, if GW really did tell Steven, "Do what you gotta do." doesn't that sorta imply he KNEW what Steven had to do? Why, then, would he not follow up to find out how it went?

And who says "Do what you gotta do."? That alone didn't fit for me a year and a half ago.

 

[hollyblue]

The first call from GW comes when the men are rather close to each other in the Vegas area when supposedly neither of them knew each other was there. This would be an "issue" in almost any other case. Based on where GW was, he could have made the meeting. He was; however, at the 12 meeting, seen by others, when we see SK on tape.

The men at the meeting that morning said they called SK after they learned GW was not going to make the mtg. This info came straight from a gentleman at the meeting and was posted on Facebook. How did they come to find out GW was not going to be there? Wouldn't it be from GW himself? If so, why didn't GW tell the men he already talked to SK?

I think GW got lucky and being in the "circle", LDS, he wasn't even thought of as a possible person who would know anything. I'm in the circle, LDS that is, and unfortunately-NOT always, we want to believe our fellow men are perfect beings, not capable of worldly mistakes.

I feel like GW has info that at the time could have helped SK, but for some reason-religious persecution-chose not to come forward. I do not believe he harmed SK. GW had a lot to lose really...starting a new business in the area, EQ President, and the respect of those in the area.

GW stated that he found paperwork that SK had organizing the Home Teaching. GW said he was not aware that SK was doing this, actually a duty of the EQ President. That's a lot of trouble for SK to go to for no reason, especially if he wasn't asked, and he would be doing it for GW...not even a "good friend".

This was the very first post with the timeline info.....the call from GW in the morning was not known at that time...per Naegle. ??

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #1


ETA: Steven knew on Sunday, with the conversation to SA, that he would not be attending the basketball game on Wed. So that seems to ask the question...why? It is also known by the leaders of the church then...if not only SA, that SK would not be attending. Was it because SK didn't want to attend..or knew he wouldn't be able to?

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #1

 

[fridaybaker]

I'm sure the six-month timeframe is fairly accurate as Steven had only been in St. George for about 8 months before he went missing. Personally, I am not willing to take GW's word in terms of the context of their calls. And, there is still the question of why the calls/texts stopped abruptly, when they did.

GW said Steven ALWAYS notified him if he was not going to be able to attend a church function. I would love to know how often that occurred and why Steven did NOT call GW on December 13, 2009. The fact that, when they did speak that day, GW said, "Do what you have to do" tells me their conversations were not relegated only to church matters.

I've seen this before here, that GW said that SK ALWAYS called him if he were not going to be able to attend a church function. I'm just trying to get a handle on this. SK's been in the ward for six months. How many church functions does he miss? I know that there are quite a few of them for LDS members, but it just strikes me that six months might be an awfully short time to establish a pattern, unless SK would generally be scheduled or expected to go to quite a few which he ultimately didn't attend. Were any of these ACTUAL "church"? I originally thought that it would be highly unusual for a member to skip church, but maybe not so much?

Also, someone in a much earlier thread mentioned something which has always stuck with me. Why in the world would a person seeking employment move to a SMALLER market? Of course, if he already had something lined up it would make sense, but I just can't wrap my mind around a person moving to a smaller job market to find a job. You generally move to BIGGER markets to find jobs.

....And, the contradiction in some (much) earlier note here from his cousin that one reason he quit the Salt Lake job was because he had a bunch of good friends with whom he could never spend any time, due to his working nights, yet he MADE SURE he wouldn't be able to spend much time with them by moving away! I know, I know. Apparently another reason he gave for moving to St. George was the weather, but that is weak, in my opinion. That seems like a "cover story" -not necessarily in the sense that he's covering up something bad, but maybe feels silly about telling everyone the real reason. A guy quits gainful employment to move, sans job prospect, to an area where he doesn't know anyone, to move into a rental unit with a roommate he doesn't know (and who, apparently, lives a lifestyle QUITE different than that which he professes to like so much -he complained about the "worldliness" of his coworkers in Salt Lake -gee, guess I'll move in to a house with a guy who's totally worldly!--- anyway, none of this adds up for me.

I believe, like some earlier poster said about a thousand posts ago, that his disappearance has something to do with this move. Everything about it is odd, IMO.

 

[believe09]

Swjaxon is a verified insider. Just as a reminder. Please post respectfully to one another-if you can't pass the poster by.

 

[fridaybaker]

Certainly, odds and probabilities are the most logical way to approach it. The thing is, with Steven, we have learned a good deal about him through his friends and family. And when you toss in the facts (travel, phone calls, financial situation, church life, etc.) we do know, you have to look at everything in totality.

IMO, on the face of it, suicide would seem to be the most probable answer. But it has never made sense to me that he would travel to Henderson, NV to do it. Why? There are miles and miles of mountains and wilderness surrounding St. George. If he didn't want his family to discover him, he could easily have accomplished the same goal much closer to home.

I also never could believe that he was lured to a retirement community under false pretenses only to be killed by a stranger. And while I do believe he was in SCA for a specific purpose, I don't think it was for any kind of job interview.
I do believe that whatever led to Steven's disappearance began in St. George, Utah and was also tied to his seemingly manic travels prior to going missing.

Steven didn't live in a vacuum. He was very involved with his church, he was employed (such as it was), he had regular interactions with others and was in touch with his family.

With the exception of the call to the parents of the little girls who were locked out of their house, the phone records didn't reveal calls to or from anyone unknown to Steven. So.......

As a note: I bolded Fairy's ..."and while I do believe...." -sorry, can't figure out how to do "bolded by me"...

Here is my comment. Fairy, you don't think that he was in SCA for any kind of a job interview. Do you have something specific in mind and, if so, can you share it here? I don't recall you putting forth an alternative, although if you have, I'm sorry I don't remember. You have been one dedicated cookie, here, that's for sure! Thanks for all your input.

 

[swjaxon]

I just want to address current rumors that are being floated that the original story I wrote on Steven was edited months later to better reflect the family's timeline.

While I admit the story has been updated since the original post, it was updated to fix a typo, as I addressed on this board over a year ago. Furthermore, if I edited the story to better reflect the timeline, it would not still refer to SK's Ruby Valley trip happening on Dec. 9th.

I am currently of the belief that the RV trip happened on the 10th, making details of my first story, in my mind, erroneous. However, it is not my practice to edit stories months after they have been posted, unless it is to fix typos.

Lastly, I'm all for spirited debate on the case. I will not entertain debate surrounding my integrity. If you don't believe something I post or something I write, that's fine. If you want to allege that I am manipulating the record in an effort to push the case in a certain direction, that's not fine.

 

[SassyBenton]

I've seen this before here, that GW said that SK ALWAYS called him if he were not going to be able to attend a church function. I'm just trying to get a handle on this. SK's been in the ward for six months. How many church functions does he miss? I know that there are quite a few of them for LDS members, but it just strikes me that six months might be an awfully short time to establish a pattern, unless SK would generally be scheduled or expected to go to quite a few which he ultimately didn't attend. Were any of these ACTUAL "church"? I originally thought that it would be highly unusual for a member to skip church, but maybe not so much?

Also, someone in a much earlier thread mentioned something which has always stuck with me. Why in the world would a person seeking employment move to a SMALLER market? Of course, if he already had something lined up it would make sense, but I just can't wrap my mind around a person moving to a smaller job market to find a job. You generally move to BIGGER markets to find jobs.

....And, the contradiction in some (much) earlier note here from his cousin that one reason he quit the Salt Lake job was because he had a bunch of good friends with whom he could never spend any time, due to his working nights, yet he MADE SURE he wouldn't be able to spend much time with them by moving away! I know, I know. Apparently another reason he gave for moving to St. George was the weather, but that is weak, in my opinion. That seems like a "cover story" -not necessarily in the sense that he's covering up something bad, but maybe feels silly about telling everyone the real reason. A guy quits gainful employment to move, sans job prospect, to an area where he doesn't know anyone, to move into a rental unit with a roommate he doesn't know (and who, apparently, lives a lifestyle QUITE different than that which he professes to like so much -he complained about the "worldliness" of his coworkers in Salt Lake -gee, guess I'll move in to a house with a guy who's totally worldly!--- anyway, none of this adds up for me.

I believe, like some earlier poster said about a thousand posts ago, that his disappearance has something to do with this move. Everything about it is odd, IMO.

I hope this doesn’t offend anyone, I’m just merely throwing out ideas here and I know this one has been brought up before at some point.

I agree, SK’s reasons for moving to St. George were weak, to say the least, there had to be some kind of draw to that area other than just being tired of the winters in Salt Lake City. Out of curiosity, I started doing some Google searches for Utah gay population and the following link came up regarding St. George. The third post was what caught my eye. I am not saying that SK was gay, but IF perhaps he was, St. George seems to be the place he would go if he were trying to live a gay lifestyle and stay somewhat close to his family.

Does anyone know if any family members or close friends of SK’s from Salt Lake ever went down there to visit him before he disappeared? Did he take them around, show them his hangout spots, introduce them to his friends? Usually when family or friends from out of town visit, this is what one would do. There seems to be little known about Steven’s life in St. George, other than his church activities and job search. :waitasec:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/st-george/158816-gay-acceptance-st-george.html

 

[Weygand]

I hope this doesn’t offend anyone, I’m just merely throwing out ideas here and I know this one has been brought up before at some point.

I agree, SK’s reasons for moving to St. George were weak, to say the least, there had to be some kind of draw to that area other than just being tired of the winters in Salt Lake City. Out of curiosity, I started doing some Google searches for Utah gay population and the following link came up regarding St. George. The third post was what caught my eye. I am not saying that SK was gay, but IF perhaps he was, St. George seems to be the place he would go if he were trying to live a gay lifestyle and stay somewhat close to his family.

Very real possibility especially with questions raised in the previous threads about the reasons given for his move. The only people it might be offensive to are those especially close to SK. I would imagine that a good number of those here who aren't close to SK have been wondering that too.

Does anyone know if any family members or close friends of SK’s from Salt Lake ever went down there to visit him before he disappeared? Did he take them around, show them his hangout spots, introduce them to his friends? Usually when family or friends from out of town visit, this is what one would do. There seems to be little known about Steven’s life in St. George, other than his church activities and job search. :waitasec:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/st-george/158816-gay-acceptance-st-george.html

I know that on Disappeared, there was an intimation that this family was pretty close, so you'd think a brother or sister and their spouse/kids would have at least taken a trip down/through there to/and visit.

 

[Fairy1]

I just want to address current rumors that are being floated that the original story I wrote on Steven was edited months later to better reflect the family's timeline.

While I admit the story has been updated since the original post, it was updated to fix a typo, as I addressed on this board over a year ago. Furthermore, if I edited the story to better reflect the timeline, it would not still refer to SK's Ruby Valley trip happening on Dec. 9th.

I am currently of the belief that the RV trip happened on the 10th, making details of my first story, in my mind, erroneous. However, it is not my practice to edit stories months after they have been posted, unless it is to fix typos.

Lastly, I'm all for spirited debate on the case. I will not entertain debate surrounding my integrity. If you don't believe something I post or something I write, that's fine. If you want to allege that I am manipulating the record in an effort to push the case in a certain direction, that's not fine.

It seemed more of an accusation to me, but rumor is certainly a more diplomatic way of putting it!

swjaxon, I would never question your integrity and am grateful for how you have championed Steven's case in terms of media coverage. We are all very fortunate to have you in Steven's corner.

In the early days, some portions of the timeline were more fluid as details were revealed, confirmed and corroborated. Obviously, it took time to fill in the blanks and put that massive timeline together. It didn't happen overnight.

That said, the timeline HAS been manipulated, but not by anyone here or by the family. There is a family with another site out there that has tweaked it to further their own agenda. Doesn't mean any of it is true.

 

[Fairy1]

As a note: I bolded Fairy's ..."and while I do believe...." -sorry, can't figure out how to do "bolded by me"...

Here is my comment. Fairy, you don't think that he was in SCA for any kind of a job interview. Do you have something specific in mind and, if so, can you share it here? I don't recall you putting forth an alternative, although if you have, I'm sorry I don't remember. You have been one dedicated cookie, here, that's for sure! Thanks for all your input.

A couple reasons; when he spoke to GW, he offered to turn around and go back to St. George. I don' think he would have done that if there was a badly needed job at stake.

And, I believe whatever led Steven to SCA began in St. George, with a person.

 

[Fairy1]

I hope this doesn’t offend anyone, I’m just merely throwing out ideas here and I know this one has been brought up before at some point.

I agree, SK’s reasons for moving to St. George were weak, to say the least, there had to be some kind of draw to that area other than just being tired of the winters in Salt Lake City. Out of curiosity, I started doing some Google searches for Utah gay population and the following link came up regarding St. George. The third post was what caught my eye. I am not saying that SK was gay, but IF perhaps he was, St. George seems to be the place he would go if he were trying to live a gay lifestyle and stay somewhat close to his family.

Does anyone know if any family members or close friends of SK’s from Salt Lake ever went down there to visit him before he disappeared? Did he take them around, show them his hangout spots, introduce them to his friends? Usually when family or friends from out of town visit, this is what one would do. There seems to be little known about Steven’s life in St. George, other than his church activities and job search. :waitasec:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/st-george/158816-gay-acceptance-st-george.html

I'm not offended and it has been discussed. I always considered it to be a very viable possibility in terms of the "walkaway" theory I have favored. IIRC, laytonian sent Steven's flier out to a number of associations along those lines, but nothing ever came of it. Honestly, it does make a lot of sense. when you look at the whole picture.

I don't recall if anyone in the family had visited Steven in St. George. I kind of don't think so, but I wouldn't want to swear to that. He was in regular touch with them, though.

 

[Weygand]

Also, someone in a much earlier thread mentioned something which has always stuck with me. Why in the world would a person seeking employment move to a SMALLER market? Of course, if he already had something lined up it would make sense, but I just can't wrap my mind around a person moving to a smaller job market to find a job. You generally move to BIGGER markets to find jobs.

Unless he was close enough to LV that commuting from St George gave him access to the job market in LV, but then again, Nevada has worse unemployment than here in California. And it would probably kill him on gas unless whatever he was peddling was far more lucrative than it sounds.

I'm just playing Devil's advocate, but I remember the thread you're referring to and I had just gotten off unemployment and had mentioned exactly that....if he was looking for a job, didn't have a 401k to pad the bad times, moving away from your support base is a head scratcha.

....And, the contradiction in some (much) earlier note here from his cousin that one reason he quit the Salt Lake job was because he had a bunch of good friends with whom he could never spend any time, due to his working nights, yet he MADE SURE he wouldn't be able to spend much time with them by moving away! I know, I know. Apparently another reason he gave for moving to St. George was the weather, but that is weak, in my opinion. That seems like a "cover story" -not necessarily in the sense that he's covering up something bad, but maybe feels silly about telling everyone the real reason. A guy quits gainful employment to move, sans job prospect, to an area where he doesn't know anyone, to move into a rental unit with a roommate he doesn't know (and who, apparently, lives a lifestyle QUITE different than that which he professes to like so much -he complained about the "worldliness" of his coworkers in Salt Lake -gee, guess I'll move in to a house with a guy who's totally worldly!--- anyway, none of this adds up for me.

I believe, like some earlier poster said about a thousand posts ago, that his disappearance has something to do with this move. Everything about it is odd, IMO.

With you 100%. I do wonder how long after the surveillance camera records him that whatever the fates had in store happened? Did he jump into a waiting car with someone going to a window sales marketing event that ran off a road? Is he in the French Foreign Legion? I don't see a suicide for a couple reasons and I am hard pressed to come up with a scenario where someone lures an able bodied male to a retirement community home and does something nefarious and gets away with it (not saying it can't happen, I am just hard pressed to believe it).

 

[fridaybaker]

Weygand, I'm voting for the French Foreign Legion!!

 

[fridaybaker]

Has anyone been to the family's website lately? I can't remember the exact web address and can't find it by googling. Or Binging......

 

[Fairy1]

Has anyone been to the family's website lately? I can't remember the exact web address and can't find it by googling. Or Binging......

I have not. I don't know if it's publicly accessible.

 

[Fairy1]

Wishing laytonian would come back. WE NEED HER!!!