NV NV - Wellington, WhtMale 574UMNV, 35-50, off Sand Canyon Road, Mar'92 - #1

[Miss Muffet]

How long would you guess it would take to rule out or confirm if the man who looks VERY much like the photo LE submitted to us is the UID?

T. Blake - IMO he is the match

Since his NamUs says DNA and dental are not currently available, an identification can't be made until DNA or dental is tracked down by LE. That might take a loooonnnnggg time--if it's even possible to find. And he might not get prioritized on looks alone.

 

[RickshawFan]

I've finally read all the posts in this thread. It took hours!

Since I'm new to this, I need someone to give me a task to do. I know nooks and crannies all over Oregon, especially for the period we're looking at. Has someone searched the local missing persons databases for that state for the period in question? Then post anyone I find who's not already on our "Current Relevant Missing list"? I can get going on that if it needs doing.

Or else, give me another task!

 

[Steleheart]

I agree with your speculation about the boots. Western boots are expensive due to being well-made and durable; if the killer or accomplice was wearing crappy too-small shoes that had been oddly repaired, he or an accomplice well could've been tempted to take the boots off the UID's feet (which were probably at least a size 12, so would have fit better than a too-small pair of sneakers). Of course, I like boots too, being a SW gal, so I'm also biased.

One minor aside - pretty sure it was the waistband (with the size written on it) that had survived the elements, and the rest of the underwear had disintegrated.

Yes, only the band remained. That's what I was trying to say. Eh, I had Frye harness Boots in the 70's - even in Boston they were cool.

 

[RickshawFan]

How about this one:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...lliam-Dale-Gunn-15-Klamath-Falls-16-June-1984

The stats are deceiving because he went missing at 15 and he was only 5'8" then. Plus, the refs say the hair is brown, but in missing photos, it has a strong reddish cast to it.

http://charleyproject.org/cases/g/gunn_william_dale.html

http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMC/601618/1

No problem getting from Klamath Falls OR to Reno. He had an abusive step father? Runaway? Foul play?

 

[Miss Muffet]

But why would the other pair of underwear not deteriorate to just a waistband too? I'm assuming they were both exposed to the same elements. Unless one pair was buried and the other pair was exposed to the elements. If they both were exposed to the elements, my guess one pair of underwear was eaten sans its waistband.

 

[Steleheart]

But why would the other pair of underwear not deteriorate to just a waistband too? I'm assuming they were both exposed to the same elements. Unless one pair was buried and the other pair was exposed to the elements. If they both were exposed to the elements, my guess one pair of underwear was eaten sans its waistband.

I thought the other pair, the Hanes, were inside the blanket with the pants?

ETA: Fabrics exposed also get ravaged by meeces and birds for nesting.

ETA 2: I was wrong, the information we have does not say the Hanes were with the pants inside the blanket.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...nd-Canyon-Road-Mar-92&p=11657870#post11657870


MOO

 

[Miss Muffet]

How about this one:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...lliam-Dale-Gunn-15-Klamath-Falls-16-June-1984

The stats are deceiving because he went missing at 15 and he was only 5'8" then. Plus, the refs say the hair is brown, but in missing photos, it has a strong reddish cast to it.

http://charleyproject.org/cases/g/gunn_william_dale.html

http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMC/601618/1

No problem getting from Klamath Falls OR to Reno. He had an abusive step father? Runaway? Foul play?

He would have only been 23 in 1992. Our guy was 35 to 50. The detectives will go outside the age range by a few years, but a 12 year difference is significant.

btw, welcome to the thread! Glad to have you on board here!

 

[Miss Muffet]

Another Nevada county has done 227 exclusions on this Jane Doe and still hasn't found her identity.

http://www.kolotv.com/home/headline...rder-Victim-Still-Unidentified-294304131.html

Let's keep looking our guy in every place imaginable and not assume he is already our list.

 

[wintermute]

How about this one:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...lliam-Dale-Gunn-15-Klamath-Falls-16-June-1984

The stats are deceiving because he went missing at 15 and he was only 5'8" then. Plus, the refs say the hair is brown, but in missing photos, it has a strong reddish cast to it.

http://charleyproject.org/cases/g/gunn_william_dale.html

http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMC/601618/1

No problem getting from Klamath Falls OR to Reno. He had an abusive step father? Runaway? Foul play?

Billy's sister has posted on this forum under his missing person thread, and it sounds like the family strongly suspects that the step-father killed Billy the day he went missing.

 

[Foxfire]

Quote Originally Posted by Miss Muffet View Post
You know how meth and crack cause people to lose their teeth? I don't know how many years it takes for that to happen. I remember in the mid-80s hearing about crack on the news. My first husband and I looked at each other and said, "What's that?" Because we thought we knew it all. LOL

The 70s was mostly weed and psychedelics. Coke made its big appearance in the early early 80s. Then crack arrived in the mid-80s. I just looked it up. 1984. It first started in Los Angeles. Coke addicts who couldn't afford coke switched to crack.

I wonder which teeth our guy is missing. Hmmm.....

Well, there's crack and there's crank. Crank is methamphetamine. I went to an open house when I was looking to buy, and the house had been a rental with a meth lab. It was early 80's, West Coast. I had never heard of meth before then.

Meth addicts have terrible teeth, but I don't know if teeth like that would be described as "healed": I think maybe they'd be described as corroded or broken.

RickshawFan, after reading yours and Miss Muffet's posts concerning meth and mentioning 1984, the CA speed freak killers came to mind.
Wesley Shermantine and Loren Herzog, were dubbed the "Speed Freak Killers" after a 15-year methamphetamine drug-induced killing spree that began in 1984 and ended in 1999.

Ironically Wellington, NV would have been within their geographical area of operation and during the years that the killers were active, and they had no victim profile or preference. The CA SF killers were hunters and would kill just for the hell of it..
There is a WS thread on the CA SF killers http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...rmantine-talks-Herzog-commits-suicide)/page10.

Speed Killers (Herzog and Shermantine) Possible Victims List
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B5zAeTjqVlKGHUCm4ahYkM0FJIljdsuN0u9RFQdrb5o/edit?pli=1#gid=0

Google Geographical map of CA SF Killers known victims/possible victims locations
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Sto...30d7f3cd6!2m2!1d-120.6804872!2d38.1960298!3e0

Wesley Shermantine and Loren Herzog
The Speed Freak Killers
http://crime.about.com/od/serial/a/speedfreakkillers.htm

Many of the CA SF Killer's victim and other area missing persons files are sealed by the San Joaquin County Sheriffs Department <another irony - see news update on Sunshine Lawsuit below>

'Speed Freak' killers case back in federal court on Friday, April 17, 2015 - News10/KXTV
http://www.news10.net/videos/news/local/stockton/2015/04/17/25968141/

 

[Soulmagent]

I am posting this link because I cant find a missing report on him or stats the only thing I know he is wanted and would be 82 ,making him 51 or 52 at the time the victims was found.

The link mentions his name relating to the case he is a suspect in but his name does not come up as a missing person.


Henry lee Harbison

This link has photos of him on the bottom and in one photo you can see a red tint ,but those 70's photo's add red to objects over time it seems.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1023dfmo.html

 

[GGE]

My thoughts on the underwear differences - the pair suspected to be on the victim when he died was nothing but waistband. The pair that was presumably extra and not on a decomposing body were not themselves decomposed as bad.

My suspicion is that items located on a decomposing body will get exposed to fluids and other decomposing biological matter which would deteriorate more quickly due to all of the bacteria, insects, molds, etc that happily "eat" decomposing biological matter, whereas a pair of underwear in the woods wouldn't be saturated/tainted/affected by biological material and therefor wouldn't attract the same "decomposers" and therefor would deteriorate at a different rate.

 

[RickshawFan]

Billy's sister has posted on this forum under his missing person thread, and it sounds like the family strongly suspects that the step-father killed Billy the day he went missing.

That's true, but I decided to throw the name in the rink in case they're wrong. He could've run away and stayed away, not because his stepfather killed him, but because the stepfather was gonna kill him sooner or later.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I am posting this link because I cant find a missing report on him or stats the only thing I know he is wanted and would be 82 ,making him 51 or 52 at the time the victims was found.

The link mentions his name relating to the case he is a suspect in but his name does not come up as a missing person.


Henry lee Harbison

This link has photos of him on the bottom and in one photo you can see a red tint ,but those 70's photo's add red to objects over time it seems.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1023dfmo.html

That's a great find!!!

He's a POI in a missing person's case who disappeared but isn't listed as missing anywhere.

We need to find more people who are missing who aren't in the databases.

 

[DanceCard]

I am posting this link because I cant find a missing report on him or stats the only thing I know he is wanted and would be 82 ,making him 51 or 52 at the time the victims was found.

The link mentions his name relating to the case he is a suspect in but his name does not come up as a missing person.


Henry lee Harbison

This link has photos of him on the bottom and in one photo you can see a red tint ,but those 70's photo's add red to objects over time it seems.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1023dfmo.html

Harbison is mentioned in the book A Beautiful Child, about the life of 'Sharon Marshall' who was really Suzanne Sevakis. I think at one point she was thought to be a victim of his. I read the ebook just recently. I didn't pay much attention to the part about Harbison because at the time I read the book, I already knew he was discounted....I'll read the sgement about Harbison again and see if there are any clues or links that jump out. Will repost if so.

 

[wenwe4]

How about this one:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...lliam-Dale-Gunn-15-Klamath-Falls-16-June-1984

The stats are deceiving because he went missing at 15 and he was only 5'8" then. Plus, the refs say the hair is brown, but in missing photos, it has a strong reddish cast to it.

http://charleyproject.org/cases/g/gunn_william_dale.html

http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMC/601618/1

No problem getting from Klamath Falls OR to Reno. He had an abusive step father? Runaway? Foul play?

This one (although too short @ 5'8) could have grown if he went missing for a few years - I put him on and have included his Namus profile:

248) Gunn, William D 5’8+ Brown(reddish?) DOB (Age 15/84) (p1724) Namus no dental avail, dna avail submitted

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/6148/2/

 

[Soulmagent]

Harbison is mentioned in the book A Beautiful Child, about the life of 'Sharon Marshall' who was really Suzanne Sevakis. I think at one point she was thought to be a victim of his. I read the ebook just recently. I didn't pay much attention to the part about Harbison because at the time I read the book, I already knew he was discounted....I'll read the sgement about Harbison again and see if there are any clues or links that jump out. Will repost if so.

Websleuths has a ton of info posted on him and his contact with Franklin Floyd and the church of new song. It is interesting to note the travels though important states and the crimes of which he is said to have commited.
I could see him ending up murdered himself ,I could also see a death of natural causes being hidden in a case such as his and made to look like a murder.

One thing I havent read in a while is a physical description ,I am thinking I read he was tall in an article I must have read no less then 10 years ago'.

 

[wenwe4]

Someone upthread postulated that our UID might have been wearing boots at the time of his death and his perpetrator might have taken them. (Not trying to derail the thread so please forgive)

It reminded me that I once met a couple who had been previously involved in the Tony & Susan Alamo ministries in Arkansas & California. This the same group who came to fame in the 1980's & 1990's for the famous boots and jackets (colored, studded & rhinestones) - made Michael Jackson's studded black leather jacket at one time. The Alamo ministries were a huge cult living communally outside of L.A. in Saugus, (Santa Clarita)CA.

Members were forced to work 20 hr days, fed food from donations to the "church" and dumpster diving, gave all of their worldly belongings over to the church when they joined, pray over Susan's decomposing body to resurrect her from the dead, and Tony was eventually convicted of forcing child brides (some as young as 8) to marry him. It is reported that Tony got a little "weird" after his wife's death on 1982 and that is when things started to get really bad in the church/commune.

While beatings of children were reported to have happened frequently, there were many other "disciplines" given to members for crimes such as walking across a lawn ($1 million fine), no food/fasting, no health care unless approved by Susan or Tony, people with mental disorders were taken to the hospital entrance and dropped off (aka the "zoo"). I have been doing some searching but many of the relevant articles no longer exist. Just a thought that maybe our UID ended up being a "victim" of a cult like religious ministry who "minister" to homeless or drug addicted folks circa 1990ish.

 

[Guinevere]

BBM

My son is a natural Red Head, he is only a teenager. He has a myriad of colors running through his hair from Blonde to Various Shade of Red and even some Grey ones here and there. It is also very thick/course as you all describe. He would be mostly Belgian/Polish/Irish on my side and Irish & Italian on his fathers.

So I can see where this may be a natural and not processed color.

~

BBM

OK so now my son thinks I'm Really Weird :dunno: Guess he wonders why I wanted to take pics of his head LOL

Examples of a true Red Headed Irish Mix Teenage HS male (two different lighting's)...... I would not be surprised to find our victim is of Irish decent.



I imagine with age these colors will change (ie Darken).

I've always been light blonde and the last few years my hair as been getting darker and is now coming in a light brown...


ETA : John Does Hair






~

 

[micheleonelonly]

Hello everybody,

(off topic)First, thank you to Miss Muffet for linking to Sheep Flats Jane Doe in Washoe County. She is my #1 "pet case" and I found and joined WS through reading about her.(end off topic)

Now, regarding MP Louis Neguelouart. There is some info in another WS thread here
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...716)-30-69-Shallow-Grave-Powerline-Rd-July-86
Another WS user put in a lot of work trying to track down some DNA. Detectives, perhaps you can reach out to the detectives for that John Doe's case in Clark County or the NAMUS case manager to get up to date on the effort to get LN's dna.

He does have a NAMUS page, the last name is just spelled a little differently. (sidenote, I think LN is of Basque descent. We have a large Basque population here in Nevada and almost all of them have long, hard-to-spell last names)
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/2072
Says dentals are available and DNA is not.