NY - Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein confidante, arrested on Sex Abuse charges, Jul 2020 #5

[sds71]

Beck, who ran on a platform of being “fiscally responsible, socially inclusive” and in favor of a “strong national defense,” wound up losing the Virginia race to Democrat Don Beyer after securing only 2.7% of the vote.

Ex-girlfriend of disgraced NJ Sen. Bob Menendez took part in orgies with Jeffrey Epstein and victim Virginia Giuffre: docs

Gwendolyn Beck, 65, a longtime associate of Epstein’s was singled out by his victim Virginia Giuffre in a January 2016 deposition, a transcript of which was finally released to the public on Tuesda…

nypost.com

 

[JennieM]

Doe 174


moo

What’s another trial when there are already so many.

 

[investikater]

I feel that's like saying something akin to, "It's too bad that girl claiming she was raped by Daddy didn't wait until after so-and-so's spring wedding before she brought a lawsuit against our family. How unkind and inappropriate of her for not being more considerate to our poor family. Now we all must deal with this before so-and-so's special day. How awful for us to be forced to deal with this accusation!"

It's ridiculous thinking IMO and just another way to minimize and negate what Andrew was up to. There was also another girl who accused him of sexual assault by grabbing her breast. And those are the only ones we've heard about publicly. Where there's smoke, there's fire. It was a pattern of behaviour by him imo. No amount of sugar-coating it will make it less so. MOO.

I mean, this is the royal family for goodness sake! The son of the queen travelling the world as Randy Andy, sexually involved with minors through his connections.

It's just disgusting any way you look at it imo.

ETA: With GM in prison for being the Madam of the rich and famous, Andrew is one fortunate person to not be in prison also. It only took him a few million $$$$ to buy his way out. MOO.

Your point is reasonable, but your analogies are not quite apples and apples.

In your analogy the upcoming family wedding isn't a matter of international importance which COULD HYPOTHETICALLY be used to coerce a settlement that otherwise would not be agreed to. At least I don't see how.

I also point out that IN MY OPINION the civil courts are an innapropriate place to seek justice for alleged sex crimes.
Justice for crimes should be sought in the criminal justice system.
I don't not believe PERSONALLY that justice can be found in the civil courts. JUST MY OPINION

 

[Legally Bland]

There were at least 2 other jurisdictions she could have sued him in. The link to New York was extremely weak. The allegations were in the UK and in the VI

Not sure what you mean by "link to New York", but sexual abuse in that state is an "allegation" as far as I'm aware. From the civil complaint:


...

...

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/60119368/1/giuffre-v-prince-andrew/

 

[investikater]

Not sure what you mean by "link to New York", but sexual abuse in that state is an "allegation" as far as I'm aware. From the civil complaint:

View attachment 473769
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https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/60119368/1/giuffre-v-prince-andrew/

Oh ok that's news to me.

Thank you for correcting a misunderstanding I had

Am I correct that there are also allegations in London and on Little St James?

 

[Charlot123]

Had to say this. About VG, I think that by 17, she understood it all well and knew what she was doing. But I have many questions to the adults who allowed her to enter Epstein’s circle when she was 13. Someone was responsible for this. And - she is a complex and not a uni-dimensional person today, but Epstein and Maxwell ruined her life. Carolyn’s life, too. Many others.

Does anyone remember the end of the real book, “Lolita”? There is a description of a grown up, 24 year-old-Lolita. Living in poverty, loving another man. She has developed poor skin and a general physical filth that is not at all nymphet-like. Her body is more muscular, her make-up looks tawdry.
This is when one realized how thoroughly HH has ruined her life, her athletic talent, her future.

None of the witnesses looks happy or even content.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Your point is reasonable, but your analogies are not quite apples and apples.

In your analogy the upcoming family wedding isn't a matter of international importance which COULD HYPOTHETICALLY be used to coerce a settlement that otherwise would not be agreed to. At least I don't see how.

I also point out that IN MY OPINION the civil courts are an innapropriate place to seek justice for alleged sex crimes.
Justice for crimes should be sought in the criminal justice system.
I don't not believe PERSONALLY that justice can be found in the civil courts. JUST MY OPINION

Having sex with underage girls who are being trafficked to other countries by other rich and powerful players is a matter of International importance.

Your argument that no crime happened simply because it was a matter settled in civil court does not make sense to me.

This was a huge legal matter settled in civll court by Andrew and his many highly paid legal representatives but you're stating it should not have been handled that way. According to your way of thinking, all of Andrew's and the royal family lawyers representing him, mismanaged this entire situation, while brilliant VG masterminds a multi-million dollar settlement right under their noses, and in civil court no less. Really? That way of thinking is called denial.

ETA: There is no need to use capital letters because it's makes it seem like you're shouting.

 

[Laineybin]

Had to say this. About VG, I think that by 17, she understood it all well and knew what she was doing. But I have many questions to the adults who allowed her to enter Epstein’s circle when she was 13. Someone was responsible for this. And - she is a complex and not a uni-dimensional person today, but Epstein and Maxwell ruined her life. Carolyn’s life, too. Many others.

Does anyone remember the end of the real book, “Lolita”? There is a description of a grown up, 24 year-old-Lolita. Living in poverty, loving another man. She has developed poor skin and a general physical filth that is not at all nymphet-like. Her body is more muscular, her make-up looks tawdry.
This is when one realized how thoroughly HH has ruined her life, her athletic talent, her future.

None of the witnesses looks happy or even content.

Sexually abused children are groomed and learn to 'accept' things that children not abused don't or won't. I don't think it's fair to apply any 'normal' standards to VG, or any child at 17 - and yes - they are still children at 17. The complex psychological damage of sexual abuse victims stays with them their whole lives, some happily, get the help they need but the damage doesn't disappear. I find it very difficult to have others judge this child who was groomed by experts in this disgusting way.

 

[UK Girl]

Hmmm...

And when exactly is the right timing to seek Justice?

VG is not the culprit in this disgusting case.

She with other (then) girls are victims.

Whatever time is always right for perps to pay for their crimes.

Too bad if the timing is not convenient for criminals.

JMO

but why does she only want Justice with Andrew? thats the part I do not understand.

 

[Dotta]

but why does she only want Justice with Andrew? thats the part I do not understand.

Huh?

VG has pursued criminal and civil actions against Epstein and Maxwell, and has appealed directly to the public for justice and awareness.

She sued Maxwell for defamation in 2015, and the case was settled in her favour.

VG created 'Victims Refuse Silence',
a non-profit based in the United States, in 2015,
which was relaunched under the name Speak Out, Act, Reclaim (SOAR) in November 2021.

Virginia Giuffre - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Dotta]

"Mysterious 2018 burglary of Jeffrey Epstein's $18M 'Zorro Ranch': ​

Police files reveal 40 guns - including pistols, rifles and antique firearms - were stolen from pedo's New Mexico estate a year before his suicide."​

Cops are baffled over raid on Jeffrey Epstein's $18M New Mexico ranch

New Mexico police continue to grapple with the unsolved burglary at Jeffrey Epstein's Zorro Ranch in August 2018 in which 40 guns were stolen. The 8,000-acre property was linked to sexual abuse

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Charlot123]

Sexually abused children are groomed and learn to 'accept' things that children not abused don't or won't. I don't think it's fair to apply any 'normal' standards to VG, or any child at 17 - and yes - they are still children at 17. The complex psychological damage of sexual abuse victims stays with them their whole lives, some happily, get the help they need but the damage doesn't disappear. I find it very difficult to have others judge this child who was groomed by experts in this disgusting way.

@Laneybin, not judge her. I said at the very beginning - she did have a family. Her friend Caroline refused to go to the Virgin Islands, saying her mother won't allow her to. What about VG's parents?

Virginia Giuffre's dad 'regrets' taking her to Epstein's mansion

Sky Roberts, who also called for Prince Andrew to be jailed, said he had 'no idea' paedophile billionaire Epstein was a threat to Virginia.

metro.co.uk

The Wikipedia has some information about her parents. More questions, how? It was before the internet.

Virginia Giuffre - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Dotta]

@Laneybin, not judge her. I said at the very beginning - she did have a family. Her friend Caroline refused to go to the Virgin Islands, saying her mother won't allow her to. What about VG's parents?

Virginia Giuffre's dad 'regrets' taking her to Epstein's mansion

Sky Roberts, who also called for Prince Andrew to be jailed, said he had 'no idea' paedophile billionaire Epstein was a threat to Virginia.

metro.co.uk

The Wikipedia has some information about her parents. More questions, how? It was before the internet.

Virginia Giuffre - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

That is the problem of neglected children
In some cases, children/teens are left without proper supervision for extended periods of time.

Is it the child's fault?

Ever heard of Huddersfield grooming gang?

Twenty-seven men were accused of sexual offences including rape and trafficking against girls aged between 11 and 17, with two further women accused of child neglect.

Not all kids are lucky to have loving supportive families.

Huddersfield grooming gang - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Cool Cats]

Broke Ghislaine Maxwell Is Now Representing Herself in Court: Report​

Thu, January 11, 2024​

Ghislaine Maxwell using prison TYPEWRITER to file court docs

Ghislaine Maxwell is so broke she is now representing herself in court - and filing legal briefs on a typewriter from prison.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Broke Ghislaine Maxwell Is Now Representing Herself in Court: Report

Mathieu Polak/Sygma/Sygma via Getty ImagesGhislaine Maxwell is hard up for funds—so much so that she’s been forced to represent herself as she tries to recoup legal fees from Jeffrey Epstein’s estate, according to court documents first reported by The Daily Mail. The disgraced socialite has...

news.yahoo.com

 

[investikater]

Broke Ghislaine Maxwell Is Now Representing Herself in Court: Report​

Thu, January 11, 2024​

Ghislaine Maxwell using prison TYPEWRITER to file court docs

Ghislaine Maxwell is so broke she is now representing herself in court - and filing legal briefs on a typewriter from prison.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Broke Ghislaine Maxwell Is Now Representing Herself in Court: Report

Mathieu Polak/Sygma/Sygma via Getty ImagesGhislaine Maxwell is hard up for funds—so much so that she’s been forced to represent herself as she tries to recoup legal fees from Jeffrey Epstein’s estate, according to court documents first reported by The Daily Mail. The disgraced socialite has...

news.yahoo.com

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That's never good, even when the person has done bad things. Because it's civil I assume she isn't entitled to legal aid?

 

[Cool Cats]

That's never good, even when the person has done bad things. Because it's civil I assume she isn't entitled to legal aid?

No. Not entitled to a court appointed attorney.

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/how-can-you-request-a-court-appointed-attorney-for-1155356.html

Are civil cases entitled to a court appointed attorney

The court won't appoint an attorney in a civil case. If you meet specific income requirements you might find assistance at Legal Aid or a law school with a clinic.

Legal aid organizations exist which may take on representation in civil matters sometimes for defendants who have no money. Typically there are many more people who want such representation than the legal aid organization can afford to represent. I know of no right to representation by counsel in civil matters. Sometimes a lawyer will take on a civil matter for a defendant who has no money on a pro bono basis, but one cannot count on finding such counsel.

 

[investikater]

Having sex with underage girls who are being trafficked to other countries by other rich and powerful players is a matter of International importance.

fair point. However VRGs lawsuit against PA does not seem to me to have been about stopping that, nor had any effect on it?

Your argument that no crime happened simply because it was a matter settled in civil court does not make sense to me.

well that fact remains that PA hasn't been charged with a crime and hasn't been convicted of a crime. And he agreed to a settlement while admitting no wrongdoing.
The fact is VRGs allegations are still just allegations.
They haven't been proven, and they haven't been admitted to.
It's also a fact that the allegations vary widely in legality depending on the jurisdiction

This was a huge legal matter settled in civll court by Andrew and his many highly paid legal representatives but you're stating it should not have been handled that way. According to your way of thinking, all of Andrew's and the royal family lawyers representing him, mismanaged this entire situation, while brilliant VG masterminds a multi-million dollar settlement right under their noses, and in civil court no less.

Maybe it's just a nomenclature semantics thing but wasn't it settled outside civil court? Versus if it had been settled in civil court wouldn't that mean a judge and or jury had reached a decision and awarded damages? I'm not sure.

VRG is not masterminding anything by herself. She also has a team of expensive lawyers. They also set up and run both her charities - just look up their filings to see.

 

[investikater]

Huh?

VG has pursued criminal and civil actions against Epstein and Maxwell, and has appealed directly to the public for justice and awareness.

She sued Maxwell for defamation in 2015, and the case was settled in her favour.

VG created 'Victims Refuse Silence',
a non-profit based in the United States, in 2015,
which was relaunched under the name Speak Out, Act, Reclaim (SOAR) in November 2021.

Virginia Giuffre - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I can see while some agree many here feel I am too harsh in my opinions of and criticism of VRG.

My opinion is supported by the opinion and allegations by the late CA

Sources:

Witness at Maxwell's trial waives anonymity and makes new claim

Carolyn and Virginia - then Roberts, now Giuffre - were members of the depraved couple's harem of vulnerable teens and young women, recruited by Maxwell to provide sexual favours for Epstein.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Prince Andrew's an oaf - but his accuser has questions to answer too

SARAH VINE: Normally when a jury returns a verdict, that's the end of it. But not in the Maxwell case. If anything, when it comes to this tale of power and perversion, the plot appears to be thickening.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I have an open mind that is willing to change.
I acknowledge that it is possible that CA, in her pain, misdirected her blame?

As very serious allegations have been made against VRG, some of which have been admitted to, it should be acceptable to look into her claims of philanthropy

I have researched VRGs charities as much as I know how.
They are IN MY OPINION opaque

Could anyone please show us evidence of VRGs charities accomplishments?

 

[Cool Cats]

I can see while some agree many here feel I am too harsh in my opinions of and criticism of VRG.

My opinion is supported by the opinion and allegations by the late CA

Sources:

Witness at Maxwell's trial waives anonymity and makes new claim

Carolyn and Virginia - then Roberts, now Giuffre - were members of the depraved couple's harem of vulnerable teens and young women, recruited by Maxwell to provide sexual favours for Epstein.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Prince Andrew's an oaf - but his accuser has questions to answer too

SARAH VINE: Normally when a jury returns a verdict, that's the end of it. But not in the Maxwell case. If anything, when it comes to this tale of power and perversion, the plot appears to be thickening.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I have an open mind that is willing to change.
I acknowledge that it is possible that CA, in her pain, misdirected her blame?

As very serious allegations have been made against VRG, some of which have been admitted to, it should be acceptable to look into her claims of philanthropy

I have researched VRGs charities as much as I know how.
They are IN MY OPINION opaque

Could anyone please show us evidence of VRGs charities accomplishments?

Her non profit charity got a donation as part of her settlement but she kept the rest. She isn't giving her money to charity as far as I know.

 

[Dotta]

Her non profit charity got a donation as part of her settlement but she kept the rest. She isn't giving anything to charity as far as I know.

She is giving her name and time.

Donation was also part of her settlement as written above.

Many billionaires can donate some money - especially those in the notorious list

Anybody can donate as much as one can afford.

JMO

ETA
I was responding to above post before it was edited - as is seen in the quote.
But my response would be the same