Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

[Herat]

Bringing over my post from the last thread on the stun gun
Mentioned in the affidavit as "stun guns purchased from Big R in Guymon."
They don't have a huge variety, 3 to be precise, but here is one. It's different that I thought it would look like. Only 40$

Sabre Maximum Strength Tactical Stun Gun With LED Flashlight

Big R is the top merchant for your home, farm, and ranch. We supply pet, clothing, footwear, sporting goods, hardware, automotive and more. Almost Anything, Big R's Got It!

bigronline.com

Product Overview:

• EXTREME STOPPING POWER! DELIVERS MORE PAIN THAN ANY OTHER STUN GUN ON MARKET: This stun gun has an industry leading 2.517 µC charge (intolerable pain) based on independent tests by Rassettica Testing Limited [see certificate on left]
• DEFENDS UP CLOSE AND AT A DISTANCE: Intimidating 95 dB sound & bright 130 Lumen LED flashlight with high, low and strobe settings may help disorient from a distance, possibly allowing you to escape to safety before needing to use the stun feature
• BUILT TOUGH AND READY WHEN YOU NEED IT: Durable aircraft grade aluminum construction; includes belt holster for instant access; safety switch prevents accidental discharge; includes rechargeable battery (cord included)
• KNOW HOW TO USE BEFORE YOU GO: Maximize Your Safety. You can learn how to use your SABRE stun gun before you go out and about with access to a free online training video

WOW. " Delivers more pain than any other stun gun on the market".

That's just awful.

 

[otto]

In one of the court documents from the custody case, it says that they used to have LE there at the child exchange time for safety reasons, and that this was by VB's request. HOWEVER, it also says that they stopped doing that, despite VB continuing to request this, because the cops decided it was UNNECESSARY! So they thought she was just saying they needed to be there, probably to make TA and/or Wrangler look bad, when really she was at no risk from them, so no need for LE to come anymore. And this is documented, on record, of them saying this, so I hope this comes up later.

Hopefully Veronica and Jilian's families have a really good lawyer who brings all of this forward. Veronica knew she was in danger, she requested police attendance during the hand-over of the children, and police didn't take her seriously. They decided there was no danger, and they were wrong.

The courts decided that two young children should be taken to an abandoned, vandalized building in the middle of no where to meet their mom. That's not respectful of the children's best interests. Even if they didn't care about Veronica, they should have cared about the children.

 

[otto]

I recall a statement that the skip loader was at the Beasley property on March 29 and March 30 and gone by the morning of March 31.

I don't think they had the skip loader with them at the time VB and JK were kidnapped and forced from the road.

True, but they had a way to transport it between properties - possibly using the flat bed truck.

 

[Herat]

My impression is that the creepy abandoned Four Corners Market building is much closer to TA property than VB's home.

And far far too remote to be safe for VB. I wonder if she had ever been near there before.

Agree, it should have been in a safe public place. In front of a police station or a hospital or county administrative officers.

 

[Eli9]

WOW. " Delivers more pain than any other stun gun on the market".

That's just awful.

To be fair there are two other stun gun options at the Big R. Maybe TA purchased the one with the American flag, but I doubt TA purchased the purple one, lol.

Sabre Short Stun Gun w/LED Flashlight

Big R is the top merchant for your home, farm, and ranch. We supply pet, clothing, footwear, sporting goods, hardware, automotive and more. Almost Anything, Big R's Got It!

bigronline.com

Sabre Pepper Spray & Stun Gun Defense Kit - Purple

Big R is the top merchant for your home, farm, and ranch. We supply pet, clothing, footwear, sporting goods, hardware, automotive and more. Almost Anything, Big R's Got It!

bigronline.com

 

[JoeFromLB]

Please forgive me if this has already been posted.

 

[sunspun]

Another thing I've wondered is if TA had a say in the court ordering her son (Wrangler) to go into rehab. If she really did have a lot of pull with authorities in her county, maybe they'd listen to her if she "suggested" that when he gets released from jail, it might be best for him to go to in-patient rehab for awhile. Maybe just to get him out of the way and give a solid alibi for his whereabouts during the murders. Whether he knew the plan or not... not sure.

 

[mrsmmm]

I'm speculating on motive here - but from what I've been able to piece together from court documents, locals chit chat, media reporting, the affidavit, etc ... I suspect that TA wanted those two children.

I suspect there were issues that went back prior to Wrangler (father) and Veronica divorcing. Veronica was initially given custody of the kids and then things changed when custody switching to Wrangler after TA got involved. By all accounts, TA has threatened to shoot her son, to murder the judge in charge of the custody case, and apparently has attempted to murder Veronica previously.

TA seems to have a lot of sway in the community. She was the President of the School Board for at least 2 years (see her letter page 42). She was/is on the Board of the Trustees for the Cimarron Memorial Hospital (see meeting minutes). She owns substantial property in the area (Adams Family Farming and Claude Adams Trust are both her). She seems to have sway with local police and officials (i.e. in the AA the officer responding said the children were better off with TA than when Wrangler when he was trying to get his children whom he had custody of). I get the impression that she is KNOWN in the area. And she has a tendency to get her way.

She wanted these two kids - I'm still not entirely sure WHY she wanted them so badly - but she wanted them. And when things didn't look like they were going her way she threatened to kill her son. Then she threatened to kill the judge. Then she attempted to kill Veronica. From what I can tell, and what Veronica's attorney has said, Veronica was likely going to get unsupervised visit with her kids at this April 17th hearing (and likely regain custody in the near future). So, TA was going to make sure that didn't happen so she could get what she wanted. She used her power and influence to convince community members to participate. Who is the easiest to sway? Likely those in her weird anti-government religious cult. TA was clearly the "mastermind" behind all of this. And it all makes me wonder if they've done this before...and gotten away with.

 

[Chimera]

I think they needed a vehicle large enough to obstruct both lanes of traffic and the flatbed truck was as good as anything else. They could have used a semi truck if they'd had one, or even a pickup with an attached horse trailer.

I'm still trying to think of the logistics.

Did the perps think no other car would happen to drive by ?
And if one vehicle was used to block off a road, did that truck then follow VB later ?
How did they force VB to a stop ?
One would think they'd have to drive in front of the victims, and another person driving behind them.
There was a broken window in VB's car... what about fender benders from being bashed into ?

Still difficult to believe the four perps pulled it off with 'success' , aka the end goal of killing them.
Glad they made glaring mistakes.
Omo.

 

[Ksfarmer8]

I think they needed a vehicle large enough to obstruct both lanes of traffic and the flatbed truck was as good as anything else. They could have used a semi truck if they'd had one, or even a pickup with an attached horse trailer.

My guess the flatbed truck mentioned was about the size of an F350 and used to transport 2000 lb round bales to feed cattle. They are a flatbed but a very short flat bed. The Twombly's needed two vehicles for the diversion, one up the road for the lookout and the second for the road obstruction on HWY 95.That is why they needed 2 phones IMO.
Skid loaders are rarely moved on a flatbed because of the need for a loading "dock" to get the loader on and off the truck. Skid loaders are almost always transported on a "lowboy" trailer in which the skid steer can be driven on and off the trailer. One of the Twombly vehicles could have been towing a trailer (probably a cattle trailer) to block the roadway. JMO
IMO there was no skid loader at the incident site.

 

[Herat]

I think the autopsy results may become significant in determining if one or all of the perps are prosecuted under Death Penalty conditions.

If there is a finding of a specific fatal injury that can be tied to one person over others in the attacks, this might be the DP evidence. For example: Victim #1 has a lethal gunshot wound and the gun was shot by Perp A, while the other 3 perps did not have a gun, then Perp A gets the primary DP prosecution.

And what is the fascination with blunt object injuries in this strange group? Anvils, hammers. Weird.

 

[Megnut]

ACME militia

 

[Herat]

My guess the flatbed truck mentioned was about the size of an F350 and used to transport 2000 lb round bales to feed cattle. They are a flatbed but a very short flat bed. The Twombly's needed two vehicles for the diversion, one up the road for the lookout and the second for the road obstruction on HWY 95.That is why they needed 2 phones IMO.
Skid loaders are rarely moved on a flatbed because of the need for a loading "dock" to get the loader on and off the truck. Skid loaders are almost always transported on a "lowboy" trailer in which the skid steer can be driven on and off the trailer. One of the Twombly vehicles could have been towing a trailer (probably a cattle trailer) to block the roadway. JMO
IMO there was no skid loader at the incident site.
View attachment 497615

Ooh that's a beauty !

 

[Chimera]

WOW. " Delivers more pain than any other stun gun on the market".

That's just awful.

So angry reading this... will have to refrain from saying what I'm thinking.

We don't know for certain if they died right away or later.
Were they alive long enough to endure being shocked with the stun gun ?

From the evidence they or one of them was severely wounded where the car was found.

4 arrested, bodies found in connection with disappearance of 2 women in Oklahoma

Bert Cullum, Tifany Machel Adams, Cole Earl Twombly and Cora Twombly are charged with murder in the disappearance of Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley.

www.cbsnews.com

"Blood was found on the roadway and the edge of the roadway."

Would the killers murder them right there, taking the chance that someone could drive past ?
Omo.

 

[Chimera]

I think the autopsy results may become significant in determining if one or all of the perps are prosecuted under Death Penalty conditions.

If there is a finding of a specific fatal injury that can be tied to one person over others in the attacks, this might be the DP evidence. For example: Victim #1 has a lethal gunshot wound and the gun was shot by Perp A, while the other 3 perps did not have a gun, then Perp A gets the primary DP prosecution.

And what is the fascination with blunt object injuries in this strange group? Anvils, hammers. Weird.

Bbm.
Yes indeed.
A whole lot of 'weirdness' going on with this group.
It's sad no one actually drove by and interrupted their plans !
But then I don't like to think of yet another innocent person being in danger ; as in -- "Wrong place, wrong time" kind of event.
Omo.

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1780340308800049314

 

[Herat]

So angry reading this... will have to refrain from saying what I'm thinking.

We don't know for certain if they died right away or later.
Were they alive long enough to endure being shocked with the stun gun ?

From the evidence they or one of them was severely wounded where the car was found.

4 arrested, bodies found in connection with disappearance of 2 women in Oklahoma

Bert Cullum, Tifany Machel Adams, Cole Earl Twombly and Cora Twombly are charged with murder in the disappearance of Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley.

www.cbsnews.com

"Blood was found on the roadway and the edge of the roadway."

Would the killers murder them right there, taking the chance that someone could drive past ?
Omo.

I don't think the intent was to kill them by the highway. All I've read so far points to a kidnapping that left no trace of violence or bodily injury at the vehicle, with all other violence happening more distantly, probably in the field at the site of the pre-dug graves. The idea being that they appear to have been carjacked and taken from the area. Probably with fake reports to LE about illegal immgrants seen in the area, which is pretty much prototype for GM Gang

I wonder if we will find out about handcuffs or other restraint devices like those plastic tie straps being brought by the GM Gang precisely for this plan. I hope the GM Gang disposed of stuff in the graves with the bodies.

 

[carbuff]

View attachment 497615

This is roughly what I was picturing, too, though probably black. Just your basic all-around farm truck.

 

[Tabulator]

With so much attention by numerous press agencies now being paid to every aspect of this vile murder, I have a feeling the local PD and the family courts in charge of the original custody case are going to be under the microscope. If ringleader TA had the influence and power she thought she had, well, I believe it will show up in court rulings and judgements.
I think the custody case will be HIGHLY scrutinized in the press and every decision is going to be examined and then re-examined. Then, it will be reported on!
Two women are dead and now that MSM has the story, they will uncover anything that even appears a little hinky.
All the questions we are asking about; like, why the custody exchanges were not done at a police station? Or, why did a policeman think custody of VB's children should be with Grandma TA? And why is he talking about it? I really hope the custody case is looked at extremely carefully - We know that it was this custody case that made Granny and her gang of numbskulls plan and execute 2 innocent women. Hopefully, answers are coming - sooner than later.

This is just my opinion, of course, but, it is also my hope.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

In one of the court documents from the custody case, it says that they used to have LE there at the child exchange time for safety reasons, and that this was by VB's request. HOWEVER, it also says that they stopped doing that, despite VB continuing to request this, because the cops decided it was UNNECESSARY! So they thought she was just saying they needed to be there, probably to make TA and/or Wrangler look bad, when really she was at no risk from them, so no need for LE to come anymore. And this is documented, on record, of them saying this, so I hope this comes up later.

Thank you for this detail! …… I think not only does all the property of TA and crew need to be dug twice over to 8 - 10 feet and with ground penetrating radar - but IMO sure also seems that local authorities and those involved in any of the past dealings with all parties in this matter need to be examined too. It is getting hard not to wonder if sadly someone hasn’t ’dropped the ball’ somewhere perhaps?

And with some of the crew now in custody one hopes for some time - just maybe the walls will start to speak?

IMO something seems amiss as to how local officials responded (or didn’t respond or address) matters of now obvious concern. MOO