Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

[Cedars]

Responding to a post in the last thread, about Paul Grice:

OK - OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #3 *Arrests*

Not an expert but cattle are sometimes moved via use of prods while stun gun for civilian use are smaller and the non LE versions are not as powerful. I didn’t see which one TA purchased. Did she purchase a cattle prod or a civilian version of a stun gun? MOO Good answer. Pic of cattle prod

www.websleuths.com

ETA: clicking the link takes you to a different post than the one that shows in the window.

I was thinking, the April 3 witness statement by CW is good as probable cause for an arrest warrant, but not necessarily enough to convict.

It was 11 days after that, that they made the arrests.

Perhaps that was the first info LE received about Grice, and they decided to target him for a deal.

That's especially how the FBI work: find the weakest link in the conspiracy, hustle them off under cover, confront them with how bad the situation is, get them to agree to cooperate, which often means becoming an informant -eg they agree to set up meetings or phone calls that will collect recorded evidence from the perps, admitting their own guilt.

So, his involvement may be crucial at the trial - but since bail is still an issue, they're keeping him out of view.

JMO

 

[Arkay]

One of the things that confuses me about the visitation hand-off is why wasn't there a neutral place like the police station used for drop-off and pick-up of the children?? Has this been discussed? This relationship between TA and VB sounds very acrimonious. You'd think that this type of exchange would be ordered by the court to ensure that everything went smoothly.

JMO.

I so agree.

When I was one of the supervisors for the children of a married couple who both lost custody due to drug use, a city agency used to send a van to pick up both me and the three children from where they were living. They then drove us to the agency’s headquarters in Manhattan where the children reunited (twice a week) with their parents. I had to walk with them wherever they roamed outdoors for the two hour visit, as the law required they not be alone with the kids.
I know I’ve mentioned some of this previously so I don’t want to be repetitive, but it is OUTRAGEOUS that a handover of children would be done without the authority of a child advocacy agency, or at a police station.

It can be a tense time and also emotional for the children.

Also, I’m too dumb regarding how to bring over something from a closed thread, so I screenshot something from @I am not Sherlock H., with which I agree and consider to be atrocious.

HOW can an officer from LE suggest in any way what is best for the child’s custody???? LE has a supremely important job, but custody is for the courts to decide, not the police.
I agree that this is part of what I gather is more typical in these rural, maybe Wild West parts of the country, where an ordinary woman with some kind of local prominence can have LE under her control.

I mean no offense to those who live there, just basing it on all the news we’ve seen.

Heartbreak all around. God protect those children and the pastor, too. Now having to raise alone four children whose hearts are crushed and who must be in utter shock.

From the post by @I am not Sherlock H.:


JMO

 

[vls12345]

I'm still trying to think of the logistics.

Did the perps think no other car would happen to drive by ?
And if one vehicle was used to block off a road, did that truck then follow VB later ?
How did they force VB to a stop ?
One would think they'd have to drive in front of the victims, and another person driving behind them.
There was a broken window in VB's car... what about fender benders from being bashed into ?

Still difficult to believe the four perps pulled it off with 'success' , aka the end goal of killing them.
Glad they made glaring mistakes.
Omo.

Could there have been someone else posted further out to block the road or place cones across the road after Veronica drove by so that nobody else would come across the scene as things went down during their kidnapping/attack? Just a thought I had.

 

[Herat]

When the car was found and the women were missing, this case was turned over very quickly to OBSI by the local Sheriff's office.

I think they knew this was a very loaded situation with a volatile child custody situation at the heart of it. Probably from all prior dealings with TA.

If the local LE failed to provide reasonable protection for VB because of connections with TA, then this needs to be exposed and prosecuted on it's own.

Right now, there is a massive trial building up that will occupy a great deal of resources in Oklahoma for years to come.
First steps first. Get them bound over for trial and hopefully, denied bail and not released. I believe that at least 2 and probably all of the 4 arrested are very real hazards to the safety of innocent people who were caught up in their schemes: CW and PG.

 

[stormymama]

I keep seeing comparisons to Darlene Snell from
Ozark.
Darlene was much smarter than this crowd. But her mouth…

 

[Ontario Mom]

Does anyone know how many members attended God's Misfits church?

No, but it's 4 members shy now. Thankfully.

 

[Cedars]

FYI, the only way I've found to link on another post is to click on the post #, in the border, upper right hand corner of each post (on my phone). Then just do an ordinary 'copy link' of the websleuth's address from your browser, and paste it into a new post.

JMO

 

[Herat]

No, but it's 4 members shy now. Thankfully.

Oh, I think they are still in the group. Their meetings are just going to be farther apart and not as closed in a more secured location courtesy of the State of Oklahoma.

 

[Chimera]

When the car was found and the women were missing, this case was turned over very quickly to OBSI by the local Sheriff's office.

I think they knew this was a very loaded situation with a volatile child custody situation at the heart of it. Probably from all prior dealings with TA.

If the local LE failed to provide reasonable protection for VB because of connections with TA, then this needs to be exposed and prosecuted on it's own.

Right now, there is a massive trial building up that will occupy a great deal of resources in Oklahoma for years to come.
First steps first. Get them bound over for trial and hopefully, denied bail and not released. I believe that at least 2 and probably all of the 4 arrested are very real hazards to the safety of innocent people who were caught up in their schemes: CW and PG.

Bbm.
ITA.
Esp. the bolded.
Revenge is a thing.
At least the public know what kind of persons they're dealing with !
Omo.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Oh, I think they are still in the group. Their meetings are just going to be farther apart and not as closed in a more secured location courtesy of the State of Oklahoma.

Sure but at least these 4 are in cages, where they belong.

Hopefully that's a wake-up call to anyone still a "member".

 

[Cedars]

Re: the comment that this was so bold, perhaps they had done something similar before.

On the other hand, this 'mission' had so many mistakes, it seems unlikely they've ever done anything like it before.

However, they may have had visions of doing similarly audacious things in future.

And I hope people do look into any unexplained deaths that benefited TA.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1780353492260921708

 

[AislingGray18]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1780348097605865821

A judge was at his house. Seems their anti government leanings only applied to those who were not used as friends in power

Also makes me question that judge, and anyone in authority who blindly supported these people...it makes me think they believe the same exact things.

ETA the comments are gold. Oh wow

 

[Gae]

Responding to a post in the last thread, about Paul Grice:

OK - OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #3 *Arrests*

Not an expert but cattle are sometimes moved via use of prods while stun gun for civilian use are smaller and the non LE versions are not as powerful. I didn’t see which one TA purchased. Did she purchase a cattle prod or a civilian version of a stun gun? MOO Good answer. Pic of cattle prod

www.websleuths.com

ETA: clicking the link takes you to a different post than the one that shows in the window.

I was thinking, the April 3 witness statement by CW is good as probable cause for an arrest warrant, but not necessarily enough to convict.

It was 11 days after that, that they made the arrests.

Perhaps that was the first info LE received about Grice, and they decided to target him for a deal.

That's especially how the FBI work: find the weakest link in the conspiracy, hustle them off under cover, confront them with how bad the situation is, get them to agree to cooperate, which often means becoming an informant -eg they agree to set up meetings or phone calls that will collect recorded evidence from the perps, admitting their own guilt.

So, his involvement may be crucial at the trial - but since bail is still an issue, they're keeping him out of view.

JMO

Thank you so much, Cedars, for staying on this Paul Grice topic. It looks like Paul Grice was not only there at the murder scene, but was also apart of the February attempt to kill Veronica. Is that right?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

*Veronica Butler vs Tifany Adams

https://co-a2.freetls.fastly.net/co-uploads/2024/04/Nov-23-2-1.pdf

Adams served as the chair for the Cimarron County GOP, state Republican leaders said.

Butler's attorney informed the OSBI that Butler was likely to receive unsupervised visitation with her children.

Law enforcement previously responded to a call for service where Adams refused to give Rickman his children.

Affidavit: Details emerge in bitter custody battle between Kansas woman, 'God's Misfits'

A grandmother who allegedly belonged to an anti-government religious group purchased stun guns and burner phones before two Kansas women were killed.

www.oklahoman.com

 

[Knox]

Are you k

https://twitter.com/x/status/1780353492260921708

Are you kidding me?!!

 

[Hestia's Fire]

When the car was found and the women were missing, this case was turned over very quickly to OBSI by the local Sheriff's office.

I think they knew this was a very loaded situation with a volatile child custody situation at the heart of it. Probably from all prior dealings with TA.

If the local LE failed to provide reasonable protection for VB because of connections with TA, then this needs to be exposed and prosecuted on it's own.

Right now, there is a massive trial building up that will occupy a great deal of resources in Oklahoma for years to come.
First steps first. Get them bound over for trial and hopefully, denied bail and not released. I believe that at least 2 and probably all of the 4 arrested are very real hazards to the safety of innocent people who were caught up in their schemes: CW and PG.

I have no doubt that all the ways Veronica and these poor kids were failed will be under a lot of scrutiny in the very near future.

I also predict we're going to see a push for some kind of legislation regulating the locations and circumstances of child custody handovers. Veronica should not have had to do the majority of the driving to see her children, the handovers should not have been taking place in some abandoned parking lot in the middle of nowhere, and her safety concerns and requests for police protection should have been taken seriously from the start. They'll undoubtedly call the legislation Veronica's Law, and maybe it'll prevent another nightmare scenario like this unfolding in the future.

 

[MassGuy]

Are you kidding me?!!

In any other case this would be incredibly weird, in this one though, it's par for the course. Imagine being friends with a guy who threatens people with firearms, and oh yeah, helps commit a double murder.

I have other thoughts about this, but they're best left unsaid until we know more.

 

[Gae]

... I believe that at least 2 and probably all of the 4 arrested are very real hazards to the safety of innocent people who were caught up in their schemes: CW and PG.

I have a hard time seeing PG as just an innocent person caught up in their schemes. He not only was present at the murders, but he was also involved in the February attempt on Veronica's life. He's a grown man and appears to be in it up to the brim of his Stetson hat.

 

[Herat]

I think this case needs a trial in a different court in Oklahoma City

Away from this aggregate of malevolence and graft.