Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

[nhmemorymaker]

The fishiness and mystery are driving the wild speculation. That's natural. When there's an obvious fact vacuum--theories spring up to fill it.

The options as I see them -- in the order of likelihood are as follows:

• PG was involved with the group and started singing, but the feds cut a deal that they're not ready to reveal. He's in witness protection. Somewhere.
• PG was not a plant but was weak, and the group sensed he might start singing, so they offed him. The FBI knows but is not ready to make it public.
• PG was a plant (FBI, IRS, some other agency), and he was instrumental in getting the group to drop the February mission, but the group sensed he was weak and did not let him in on the latest mission. He's in PC.

We could go on all day -- and we probably will -- trying to figure out why this guy was listed as being a participant in the AA. Still, we know virtually nothing else about him, and LE says they're not looking at arresting anyone else.

So, he's dead or in custody of some sort.

All JMOO and pure speculation.

I still say...all they had to do was redact him from the AA. WHY didn't they?

 

[GRT]

Sheriff from OK County speaks:

Good find.

I thought it was interesting how he couldn't/wouldn't answer the questions about how/why the FBI was brought in so quickly and why they had snipers on the roof and a drone in the air when they were transporting the perps to their arraignments.

It feels as though they're taking precautions against more significant threats -- such as they might if they'd arrested a Mafia Don who had dozens of hitmen on the payroll.

All MOO...

 

[CuriousCricket]

Could be. We know for TA this is about control and she made certain with her taped confession on the date of her arrest that nobody was going to be "first to talk"-- especially about her deeds (with any hope to save themselves). Nope, TA was going to speak for herself, and she was going to speak first. JMO

She's sure a piece of work. I don't think it would work, but wonder if this might not be playing toward an insanity plea?? But no, wouldn't that mean she'd lose control of the family trusts? Wonder who is in control there? I'd think TA would want to control the funds even from prison.

 

[Elley Mae]

Good find.

I thought it was interesting how he couldn't/wouldn't answer the questions about how/why the FBI was brought in so quickly and why they had snipers on the roof and a drone in the air when they were transporting the perps to their arraignments.

It feels as though they're taking precautions against more significant threats -- such as they might if they'd arrested a Mafia Don who had dozens of hitmen on the payroll.

All MOO...

Maybe their afraid someone wants to keep TA from talking.

Jmo

 

[Eli9]

I know I've followed other OK cases where we've seen pdf's of the motions posted but they're not doing that in this case. Just the court entries. MOO

CF-2024-00072
ADAMS, TIFANY MACHEL - OSCN Case Details

CF-2024-00071
CULLUM, TAD BERT - OSCN Case Details

No. CF-2024-00070
TWOMBLY, COLE EARL - OSCN Case Details

04/17/2024	TEXT	CM: MINUTE/ORDER IA & BRILL HRG. OIDS APPT'D. BAIL IS ORDERED DENIED. ATTY STATUS HRG SET 5/15/2024 AT 9:00 A.M. Pursuant to 12 O.S. § 39, Document Available at Court Clerk's Office
04/17/2024	TEXT	INITIAL APPEARANCE Pursuant to 12 O.S. § 39, Document Available at Court Clerk's Office
04/17/2024	TEXT	CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS Pursuant to 12 O.S. § 39, Document Available at Court Clerk's Office
04/17/2024	TEXT	ORDER APPOINTING ATTORNEY Pursuant to 12 O.S. § 39, Document Available at Court Clerk's Office

CF-2024-00073
TWOMBLY, CORA GAYLE - OSCN Case Details

04/17/2024	TEXT	CM: MINUTE/ORDER IA & BRILL HRG. OIDS APPT'D AS COUNSEL. BAIL IS ORDERED DENIED. STATUS HRG SET 5/15/2024 AT 9:00 A.M. Pursuant to 12 O.S. § 39, Document Available at Court Clerk's Office
04/17/2024	TEXT	INITIAL APPEARANCE Pursuant to 12 O.S. § 39, Document Available at Court Clerk's Office
04/17/2024	TEXT	CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS Pursuant to 12 O.S. § 39, Document Available at Court Clerk's Office
04/17/2024	TEXT	APPLICATION FOR APPOINTED COUNSEL AND AFFIDAVIT OF Pursuant to 12 O.S. § 39, Document Available at Court Clerk's Office
		FINANCIAL INABILITY TO EMPLOY COUNSEL (O.I.D.S. ATTY)
		(FEE WAIVED)
04/17/2024	TEXT	ORDER APPOINTING ATTORNEY Pursuant to 12 O.S. § 39, Document Available at Court Clerk's Office

(I have omitted the indigent defense fund court fees)

Yes but the documents are available for the media to retrieve at the courthouse. Including the motion to hold without bail. We need to lean on the media to get those and publish them. JMO

 

[fsngruv]

I kinda wonder if Mr. Grice wore a wire and recorded Tifany taking responsibility for the murders? I doubt it, just wonder if that may explain his absence? Not sure if it's been stated already by anyone.

 

[CuriousCricket]

I think they’ll always be able to justify it, and their blame will be on the government that is prosecuting them.

They’ll just regret getting caught.

And perhaps TA's confession. Wonder if they'll look for more "causes" from inside their cells?

 

[PawneeDew]

“To hold my brother back from jumping, there’s just too many emotions—so much anger,” she said. “I don’t understand how somebody can hate somebody so much that you want to kill them. My niece did not deserve that, and neither did the young lady with her.”

‘Sorry Pieces of Sh*t!’: Family of Murdered Kansas Moms Lose It in Court

The enraged relatives reportedly had to be held back as four people arrested in the moms’ deaths showed up for an arraignment.

www.thedailybeast.com

“I watched a bailiff try to reason with him to be quiet, whispering the word ‘please’ just loud enough that I could hear it from a few rows up,” Thatcher said. “I could still hear him whisper ‘she took my daughter’ when Tifany Adams walked through the doors.”

“How can you hate the mother of your grandchildren so much that you want to end her life?” Thompson said.

As for the four suspected of murdering her niece, she added, “They deserve to rot and burn in the depths of hell for all I care.”

4 charged with murder and kidnapping of Kansas women in Oklahoma

The four people accused in the murder and kidnapping of two Kansas women made their initial court appearance on Wednesday..

www.ksn.com

"Jillian was not a normal pastor’s wife, I don’t think. I caught her several times on a motorcycle, which the first time caught me off guard a little bit," Beard said.

Community rallies to pray, raise money for 2 Kansas moms killed in Panhandle

As court proceedings move forward in the Oklahoma Panhandle, there is an effort in Kansas to make sure the names of Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley aren't forgotten.

www.koco.com

What's wrong with being on a motorcycle? It's recreation.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Good find.

I thought it was interesting how he couldn't/wouldn't answer the questions about how/why the FBI was brought in so quickly and why they had snipers on the roof and a drone in the air when they were transporting the perps to their arraignments.

It feels as though they're taking precautions against more significant threats -- such as they might if they'd arrested a Mafia Don who had dozens of hitmen on the payroll.

All MOO...

His explanation was a question back to the reporter: Do you know what's going to happen?

When someone said "no" or shook a head or something, the sheriff said "We don't either" and explained that was why they tried to prepare for anything that might happen.

My take was they're unsure how big the God's Misfits group is and who or what might come riding in in a massive prison break to rescue them.

I think that's why the four were kept completely separated with one arriving, being in the courtroom for arraignment, then led back out and removed.

Any rescue attempt would not find the four in one place at the same time.

So, LE doesn't know the size nor the commitment nor the derangement of the group and think they may be capable of anything given the vast acreages group members own plus the wealth.

 

[PommyMommy]

APR 18, 2024

Court documents reveal suspect admitted ‘responsibility’ for death of missing Kansas women

A suspect in the case of two missing Kansas women admitted responsibility for their deaths, according to court documents newly obtained by Nexstar’s KSN.

fox59.com

[...]

The maximum sentence for murder is death, life or life without parole.

“Now faced with the consequences of a sentence of death or life in prison, the defendants would be willing to do anything since they have shown to be willing to commit capital murder in order to limit Veronica’s visitation,” court documents state.

[...]

Prosecutors say there had been many attempts to take Butler’s life. Other court documents show the years of turmoil between Butler and Adams, but efforts to secure a protection order did not get a judge’s approval.

KSN on Wednesday spoke with Clinton Butler, Veronica Butler’s father. When asked if he felt the justice system failed his daughter, he responded, “One hundred percent.”

 

[nhmemorymaker]

She's sure a piece of work. I don't think it would work, but wonder if this might not be playing toward an insanity plea?? But no, wouldn't that mean she'd lose control of the family trusts? Wonder who is in control there? I'd think TA would want to control the funds even from prison.

Can't wait to see what all happens to the trusts and lands.
My guess is that she had time to work out new details to toe them down.
Losing lands is a huge embarrassment.

 

[PommyMommy]

Judge Forbes says unfair rumors and “crap” about him buying a sawmill with Kansas murdered moms suspect Tad Cullum may have contributed to his firing.

“I asked Tad when they disappeared, I sat him down and said do you have anything to do with this? He said no."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1780954356193329634

 

[Eli9]

Although not necessarily associated with anything nefarious for many ordinary people I would love to know what was in Tad's "go bag". Just pure curiosity.

 

[Sincerely]

I believe common law marriage exists in Oklahoma. My Mom and stepdad always referred to this when I was young. I do not know a lot about it and how it affects property and testifying but am curious. All IMO.

 

[VeraVa]

Judge Forbes says unfair rumors and “crap” about him buying a sawmill with Kansas murdered moms suspect Tad Cullum may have contributed to his firing.

“I asked Tad when they disappeared, I sat him down and said do you have anything to do with this? He said no."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1780954356193329634

Why did he even ask or instantly think of TC when the women disappeared? The judge obviously knew or suspected TC and crew were capable of some questionable stuff. So, he went into business with TC, deep down knowing this guy was capable of criminal acts, BUT it was okay because he came up with 3x the cash for the investment? Geez…and this guy was appointed to judge.

 

[Trino]

Good find.

I thought it was interesting how he couldn't/wouldn't answer the questions about how/why the FBI was brought in so quickly and why they had snipers on the roof and a drone in the air when they were transporting the perps to their arraignments.

It feels as though they're taking precautions against more significant threats -- such as they might if they'd arrested a Mafia Don who had dozens of hitmen on the payroll.

All MOO...

Don't mean to be political, but TA was the GOP Chairman of the area, giving her some power. Area also is pretty "we all stick together." FBI took precautions so this didn't turn out as an A Bundy deal. Seems murder was a bit far to protect for the area's agenda, however. Wish area residents would speak out, but so far not much to say.

 

[NWay]

I still say...all they had to do was redact him from the AA. WHY didn't they?

My guess is to keep him on a very short leash.

Imo based on what they wrote in the AA that any number of charges could be realistically charged.

I also have to admit to not understanding the name being placed quite deliberately in an AA and NOT naming him as POI or, is this LE saying that he is a POI? I’ve not seen this in an AA done this way before and then released to the public. I’ve seen it done but then sealed and released later.

Not sure why this was done the way it was?

MOO

 

[Trino]

Julia Thatcher of Nexstar’s KSNW was in the courtroom and described the scene in court as very emotional. She said the victims’ family members were weeping, hugging each other, even deputies. Butler’s father had to be physically restrained as each suspect walked through the courtroom doors.

https://kfor.com/news/local/4-charged-with-murder-after-bodies-of-missing-kansas-women-found/

Drone overhead for safety? Guesses are residents of the area aren't happy with the arrests, and the FBI knows this.

 

[Knitty]

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Thanks,

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Moderator

 

[Trino]

Judge Forbes says unfair rumors and “crap” about him buying a sawmill with Kansas murdered moms suspect Tad Cullum may have contributed to his firing.

“I asked Tad when they disappeared, I sat him down and said do you have anything to do with this? He said no."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1780954356193329634

You just can't make this stuff up. A sitting judge???