Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

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I suspect that TA will just be happy these kids will forever be out of VB's care.
In this case, I feel that Veronica is most certainly the victim who didn't deserve her fate.
The fact that TA was targeting VB makes me believe that whatever past mistakes VB might have made, she was getting her life back on track & would most likely have been granted full custody , and TA knew this !!!!
Hence the desperation and boldness to commit a final, atrocious act.
If the source for poor decision making comes from TA's side of the family-- I'd take it with the proverbial 'grain'.
Imo.
Omo.
 
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People don't need to be afraid of the woman anymore. She has no more control over the community.
Maybe she ought to be afraid herself for once, not only for the predicament she's in but for any possible retaliation. People are enraged, someone could very well burn her house down, exact some sort of revenge. She might need to be afraid of other inmates, maybe even of a guard or two.
Bolding mine.
Ita.
Also possible revelations ?
And not the biblical kind.
Omo.
 
"went and got a marriage license and returned it"

So then there is no officiant signature to confirm a legal marriage in Oklahoma?

Is there some sort of officiant in God's Misfits that approves of all this or do they just all do whatever they want?

I really don't understand where the religion part of this comes from.
I think we all KNOW who thought they were the "officiant/leader" in that group. JMO
 
Covenant marriage is not recognized in Oklahoma. Only 3 states: Arizona, Arkansas, Louisiana. So, I guess they are not legally married.
Because of the full faith and credit clause of the U.S. Constituion, if they were legally married in one of those states, the marriage must be given full faith and credit in all other states.
 
I'm not even going to guess whether the SA accusations involving VB's brother were accurate. Given TA's proclivity for manipulation, I think there's a good chance those accusations are false. But, who knows?

However, how completely shortsighted could TA be? She took herself out of the children's future by doing what she did. And now, the brother she made the claims against may file for custody.

JMOO, but had the accusations been real, I think TA and her band of merry men would have targeted VB's brother, not VB.

Again, all MOO.
 
I believe common law marriage exists in Oklahoma. My Mom and stepdad always referred to this when I was young. I do not know a lot about it and how it affects property and testifying but am curious. All IMO.
Bbm.
Ita.
Am wondering about that, as I think married people cannot be compelled to testify against each other; but not sure about common law marriages ?
Maybe it varies from state to state.
Omo.
 
@gitana1 and anyone else interested in the docs for this case

NewsNation has links to the “Affidavit of Probable Cause for Arrest Warrant” for each of the four arrested.

Read them and weep.
If anyone comes across these somewhere else id be greatful for a link.
Have looked but can't find anything and newsnation doesn't work in the uk
 
In this case, I feel that Veronica is most certainly the victim who didn't deserve her fate.
The fact that TA was targeting VB makes me believe that whatever past mistakes VB might have made, she was getting her life back on track & would most likely have been granted full custody , and TA knew this !!!!
Hence the desperation and boldness to commit a final, atrocious act.
If the source for poor decision making comes from TA's side of the family-- I'd take it with the proverbial 'grain'.
Imo.
Omo.

Yes, if VB according to her father, had been engaged in battle with TA for five years and was refused a protection order, that suggests TA was front and centre to opposing custody arrangements ever since 2019 and she was just using Wrangler because of his status as the children’s father. Once he was sent to rehab, things changed especially as VB reportedly was indeed getting her life in track.

I admit I feel a certain amount of empathy for the guy. It can’t be easy being raised by such a dominant, egotistical mother. It’s not unusual that he turned to drugs or alcohol as a coping mechanism.

JMO
 
*I found this interesting while looking for Oklahoma CL marriages.

Proxy marriages were contracted frequently in Oklahoma during World War II although the statutes of the state did not specifically provide for such marriage. Howery, Marriage By Proxy and Other Informal Marriages, 13 U. KAN. CITY L. REV. 48 (1944). In that article, the commentator noted that the National Association of Legal Aid Committees named Oklahoma as the only state in the nation where a marriage could be legally performed without either the bride or groom being present. Id. at p. 92. According to Howery, there were no apparent objections of a practical nature which would militate against statutory marriages by proxy in Oklahoma, because "such marriages have taken place with more frequency in this state than in any other jurisdiction, with the possible exception of the state of Kansas". Id.
 
Has anyone seen how many were involved with this group God's Misfits?? I haven't seen anything. I fear this may not be over. JMO
I have not. But, I don't think they were high profile. I think they kind of kept their group on the down-low.

If it wasn't for CW's statements -- I wonder if we would even know about them now.
 

“I could not imagine it. It was a shock to find out she was charged,” Stephen Jones told NewsNation’s Chris Cuomo

“But I’m not surprised,” Jones said. “I’ve represented people in the Panhandle for over 50 years. And every time I go out there, I hear about a new group that doesn’t believe in your dollar bill or other things.”

He continued, “Since 1960, they have changed politically. It’s very Evangelical, very conspiratorial in the sense. Not trusting the government.”

“It’s gothic,” Jones said. “It’s something out of the Bates Motel and it’s a terrible thing. Whoever’s responsible for it, it’s shocking there’s no question about that.”
 

The judge and Cullum may have grown up together, went to school together, been neighbors even before Cullum took up with TA. Who knows, but the judge appears to be genuinely shocked in his interview posted above with NewsNation.
Maybe it's just me, having come from a very small town, but I don't see a single thing wrong with what this judge said. I only wish it wouldn't have been a televised interview, because now, folks are saying even more outrageous things about the guy.

jmo
 
“Now faced with the consequences of a sentence of death or life in prison, the defendants would be willing to do anything since they have shown to be willing to commit capital murder in order to limit Veronica’s visitation,” court documents state.

March 30​

9 a.m. According to court documents, Butler and Kelley leave Hugoton, Kansas Saturday morning to pick up Butler's children for her weekly supervised visit.

9:40 a.m. Butler and Kelley arrived at Highway 95 and Road L, about five miles north of the expected meeting place at Highway 95 and U.S. 64.

9:42 a.m. Butler and Kelley's cell phones stop transmitting signals.

Three pre-paid cellular phones purchased by Adams were at the location of Butler's car at the time of Butler and Kelley's disappearance.

10:05 - 10:16 a.m. Two of the pre-paid cellular phones were at Cullum's residence.

10:16 - 10:35 a.m. Two of the pre-paid cellular phones were at a property rented by Cullum for cattle grazing about 8.5 miles away from where Butler's car was found.

Investigators later found fresh dirt work done by a skid steer owned by Cullum on the property where the two phones had transmitted signals.

All three of the pre-paid cellular phones stopped transmitting March 30.

12:09 p.m. Butler's family members contacted police after finding her car abandoned on the side of Highway 95. When Butler didn't arrive at the birthday party, her family became worried and went to look for her.

The Texas County Sheriff's Office "found evidence of a severe injury" after examining the vehicle and the area surrounding it. They found blood on the roadway, Butler's glasses in the road near a broken hammer, and a pistol magazine was found inside Kelley's purse but no pistol was found.

7:25 p.m. An Endangered Missing Persons Alert went out via the Texas County Sheriff's Department Facebook page.
 
Something I don’t understand is why was TA able to essentially gain custody by default from WR at the time he was court ordered to a rehab facility. That occurred in Feb, yet another custody hearing wasn’t scheduled until late April.

Jones said the custody battle between the two has been contentious since its 2019 beginning. He explained that while the court has entered many temporary orders, there haven’t been any final orders entered.

“It’s gone on too long and too acrimoniously,” Jones said.

Jones described Adams as a well-known member of the community who has been in the farming and ranching business for several years and served on the county’s hospital board.

“She has strong feelings. The children’s mother and father were never married. So, we have this custody battle,” Jones said.

Wrangler Rickman, the father of the two children, had legal custody but was in a rehabilitation facility, so the children were living with Adams at the time of the disappearance.

The issue that kicked off the sequence of events leading up to Butler and Kelley’s deaths was the issue of temporary visitation, Jones said.
 
I'm confused about this discussion of the Twomblys marriage and whether it was common law... The Twomblys appear to have had a "solemnized" marriage pursuant to Oklahoma statute (aka went and got a marriage license and returned it). https://www.oscn.net/dockets/GetCaseInformation.aspx?db=cimarron&number=ML-2015-00003&cmid=8157022

My guess is that any reference to "covenant" was a religious, not a legal, description.
The post of CT's linked here was him describing the difference between a covenantal marriage and a contractual one. I never saw any mention in his post that said him and Cora didn't have a legal marriage, but that was the claim.
 
Maybe it's just me, having come from a very small town, but I don't see a single thing wrong with what this judge said. I only wish it wouldn't have been a televised interview, because now, folks are saying even more outrageous things about the guy.

jmo
I don't find the judge being friends with TC unusual either. as you and others have pointed out being from a small town in a lightly populated region, I would expect everyone to pretty much know everyone. Some of the area residents have known one another their entire lives. So far I have seen nothing to indicate the judge in question has done anything wrong. If he has, it will come out, but for now I believed his reaction (shock) to TC's involvement in this crime to be genuine. JMO
 
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