Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

[Artis]

This timeline is a “must” read from the OSBI published by the Oklahoman newspaper! Thanks so much for this link. I now feel this is not the first time for this group! The victims cell phones quit transmitting two minutes after diversion from the main road! TA’s 5 purchased burner phones were at this location at the same time. Then, 3 of the burner phones were tracked to the burial site within an hour of them being diverted. The other two burner phones were tracked back to TA’s house at the same time. I have no comprehension how someone could divert a car, commit this heinous crime, have victims and phones disposed of within one hour and be the first time they have committed a crime like this! <modsnip: no source link for information stated as fact/sleuthing random people>

There's a better report than this one. An actual police report. I don't know how to locate it so maybe someone with a link to documents can paste it here. There were only three burner phones. There were five stun guns. Cora's daughter said she saw two burner phones charging on Cora's nightstand before the murders. The Twomblys took two vehicles to the murders so each would have had a burner phone. Cora's daughter said her mother and stepfather (Twomblys) blocked the road and diverted the victims to where Tad, Tifany and Paul Grice were waiting. If that's true - and it's what Cora told her daughter - perhaps Tad. Tifany and Grice rode together, needing only one of the burner phones. Only two of the burner phones were at the burial site. The third I can't recall where it went but it's all in the police report with the numbers for each phone. No mention of the stun guns but, I guess, that's because this report was about establishing times and locations.

 

[CuriousCricket]

I was wondering the same. Cora did mention to her daughter that the “mission” didn’t go as planned….wonder if she was talking about them not having time to move the car-well, now how would the 4 know they didn’t have time to move it unless they knew JK or VB was talking with someone on the phone…or, JK could have gotten a few shots in…and they had to move 3 bodies instead of 2, but I think we would know that by now. If JK had gotten a few shots in, too bad she couldn’t have gotten the ring leader! What a twist that would have been!

- 9141 and 9085 start the day at the Twomblys’ place, then go to the Cullums. (it doesn’t say where phone 5753 begins its day, but presumably at the Cullums’?

- All three phones then go to the site of the car stop.

- 9141 then goes *back* to the Twomblys and stays there until it goes offline.

- 9085 and 5752 go from the car stop site to the Cullums, and then to the Beasleys, until they go offline as well.

I wonder if VB and JK were killed at the Cullum location, then taken to the preplanned, "off our property location so they can't ever be traced back to us" Beasley location, where phones were tossed in with VB and JK remains.

Since the three burner phones split up after the attack and one went to the Twombleys, I'm guessing that may have been PG. After he saw what happened, it's possible PG deserted the group and drove to the Twombleys because who or where could you possibly go after such an incident?
If you really, really need to talk, there's no one you can possibly talk to.

But CW's statement doesn't mention PG coming to the house.

Since Twombley was leader of the Misfits group, perhaps PG drove onto Twombley land, but took a desolate lane somewhere and did not go to the house where CW might see him. He could have shut down the phone and committed suicide, unable to deal with what had happened. If GP were out of sight on Twombley land all that was needed was for his body to be discovered and Cole to handle the job of making him "disappear."

edited for clarification and new ideas.

 

[Bree1950]

Serious point you bring up. Where WAS Cimmaron county on any and all of this?

Hopefully they weren’t involved!

 

[tatertot]

I was starting to feel empathy too..
But when I add his behaviors, assault on the new wife, saying the discussion with his grandmother did not take place, and now knowing he DID know about the plan...I've totally changed my tune.
Massive rehab should be in order, not rehab to get out of jail time.
Wondering what he is thinking about. A dead wife and mother?. A mailed mother?

The assault is another matter, but I'm hesitant to judge him on this case when there's so much unknown. I do have to wonder if TA had some twisted, long-term master plan to remove WR from the picture by enabling and encouraging his addiction so that his custody would revert to her. This might have involved setting him up for failure and/or facilitating his access to or even supplying drugs/alcohol, then making sure he got caught. Yes, personal responsibility is crucial, but I can't help but think it was handier for her to have him alive for custody purposes but unable to parent. And in the case that VB had "disappeared" and WR became clean and sober and gained custody, I don't for a minute think TA would have stood for that. He would've been next.

 

[Bree1950]

This information specific about the location of the burner phones near the bodies is new since AA dated April 12, 2024.

Court documents reveal suspect admitted responsibility for death of missing Kansas women

KSN has obtained new documents in the case of Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley.

www.ksn.com

4/17/24

The newly obtained court documents also revealed that the bodies of Butler and Kelley were found where the burner phones were disposed of – on a pasture below a dam that Cullum rents for cattle grazing. The property, which is located 8.5 miles from the location where the women disappeared and where Butler’s vehicle was found, had fresh dirt work done.

“The area of disturbed dirt was excavated and the bodies of two individuals were discovered,” the court document states.

I couldn’t believe they buried some of the burner phones with the body! They did no research on how burner phones are tracked to specific locations! It may take a tad bit longer than a regular phone but it’s available with FBI technology. I’m also no wondering, since the victims bodies have been identified, the FBI or OSBI could get a warrant for Apple to unlock the phone content and search contents without the phone present. Maybe that is what they are doing?

 

[Seattle1]

Kansas moms killings: Ex-attorney of arrested grandma was ‘shocked’

“I could not imagine it. It was a shock to find out she was charged,” Stephen Jones told NewsNation’s Chris Cuomo.

www.newsnationnow.com

4/18/23

[..]

The issue that kicked off the sequence of events leading up to Butler and Kelley’s deaths was the issue of temporary visitation, Jones said.

Jones told Cuomo that there was no indication that Adams was desperate enough to kill Butler over the issue. And while Adams was a well-known member of the community, Jones did not know she was a part of the so-called anti-government religious group “God’s Misfits.”

“But I’m not surprised,” Jones said. “I’ve represented people in the Panhandle for over 50 years. And every time I go out there, I hear about a new group that doesn’t believe in your dollar bill or other things.”

He continued, “Since 1960, they have changed politically. It’s very Evangelical, very conspiratorial in the sense. Not trusting the government.”

If the allegations against Adams are true, Jones said then it would be a horrible homicide in which two people were ambushed.

“It’s gothic,” Jones said. “It’s something out of the Bates Motel and it’s a terrible thing. Whoever’s responsible for it, it’s shocking there’s no question about that.”

 

[Bree1950]

I couldn’t believe they buried some of the burner phones with the body! They did no research on how burner phones are tracked to specific locations! It may take a tad bit longer than a regular phone but it’s available with FBI technology. I’m also no wondering, since the victims bodies have been identified, the FBI or OSBI could get a warrant for Apple to unlock the phone content and search contents without the phone present. Maybe that is what they are doing?

I’m referring in regards to Apple if either one had an iPhone. I’m also still curious if Jilian or Veronica had an Apple Watch.

 

[Herat]

Serious point you bring up. Where WAS Cimmaron county on any and all of this?

From what I can find out, the kidnapping, murder, and burials all occurred in Texas County, so Cimarron County doesn't have any jurisdiction over the investigation or prosecution of these cases. Thankfully.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

The assault is another matter, but I'm hesitant to judge him on this case when there's so much unknown. I do have to wonder if TA had some twisted, long-term master plan to remove WR from the picture by enabling and encouraging his addiction so that his custody would revert to her. This might have involved setting him up for failure and/or facilitating his access to or even supplying drugs/alcohol, then making sure he got caught. Yes, personal responsibility is crucial, but I can't help but think it was handier for her to have him alive for custody purposes but unable to parent. And in the case that VB had "disappeared" and WR became clean and sober and gained custody, I don't for a minute think TA would have stood for that. He would've been next.

Well yes, we know she threatened him directly.
I wonder what may eventually happen with her other two kids....what did THEY know, they WERE living there.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

"After her arrest on April 13, 2024, during a custodial interview, Adams made statements to law enforcement indicating she was responsible for the deaths of Butler and Kelley," Lt. Amie Gates wrote.

"At a hearing scheduled for April 17, 2024, Butler would potentially have been granted unsupervised visitation with her children," the OSBI agent wrote in the affidavit. "Adams vehemently opposed this and went to great lengths to plan and purchase items used in Butler and Kelley's murders."

The pathologist is still working to determine the causes of death. The state's chief medical examiner, Dr. Eric Pfeifer, said Thursday they were not shot.

In the new affidavit, the OSBI confirmed that the bodies were found on property leased by Cullum to graze cattle. The bodies were recovered after an excavation of an area of disturbed dirt.

Adams and Cullum were described in the new affidavit as having "a history of violent interactions, including death threats and intimidation against individuals who disagree with their ideas."

At the time of his arrest, Cullum had a rifle, ammunition, body armor and a go-bag prepared at his residence, according to the affidavit.

"Both Cole, who was openly armed, and Cora confronted law enforcement officials in the State of Texas in an attempt to interfere and intimidate witnesses cooperating with law enforcement," according to the affidavit.

OSBI: Grandma admitted responsibility for deaths of two Kansas women in Oklahoma

New affidavit contains revelations about Oklahoma Panhandle murder case that has attracted national attention.

www.oklahoman.com

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

I was looking at the yearbooks on Ancestry. TA was voted "Most Likely to Succeed" and "Most Athletic". Talk about a prediction gone wrong!

It makes perfect sense to me. Many narcissists have the characteristics to become successful. I can also see that TA, if challenged, would do everything in her power to eliminate the threat. Here are a couple of articles that might explain her personality.

https://www.inc.com/business-insider/narcissists-more-successful-research-psychology.html

When Narcissistic Rage Ends In Murder | Crime Traveller

When a true narcissist is challenged they can explode in a narcissistic rage, an anger so fierce it can result in violence and in some cases, murder.

www.crimetraveller.org

It's just too bad that TA wasn't able to control her anger/outrage when the kids' mother actually had the nerve to sue for custody of her own children.

JMO.

 

[curiouser_]

I wonder if that's what gave TA the idea.

Was wondering that myself.

 

[Hestia's Fire]

I’m referring in regards to Apple if either one had an iPhone. I’m also still curious if Jilian or Veronica had an Apple Watch.

I posted about this 5 zillion posts ago, but on Jilian's Facebook page you can see in several of her photos that she's wearing some kind of smart watch. I can't tell if it's an Apple watch or another brand, but she definitely had one. I don't know if she was wearing it that day, though.

 

[Artis]

“I could not imagine it. It was a shock to find out she was charged,” Stephen Jones told NewsNation’s Chris Cuomo

“But I’m not surprised,” Jones said. “I’ve represented people in the Panhandle for over 50 years. And every time I go out there, I hear about a new group that doesn’t believe in your dollar bill or other things.”

He continued, “Since 1960, they have changed politically. It’s very Evangelical, very conspiratorial in the sense. Not trusting the government.”

“It’s gothic,” Jones said. “It’s something out of the Bates Motel and it’s a terrible thing. Whoever’s responsible for it, it’s shocking there’s no question about that.”

Kansas moms killings: Ex-attorney of arrested grandma was ‘shocked’

“I could not imagine it. It was a shock to find out she was charged,” Stephen Jones told NewsNation’s Chris Cuomo.

www.newsnationnow.com

I'd love to hear Stepehen Jones' thoughts about PG. Jones was the defense atty for Timothy McVeigh and he exposed who John Doe #2 was, though the government never prosecuted him and remained shutm on the issue.

 

[VeraVa]

I’m not sure what IANAL stands for? Reading your post, I’m thinking we could have some good conversations! I’m a widow of a Prosecutor.

I am certain it is I am not a lawyer.

 

[Chimera]

"After her arrest on April 13, 2024, during a custodial interview, Adams made statements to law enforcement indicating she was responsible for the deaths of Butler and Kelley," Lt. Amie Gates wrote.

"At a hearing scheduled for April 17, 2024, Butler would potentially have been granted unsupervised visitation with her children," the OSBI agent wrote in the affidavit. "Adams vehemently opposed this and went to great lengths to plan and purchase items used in Butler and Kelley's murders."

The pathologist is still working to determine the causes of death. The state's chief medical examiner, Dr. Eric Pfeifer, said Thursday they were not shot.

In the new affidavit, the OSBI confirmed that the bodies were found on property leased by Cullum to graze cattle. The bodies were recovered after an excavation of an area of disturbed dirt.

Adams and Cullum were described in the new affidavit as having "a history of violent interactions, including death threats and intimidation against individuals who disagree with their ideas."

At the time of his arrest, Cullum had a rifle, ammunition, body armor and a go-bag prepared at his residence, according to the affidavit.

"Both Cole, who was openly armed, and Cora confronted law enforcement officials in the State of Texas in an attempt to interfere and intimidate witnesses cooperating with law enforcement," according to the affidavit.

OSBI: Grandma admitted responsibility for deaths of two Kansas women in Oklahoma

New affidavit contains revelations about Oklahoma Panhandle murder case that has attracted national attention.

www.oklahoman.com

Bbm.
At least in this case, shooting might have been a mercy.
Just so angry ... thinking about the fear and pain of their final moments !
Omo.

 

[Gigiky]

Senseless!

 

[SpiderFalcon]

Regarding earlier comments that Tifany Adams admitted involvement in the murders, I think she feels justified in the murders. I think she expects others to treat her as the saviour who protects children, rather than a murderer who caused life-long harm to at least 6 children.

In Tifany Adams' warped world, Veronica was going to expose the children to a man that Tifany Adams alleged would harm the children. There seems to be no truth to this; no independent evidence. The allegation strikes me as a well known dirty tactic used by parents (and others) when they are desperate for custody, but don't have a leg to stand on.

That is Tifany's defence. She feels justified in murdering Veronica because she believes that Veronica would place the children in danger - or, at the very least, that's what Tifany wants others to believe. I think that is her defence for organizing the murder of Veronica.

She has no defence for organizing the murder of Jilian. Per Cora's statement to her daughter, Jilian's murder was justified because "[Jilian] had supported [Veronica] Butler". That is not true. Jilian Kelley was a paid employee performing a role specified by a court order. Jilian was supporting the children. I think it was the murder of Jilian that led to Cora's daughter contacting police. We probably would not know about the murder of Veronica if Jilian was not there.
View attachment 498019
Affidavit for Arrest Warrant

Yes to this. I am beginning to wonder if the participants will try some type of "self-defense" strategy. If Jillian had a gun (we don't know if she did), and if she brandished it at them, and/or got a shot off, since there were no witnesses, they could say they had only planned to scare the women, and it's JK's fault for coming at them with a gun, they only had stun guns/hammers, they had to defend themselves. It makes my brain hurt to try and think like crazy people. This could be TA's justification for cold bloodedly MURDERING innocent people. I still can't believe the ridiculousness of ALL OF IT.

 

[VeraVa]

State Sen. Nathan Dahm, who is the chairman of the Oklahoma GOP, told KOCO 5 that he was aware of her involvement.

“This is a tragic situation, with innocent children being at the centre of this still-developing situation,” he told the outlet. “While we at the Oklahoma Republican Party have no personal relationship or knowledge of the individuals who have been accused in this senseless crime, we have been made aware that Ms Adams was previously elected by a handful of people to the role of Chair in her county.

Suspect in death of 2 Kansas women was Cimarron County GOP chair

State Sen. Nathan Dahm, who is the chairman of the Oklahoma GOP, spoke out on Tuesday on the tragic situation and the suspect's position

www.koco.com

Yes, they are going to want to stay away from her like a dirty diaper in a Walmart parking lot.

 

[Bree1950]

Bbm.
At least in this case, shooting might have been a mercy.
Just so angry ... thinking about the fear and pain of their final moments !
Omo.

I can’t imagine the horror they had to have suffered!