Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

[doublestop]

Reasonable question - why weren't police curious about a vehicle reportedly out of place 1000 ft. West of Hwy 95 and Road L intersection? Why did police pay attention at 12:09 p.m.? Is it because family was reporting the same troubling scene at the Kia and a missing person?

I suspect checking on an abandoned vehicle would be low on their priority list, even if someone had called it in. Cars break down and get left in place while someone picks up the driver and goes for parts.

 

[otto]

I'm not really looking forward to the autopsy results.

I think they may be shocking, very brutal and horrific. I think they will document pre-mortem torture.

Person 5 is not charged with the murders. If not, why not. This sounds more and more like a closed casket closed courtroom murder.

 

[Boxer]

I doubt it - my impression is the religious right are not into drugs or involved in the drug trade. And everyone can tell by sight what's going on on other peoples land. Plus, only weed (and opium) is grown as a plant, most drugs are manufactured in labs.

JMO

Old farm buildings used for labs throughout midwest, probbaly in OK too.

 

[Herat]

Person 5 is not charged with the murders. If not, why not. This sounds more and more like a closed casket closed courtroom murder.

The fact that Person 5 has not been arrested for some part of the plot and/or crimes is unclear to most everyone at this point, otto.

We just don't know from the information that has been disclosed, which is essentially the same report of a single personal discussion repeated the same way for each of the 4 current arrested individuals.

 

[Bree1950]

Investigators needed probable cause to take Tifany Adams' cell phone. Was that April 1, two days after the bloody scene was discovered?

Have we seen the affidavit warrant for Tifany's phone? I'm curious. Was probable cause that Veronica Tifany said she spoke to Veronica at 9 a.m., alleging that Veronica cancelled the visit? Was it because Person 5 was traumatized by shattered car windows, battered women blood pools, and a broken hammer ... so he got a lawyer and reported the murders with immunity? What triggered the warrant to seize Tifany's phone so soon after the murders and before she had a chance to erase history.

Even if it’s erased, the FBI can get to it. Possibly, the reason for the FBI was

THANK YOU! I wondered where FIVE came

 

[browneyes]

Even if it’s erased, the FBI can get to it. Possibly, the reason for the FBI was

I was replying to the post about the 5 burner phones. There were only 3 burner phones.

 

[Bree1950]

THANK YOU! I wondered where FIVE came from.

TA purchased 5 stun guns. This is most likely where five came from.
March 23
Adams purchased five stun guns from the Big R store in Guymon, Oklahoma, according to the OSBI.
Here is the timeline for the burner phones:
From the OSBI in the Oklahoman
9:42 a.m. Butler and Kelley's cell phones stop transmitting signals.
Three pre-paid cellular phones purchased by Adams were at the location of Butler's car at the time of Butler and Kelley's disappearance
10:05 - 10:16 a.m. Two of the pre-paid cellular phones were at Cullum's residence.
10:16 - 10:35 a.m. Two of the pre-paid cellular phones were at a property rented by Cullum for cattle grazing about 8.5 miles away from where Butler's car was found.

 

[Bree1950]

Good point.

LE has not specified when the burner phones were purchased. It was in a sentence about the 5 tasers, so it implied the phones and the tasers were purchased nearly simultaneously.

I thought there was footage of her buying the burner phones at a Walmart, her in a blue long-sleeved T-shirt with an American flag and a political logo on it.

The OSBI released that TA purchased 3 burner phones on Feb 13th at the Walmart in Guymon, OK. She then, according to the OSBI purchased 5 stun guns on March 23rd at the BigR in Gaymon.
This is what the OSBI released and the Oklahoman printed in the paper on April 18th

 

[Bree1950]

That's why TA bought 5 tasers

It was going to be a group project, almost like ritualistic killings.

I think it may well have been a ritualistic killing. The Medical Examiner released information today that they were not shot.

 

[Sundog]

I think it may well have been a ritualistic killing. The Medical Examiner released information today that they were not shot.

Do you have a link for the Medical Examiner's information that was released today, per your post? Thanks.

 

[otto]

I think it may well have been a ritualistic killing. The Medical Examiner released information today that they were not shot.

What do you mean by ritualistic? That a group of like minded people wound each other up until, as a group of 5, they committed an ambush murder?

Ritualistic in the sense that they were "on a mission" to eliminate the former girlfriend of Tifany Adams' son because she would allegedly place her children in danger at some time in the future?

 

[charmingbetsy]

That is a great question! As to what might have been disclosed in an AA….. there may be this comparison?

As I remember, initially there was a trove of TA and son’s custody documents and related published information that was originally available on an OSBI website. Those documents were then suddenly removed and pulled, for reasons not yet clear. I do not know that they have since been released. Perhaps some credentialed investigative journals can inquire?

I look forward to those originally unsealed public documents - to be properly redacted (if needed or as appropriate, and accounting for any confidential or allowed privacy) - then properly rereleased by OSBI so that this can be determined.

Perhaps some things have inadvertently been disclosed in prior document publications? Yet once released and available it is public information TMK?

And as many have said……. IMO it seems this scenario and the local authority and involvement and investigative work needs to be carefully examined. Hoping that some FOIA and other requests might also be submitted to investigate these items. MOO

This KSN article briefly addresses the records issue. The records were sealed due to the criminal investigation and for the privacy of the minors. Sealing a civil court record because it may be used in a criminal investigation is actually against the law in Oklahoma. But, minor privacy is a fairly good excuse. I have a lot of opinions on the scope of what was sealed, but I doubt anyone is up to challenging the order in this particular case.

Missing Kansas moms were shot, blood found near car: NewsNation

NewsNation, which is owned by KSN’s parent company Nexstar, has reported Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley were shot, and blood was found near the car they were last seen in.

www.ksn.com

 

[kccorona]

Do you have a link for the Medical Examiner's information that was released today, per your post? Thanks.

Not OP, but I was able to find new info from M.E. re: cause of death in today's article from The Oklahoman:

The pathologist is still working to determine the causes of death. The state's chief medical examiner, Dr. Eric Pfeifer, said Thursday they were not shot.

In the new affidavit, the OSBI confirmed that the bodies were found on property leased by Cullum to graze cattle. The bodies were recovered after an excavation of an area of disturbed dirt.

The OSBI revealed in the affidavit a stun gun was also located at the excavation site.

This is definitely new info, as we had previously seen News Nation reporting "sources told their producers the women were shot." This was prior to the arrests though, so likely rumors from a thought-to-be reliable source.

 

[Error505]

If you read

the OSBI timeline, published in the Oklahoman on April 18th, some of the burner phones were found with the victims. They tracked signals from TC’s leased farm property at 10:26 AM the morning of the crime about an hour after the car was blocked on the road. This means within a time line of an hour they were able to block car and drive 8.5 miles to bury victims! Veronica and Jilian’s personal phones stopped transmitting 2 minutes after they were diverted on the road ( I’m wondering if this is when the stuns were utilized?). The ladies phones and Jilian’s pistol are still missing. I’m think they kept these items as trophies of their work like sicko Perps are known to do. Does anyone know if either one had an Apple Watch on that day? An Apple Watch is what recorded Jamal Khashoggi’s murder at the Saudi Embassy unknown to everyone at the time!

BBM
From Jilian’s fb page I remember seeing a photo with what looked like an Apple watch, but no way to know for sure and I’ve not heard it mentioned by family.

 

[vls12345]

All viable theories but I am still baffled why put the name in AA?

I'd put out before that I thought LE did it to keep PG on short leash but then the statement made by the OSBI Spokesperson about not expecting more arrests etc. imo simply doesn't make sense. Perhaps the Spokesperson hadn't rehearsed a response to the PG questions that were inevitable? IDK. But, I've not seen someone named in an AA with the fact pattern seen in the AA for PG and NOT then be named a POI at a minimum.

Just hope LE figures it out or has PG in protective custody.

MOO

Re: Grice...

If the OSBI spokesperson said they didn't expect more arrests, maybe he meant not expecting any more arrests *by the OSBI*. Could there be an arrest coming from some other LE group like the FBI? MOO and just a guess/possibility.

 

[MickeysVoice]

Police say a fifth person who attended those meetings was not arrested. NewNation learned Wednesday night that the man was taken into custody and questioned by authorities but was then released.

Kansas moms killing: Neighbor says ‘We’re not cultists, demons’

A local man who saw police find the two Kansas moms’ bodies knew both victims and the suspects being questioned in the murder investigation.

www.newsnationnow.com

According to this article, it appears that PG has been questioned recently? Or is LE just now confirming that they have questioned him and he was questioned prior?

 

[MassGuy]

NewsNation Report from earlier tonight concerning PG. Apparently he was questioned by OSBI and the FBI, but ultimately released. So really no answers there as to what's going on with him.

 

[MassGuy]

Police say a fifth person who attended those meetings was not arrested. NewNation learned Wednesday night that the man was taken into custody and questioned by authorities but was then released.

Kansas moms killing: Neighbor says ‘We’re not cultists, demons’

A local man who saw police find the two Kansas moms’ bodies knew both victims and the suspects being questioned in the murder investigation.

www.newsnationnow.com

According to this article, it appears that PG has been questioned recently? Or is LE just now confirming that they have questioned him and he was questioned prior?

I take this to mean that during the course of the investigation he was questioned but not charged. No word on if this occurred prior to the arrests or if it occurred at around the same time.

 

[kccorona]

I take this to mean that during the course of the investigation he was questioned but not charged. No word on if this occurred prior to the arrests or if it occurred at around the same time.

I would think it had to be at the same time or after the arrests of the other four... otherwise I'd be concerned he or his immediate family would find some way to communicate with his four "friends" that he'd been arrested and questioned.

 

[kccorona]

Realized my earlier post with the 4/18 info from the M.E. is likely paywalled for most, so here's another site that should be widely accessible:

OSBI: Grandma admitted responsibility for deaths of two Kansas women in Oklahoma

New affidavit contains revelations about Oklahoma Panhandle murder case that has attracted national attention.

www.aol.com

"The pathologist is still working to determine the causes of death. The state's chief medical examiner, Dr. Eric Pfeifer, said Thursday they were not shot.

In the new affidavit, the OSBI confirmed that the bodies were found on property leased by Cullum to graze cattle. The bodies were recovered after an excavation of an area of disturbed dirt.

The OSBI revealed in the affidavit a stun gun was also located at the excavation site. Adams had bought five stun guns in Guymon on March 23."