Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

[ClearAhead]

Maybe or maybe CW was right about Grice being placed at the scene of the murders, just like she was right about everything else.

Your post just reminded me that Tifany picked up the kiddos from fellow Misfit's home, the Cooks, around noon. That would be right after she murdered two women around 9:45-10:00 AM and disposed of their bodies. I often take longer than that to grocery shop. Mind blowing.

CW can only be right about what CT told her as CW was not there. But considering everything we know, CT certainly does not exhibit a high degree of morals and integrity. But as she expected her 16 year old daughter to clean a car involved in a double murder, I don’t think she’d hesitate at trying to harm the reputation of an innocent person. JMO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Bodies of 2 women killed in Oklahoma were buried on land leased by 1 of the 4 suspects, court documents say

The bodies of two women who were slain in rural Oklahoma last month were buried in a cattle pasture leased by one of the four suspects – all of whom are accused of plotting the victims’ deaths amid a bitter custody battle, according to court documents.

news.yahoo.com

​

Well, I find this article well written and clear..especially to those not familiar with the case.

 

[Sundog]

I assume burner phones do not have audio or camera capacity, correct?

"Burner phones" are no-contract phones. Most of them are the same phones that you buy when you buy a contract phone and sign up for a contract with a carrier like Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, etc. Only you pay monthly as long as you want the service, there is no contract involved. Burner phones/no contract phones range from the lower end up to the thousands of dollars. The latest Samsung smart phone is available as a burner phone/no contract phone OR as a contract phone. They can have all the same apps, video recording, camera quality, voice recording, etc. So there really is no difference in the no contract phones and the contract phones regarding their features. The only difference is the payment plan - either pre-paid or post-paid/no contract or contract.

 

[Cool Cats]

Can someone explain this Grice to me? Who is he and what does he have to do with the 4 defendants?

 

[Simply Southern]

Maybe or maybe CW was right about Grice being placed at the scene of the murders, just like she was right about everything else.

Your post just reminded me that Tifany picked up the kiddos from fellow Misfit's home, the Cooks, around noon. That would be right after she murdered two women around 9:45-10:00 AM and disposed of their bodies. I often take longer than that to grocery shop. Mind blowing.

CW was giving hearsay testimony, she was not a witness.

Per media reports he was interviewed twice FBI and locally. As standard procedure, I'm sure FBI has his cell phone records and more. At the last press conference, they thanked ALL the companies for quick response to their subpoenas/search warrant for records. I'm sure the request was for several months prior to the event. Digital Data forensic evidence, is becoming a major component in trials.

Big Brother knows where we are at all times and can quickly extract the information.

Until PG is charged or stated as a person of interest, he is innocent.
Moo

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Can someone explain this Grice to me? Who is he and what does he have to do with the 4 defendants?

You really have to track back in the thread and read the AAs. It is hard to fully comprehend if you don't read those.
Obviously he remains a big mystery as to what he did, where he is, and how WAS he involved.

For a simple statement, a primary provider of testimony, CW, indicated that her mother, Cora(one suspect), told her "Grice was involved".

 

[x_files]

You really have to track back in the thread and read the AAs. It is hard to fully comprehend of you don't read those.
Obviously he remains a big mystery as to what he did, where he is, and how WAS he involved.

For a simple statement, a primary provider of testimony, CW, indicated that her mother, Cora(one suspect), told her "Grice was involved".

He probably took a deal and was granted immunity. If not yeah, it is a mystery where he went.

 

[Herat]

Maybe or maybe CW was right about Grice being placed at the scene of the murders, just like she was right about everything else.

Your post just reminded me that Tifany picked up the kiddos from fellow Misfit's home, the Cooks, around noon. That would be right after she murdered two women around 9:45-10:00 AM and disposed of their bodies. I often take longer than that to grocery shop. Mind blowing.

I know, right?

Just picked up the kids, whose mother she had just brutally tortured with a stun gun and hammer, murdered, and buried in the ground.

I assume the kids were also at her house when she was arrested. I wonder if she tried to send them back to the Cook's when LE arrived.

<modsnip - discussion of the current location of the children is off limits>

 

[Herat]

No links?

What kind of a mystery man is this?

What is AA?

Arrest Affidavit

 

[Cool Cats]

Arrest Affidavit

Thanks.

 

[Seattle1]

Wonderful wrap up! Thank you.

I think 2023 was a pivotal year on the custody front as well given that it seemed TA effectively took control of the children <modsnip: no source links>

2023 also saw WR <modsnip>, gun charge, jail rehab and DV charge against his pregnant wife. He didn’t seem present in the lives of his children with VB but it’s hard to tell exactly why. Was it TA or simple disinterest or both?

MOO

Oh, I agree. I had to end my post at 2022 for the obvious reasons.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Thank you @Seattle1 Great summary!

Tifany’s attorney who handled the custody case regarding the grchildren was Stephen Jones, infamous for having represented Timothy McVeigh, OKC bomber. What chance does a young country girl, with limited finances, stand when it comes to fighting a custody battle with an attorney of his notoriety? Very slim chances of prevailing, and expensive even pursuing. I’ve got to really hand it to that young mom, she tried hard and didn’t give up. I’m sure TA thought she would give up! Here’s an interview Chris Cuomo did with Stephen Jones on Wednesday of this week.
Kansas moms case: Former attorney of arrested grandma was 'shocked' | Cuomo

via @YouTube

When the earlier published documents get re-released (which is soon one hopes!) it will be interesting to see how many of the prior filings by TA have reference to the noted attorney. And were submitted on TA’s behalf by that attorney?

As others have said, one would imagine that attorney fees for such an attorney would not be on the lower end of the scale. And from some prior disclosure of those documents it seemed a very protracted custody case. And TA was not the mother of the children.

Seems IMO from reviewing that protracted legal argument when it was available, what would one expect might result? As we now know, that includes the senseless deaths of VB and JK.

I shall refrain from anything further. Although it is not because I am at a loss for words. Such a sad and horrid matter IMO.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

@otto -- a couple of corrections on the timing here:

First, the Appellate brief by WR was filed May 2021, not August 2022, and this wasn't a sworn custody affidavit but IMO, a hit piece against VB drafted by team WR in an attempt to gain sole custody of the children.
VB was time barred from responding to the brief by WR, and even though the Court made its decision (August 5, 2022) on WR's brief only, the Court was not swayed by the allegations contained in the brief to remove the children from VB or place any restrictions on VB's custody but instead ruled the parents should share custody of the children. Previously, the trial court awarded the Mother sole, legal custody and the Father, standard visitation (May 2019).

We also know that even after the trial Court ruled on standard visitation for the Father, the parents were essentially enjoying shared physical custody of the children every other week from summer 2019 until VR and the children were evicted from property owned by the paternal grandmother-- causing VB to begin moving around.

IMO, I think this period of instability with housing and work by VB was all part of the grand plan by the puppet master (i.e., TA) where WR would have a basis to appeal the trial courts decision-- all in the hope that WR would obtain sole legal custody of the children.

What's also clear is this action to appeal the trial court's decision was contrary to WR's testimony during the 2019 custody trial where WR testified that in the best interest of his children, he would be agreeable to shared custody 50/50.
View attachment 498129
Emergency Orders by WR for physical custody came at the end of 2022 following allegations against VB's minor age family member. However, these court Motions, exchanges, and subsequent intervention Motions by TA can't be discussed since this period remains under seal.

Similar to the acknowledgement by the Appellate Court, I think the parents were young, immature, and struggled but were both finding their way to be fit, loving, and devoted parents to their children.

IMO, I don't think it was was ever WR's idea to remove the children from VB. I also don't think he ever wanted to be a fulltime custodial parent. I think WR was a pawn used by TA. What's his was hers, and this was not negotiable.

<modsnip: sleuthing someone not named a POI>

Appellate Custody Records

I am replying to this post by @Seattle1 simply to keep bringing it into view...it explains sooo much of the influence of TA over WR.
<modsnip: quoted post was snipped (sleuthing non POI and postings facts with no source link) and discussing documents no longer available to the public via an approved source>

I , for one, will never look at custody cases in the same way. TA was the queen manipulator.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Everything else she said was proved to be true. I don't think she misunderstood anything.

I am not yet convinced of such...just sayin.

 

[CuriousCricket]

"Burner phones" are no-contract phones. Most of them are the same phones that you buy when you buy a contract phone and sign up for a contract with a carrier like Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, etc. Only you pay monthly as long as you want the service, there is no contract involved. Burner phones/no contract phones range from the lower end up to the thousands of dollars. The latest Samsung smart phone is available as a burner phone/no contract phone OR as a contract phone. They can have all the same apps, video recording, camera quality, voice recording, etc. So there really is no difference in the no contract phones and the contract phones regarding their features. The only difference is the payment plan - either pre-paid or post-paid/no contract or contract.

People can use these burner phones exactly as contract phones -- but with much, much cheaper plans. Owners can go oneline and set up auto pay to a credit card so they never have to scramble to purchase new cards and add more time manually.

When handled like this, it's simple for LE to figure out who owns the phone as it's a very stable number.

However, for people who want to remain anonymous, minutes / time can be purchased on anonymous cards -- so many minutes or (I believe) so many days, up to a month or two at a time. If you're really up to no good maybe you'd purchase just a few minutes of usage as you'd shut the phone down and dispose of it quickly.

If phone and card are purchased with cash, it would be much more difficult for LE to determine the owner. However, most stores have cameras everywhere, so likely they could be tracked. Remember Rex Heuermann adding minutes to his burner phone? I was thinking that LE would have to have someone in their sights to recognize the purchaser, but I guess that's not true with all the facial recognition software (It's on TV, I guess it's in real life) available.

Also, I think it's a simple matter to open a new number on a phone using an anonymous card. However, I would think, as it makes sense, the number of phone numbers assigned to the same serial number could be easily discerned. Now, you'd probably need for the phone to carry numbers from the same Internet Provider, but with an "unlocked phone" I think you could probably pick up cards from different companies and run your phone on different networks.

However, if someone shut down a burner, then destroyed it and tossed it. Moving some distance away without any phone, then I think he could activate a new phone, with a new card, maybe a new company, and be invisible as the previous owner.

As I typed that, I've changed my mind. The phones and cards would need to have been bought at different times preferably at different stores - always for cash - and never to have been turned on at the same time. Now, could they be charged at the same time without that being revealed?

While TA, TC and the Twombleys were incredibly uninformed about tracking burner phones, I suspect someone very tuned in could still drive themselves crazy trying to be sure not to overlap or do something stupid to get themselves caught.

 

[Artis]

Why would they bother with an informant on a case in which no one seems to have given the concerns of the mother the slightest credence in the first place? If there is some connection to LE here, I doubt it had anything to do with protecting VB.

If such a connection exists, as has been suggested, you are right that it would have nothing to do with some domestic dispute - nor would the controlling party care if their informant were involved in a terrible but garden variety murder. Their only interest would be whatever information they're getting from the informant and protecting him from exposure, as the FBI did with Whitey Bulger who was actively killing people while working for the FBI (with their knowledge).

 

[GRT]

Everything else she said was proved to be true. I don't think she misunderstood anything.

I'm leaning in this direction as well. I don't think she misunderstood or misconstrued the story about PG. She was telling all she knew -- I can't imagine she'd get just one part of the story wrong.

If PG was there -- it could have happened as CW said Cora told her -- it didn't go as planned. Maybe the plan was not to kill them but to taze VB until she agreed not to seek visitation--put the fear of God in her. But then, maybe Jillian pulled out her gun and it turned into a hammerfest and a bloodbath that PG had no way to stop.

That is, if PG is a plant. Or, maybe not a plant but an informant.

I don't know -- that was all just wild speculation and MOO -- but there's something odd about the PG story we're hearing now. It just doesn't make sense.

All MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

I'm leaning in this direction as well. I don't think she misunderstood or misconstrued the story about PG. She was telling all she knew -- I can't imagine she'd get just one part of the story wrong.

If PG was there -- it could have happened as CW said Cora told her -- it didn't go as planned. Maybe the plan was not to kill them but to taze VB until she agreed not to seek visitation--put the fear of God in her. But then, maybe Jillian pulled out her gun and it turned into a hammerfest and a bloodbath that PG had no way to stop.

That is, if PG is a plant. Or, maybe not a plant but an informant.

I don't know -- that was all just wild speculation and MOO -- but there's something odd about the PG story we're hearing now. It just doesn't make sense.

All MOO

What is the PG story...sorry...trying to get caught up on all this. A bit convoluted.

 

[whowy]

CW was giving hearsay testimony, she was not a witness.

Per media reports he was interviewed twice FBI and locally. As standard procedure, I'm sure FBI has his cell phone records and more. At the last press conference, they thanked ALL the companies for quick response to their subpoenas/search warrant for records. I'm sure the request was for several months prior to the event. Digital Data forensic evidence, is becoming a major component in trials.

Big Brother knows where we are at all times and can quickly extract the information.

Until PG is charged or stated as a person of interest, he is innocent.
Moo

Wouldn't CT's statements to her daughter CW constitute party admissions rather than hearsay - insofar as CT's own culpability? Statements that are party admissions are generally admissable evidence - not subject to hearsay objections.

 

[Seattle1]

Bumping custody timeline as requested.

Please take note the timeline intentionally stops at Sept 2022 for the obvious reason, and in compliance with TOS.

ETA-- Custody Summary from the Public Docket:

• The parents WR and VB were never married and share two children born in 2015 and 2018.
• December 2018, the parties terminated their relationship.
• February 2019, the Father, WR, instituted an action to determine paternity and share custody of the children.
• May 2019 - the Court awarded sole, legal custody to the Mother, VB, and standard visitation to the Father, WR.
• May 2021 - the Father, WR, appealed the trial court's order.
• August 2022 - Based on the Appellant's (WR) brief only, the trial court's custody decision was reversed, and the matter remanded to the trial court to enter a shared custody agreement.
• September 2022 - Appellant/Petitioner WR's motion for appeal related attorneys fees denied.

OSCN Case Details