Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

[Trukrymhuntr]

Another thing I've wondered is if TA had a say in the court ordering her son (Wrangler) to go into rehab. If she really did have a lot of pull with authorities in her county, maybe they'd listen to her if she "suggested" that when he gets released from jail, it might be best for him to go to in-patient rehab for awhile. Maybe just to get him out of the way and give a solid alibi for his whereabouts during the murders. Whether he knew the plan or not... not sure.

I have thought this too!!

 

[Simply Southern]

Wouldn't CT's statements to her daughter CW constitute party admissions rather than hearsay - insofar as CT's own culpability? Statements that are party admissions are generally admissable evidence - not subject to hearsay objections.

Good question. In reading it seems complex.
Would you be able to dum it down, for me? I'm very interested.
Thanks

 

[Artis]

This is the spot where the bodies of missing Kansas moms Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley were found. I'm told they were buried ten feet below the ground and hay was used to cover the dirt.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1781264423190970797

I'd like to know what they planned on doing with Veronica's car. When Cora said things didn't go as planned, I think that might have something to do with why they didn't move it.

 

[Cool Cats]

Another thing I've wondered is if TA had a say in the court ordering her son (Wrangler) to go into rehab. If she really did have a lot of pull with authorities in her county, maybe they'd listen to her if she "suggested" that when he gets released from jail, it might be best for him to go to in-patient rehab for awhile. Maybe just to get him out of the way and give a solid alibi for his whereabouts during the murders. Whether he knew the plan or not... not sure.

I do not think TA had any say in Wrangler going into treatment. The treatment was court ordered.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1775161488732237927

 

[Artis]

Anyone have any ideas of how the situation with TA claiming responsibility for the deaths of VB and JK will play out in this case?

Its been awhile since I've seen a perp take responsibility for a double homicide in a DP State and so I wonder procedurally how it will all play out? What happens next with the legal case?

I realize we are waiting for ME to release report with manner and cause of death and then I believe State/County has 18 months to bring their case. Sorry if I'm not 100% on procedural issues as I'm not an attorney and the information I have is sadly from MSM and so I'm not sure if its correct. If any attorneys following along could explain how this all works in OK I would appreciate it greatly!

Does the State or Country Prosector simply take the confession to the Judge in an abbreviated trial format and then sentencing happens? I would think that the confession would have to be examined by the Court and the Defendant interviewed to the extent that they choose to be? Or, does the entire process happen outside of public view and is dealt with by the Judge? Or, does a full trial play out perhaps in another jurisdiction? I would think that TA might attempt to defend herself at trial but I'm not sure how that would square with her making a prior statement taking responsibilities for the deaths of VB and JK?

MOO

All we know is that she allegedly "took responsibility". She may have claimed self defense and will plead not guilty. I could see some story like they (the perps) just wanted to talk to Veronica and Jilian pulled a gun and things went sideways. <modsnip - diagnosing>

 

[whowy]

Bumping custody timeline as requested.

Please take note the timeline intentionally stops at Sept 2022 for the obvious reason, and in compliance with TOS.

Thank you for the docket entries. Seems like VB lost because she didn't have an atty for the custody appeal (couldn't afford?) and she didn't keep the Court informed of her address changes so she wasn't receiving notices & warnings of when her response was due. That was the salient point that put the ball in team TA's court. IMO Wrangler was just the proxy party in the litigation since parents generally have stronger custody grounds than grandparents. IMO TA most likely paid her son's legal fees which unfortunately tipped the scales of justice against VB.

 

[ClearAhead]

All we know is that she allegedly "took responsibility". She may have claimed self defense and will plead not guilty. I could see some story like they (the perps) just wanted to talk to Veronica and Jilian pulled a gun and things went sideways. <modsnip - diagnosing>

I wonder how she’d explain away lying about VB cancelling the children’s pick up, the location of the attack, the purchase of the three burner phones, the five stun guns, the incriminating internet searches and the predug hole where the bodies were found along with two burner phones and one stun gun, and burying/hiding the bodies as opposed to calling 911 after they managed to ‘escape’.

I don’t think a self-defense defense would ever fly, far too many incriminating circumstances.

 

[Cool Cats]

I wonder how she’d explain away lying about VB cancelling the children’s pick up, the location of the attack, the purchase of the three burner phones, the five stun guns, the incriminating internet searches and the predug hole where the bodies were found along with two burner phones and one stun gun, and burying/hiding the bodies as opposed to calling 911 after they managed to ‘escape’.

I don’t think a self-defense defense would ever fly, far too many incriminating circumstances.

Right. "Taking responsibility" in an affidavit normally means just that....you are responsible.

Lawfully defending yourself is just that....you are not responsible because it is the other person's fault for threatening you.... 2 Cents

 

[ClearAhead]

What is the PG story...sorry...trying to get caught up on all this. A bit convoluted.

There is no story. He’s not been charged as of now. All we know according to the AA, Cora’s daughter said her mother said there was a 5th person present and it was him.

LE has already spoken to him. So it’s not as if they’re unaware of what was written within the AA. But since they don’t take instructions from armchair detectives, they haven’t immediately arrested this person nor informed us why they haven’t. Best reason is because he’s innocent of criminal involvement. JMO

 

[Seattle1]

Gone but not forgotten. An innocent woman lost in the sacrifice of assisting a mother to celebrate her children. RIP Jillian Kelley:

Jilian Delores (Dalbey) Kelley Obituary 2024 - Robson Funeral Home

View Jilian Delores (Dalbey) Kelley's obituary, send flowers, find service dates, and sign the guestbook.

www.robsonfuneralhome.com

 

[ClearAhead]

Right. "Taking responsibility" in an affidavit normally means just that....you are responsible.

Lawfully defending yourself is just that....you are not responsible because it is the other person's fault for threatening you.... 2 Cents

Yes I agree. It’s not as if she deserves to be complimented however it might warrant a sigh of relief by the families of the victims because it sure seems as if she’s admitting her guilt.
BBM

Court docs: Suspect charged in Kansas moms murders told investigators she's responsible for deaths

Court documents say a woman accused in the murder of two Kansas women whose bodies were found in the Oklahoma Panhandle gave a statement saying she was responsible for the deaths.

www.koco.com

The court documents say Adams gave a recorded statement to investigators after her arrest that she was responsible for the deaths of Butler and Kelley.

 

[SpiderFalcon]

What is the PG story...sorry...trying to get caught up on all this. A bit convoluted.

CC: this is one of the AAs. You can read about PG in it.

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes I agree. It’s not as if she deserves to be complimented however it might warrant a sigh of relief by the families of the victims because it sure seems as if she’s admitting her guilt.
BBM

Court docs: Suspect charged in Kansas moms murders told investigators she's responsible for deaths

Court documents say a woman accused in the murder of two Kansas women whose bodies were found in the Oklahoma Panhandle gave a statement saying she was responsible for the deaths.

www.koco.com

The court documents say Adams gave a recorded statement to investigators after her arrest that she was responsible for the deaths of Butler and Kelley.

In court cases it comes up alot about the defendant taking responsibility which means admitting you are guilty of your charge.

Then remorse is a seperate issue.

Or so it seems.

2 Cents

 

[agilbe]

There is a phrase that keeps coming up in the AA.... "Adams knew the path the judge walked to work". Were they planning on taking out the judge too??

 

[Hestia's Fire]

There is a phrase that keeps coming up in the AA.... "Adams knew the path the judge walked to work". Were they planning on taking out the judge too??

It certainly sounds like it. At least that's how I interpreted it.

 

[SteveP]

I'd like to know what they planned on doing with Veronica's car. When Cora said things didn't go as planned, I think that might have something to do with why they didn't move it.

I believe, based on the alleged size of the predug hole, the plan had been for the car to be buried along with the two victims. Perhaps PG was intended to be that driver, at some point. JMO

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

I believe, based on the alleged size of the predug hole, the plan had been for the car to be buried along with the two victims. Perhaps PG was intended to be that driver. JMO

Yes, and have to wonder what became of all the suspect’s vehicles that were involved. And that IMO includes the supposed flatbed.

Have any pictures of the actual flatbed vehicle involved shown up on MSM? MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

PANHANDLE MURDERS: I went over some court documents filed this week for Tifany Adams—in a motion to hold her without bail, prosecutors say she took responsibility for the deaths of Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley.
@koconews

https://twitter.com/x/status/1781416378735501823

 

[PommyMommy]

APR 19, 2024

Document: Grandmother admits to role in murder of 2 women found dead in Texas County

A grandmother admitted to her role in the murder of two women found dead in Texas County, Oklahoma.According to the motion to hold Tifany Adams without bail, af

abc7amarillo.com

[...]

According to prosecutors, they first drove to Hugoton, Kansas and tried to lure Butler out of her house so they could throw an anvil through her windshield while she drove down the road.

When that failed, Adams bought burner phones and tasers and plotted to kidnap and kill the victims.

The grandmother of Wrangler Rickman, the children's father, said Rickman told her they wouldn't have to worry about the custody battle much longer because Adams had it under control. He said Adams “knew the path the Judge walked to work" and would "take out Veronica at drop off."

[...]

 

[whowy]

Good question. In reading it seems complex.
Would you be able to dum it down, for me? I'm very interested.
Thanks

2023 Oklahoma Statutes :: Title 12. Civil Procedure :: §12-2801. Definitions.

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

Oklahoma Statutes Title 12 sec12-2801 Definitions:
B: A statement is not hearsay if:
2. The statement is offered against a party and is:
a) The party's own statement in either an individual or a representative capacity.