Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

[Bree1950]

The intentional use of hammers and the tasers tell me this is torture. Extended intentional painful torture, like a blood-lust frenzy with 5 people with tasers and who knows how many hammers.

I am dreading the autopsy report.

I’m also dreading the autopsy report. I’m just praying they weren’t alive when buried.

 

[Trino]

APR 19, 2024

Document: Grandmother admits to role in murder of 2 women found dead in Texas County

A grandmother admitted to her role in the murder of two women found dead in Texas County, Oklahoma.According to the motion to hold Tifany Adams without bail, af

abc7amarillo.com

[...]

According to prosecutors, they first drove to Hugoton, Kansas and tried to lure Butler out of her house so they could throw an anvil through her windshield while she drove down the road.

When that failed, Adams bought burner phones and tasers and plotted to kidnap and kill the victims.

The grandmother of Wrangler Rickman, the children's father, said Rickman told her they wouldn't have to worry about the custody battle much longer because Adams had it under control. He said Adams “knew the path the Judge walked to work" and would "take out Veronica at drop off."

[...]

Such non-intelligence at work to plan like this and think you could get away with it.

 

[Artis]

I believe, based on the alleged size of the predug hole, the plan had been for the car to be buried along with the two victims. Perhaps PG was intended to be that driver, at some point. JMO

All I've heard is that it was 10' deep. We'd need to know the diameter to figure out if a car would fit in it.

 

[simlyme]

All I've heard is that it was 10' deep. We'd need to know the diameter to figure out if a car would fit in it.

I'm thinking the car was meant to go in to the hole . I think that's where the "didn't go as planned " comes from. They didn't have enough time , or someone drove by and spooked the plan,

 

[PommyMommy]

APR 19, 2024

Court docs: Suspect charged in Kansas moms murders told investigators she's responsible for deaths

Court documents say a woman accused in the murder of two Kansas women whose bodies were found in the Oklahoma Panhandle gave a statement saying she was responsible for the deaths.

www.koco.com

The documents also say there were multiple other attempts to murder Butler in Oklahoma and Kansas.

According to the court documents, Adams and her boyfriend, Tad Cullum, have a violent history. They say the two have made "death threats and intimidation against individuals who disagree with their ideas."

 

[Cool Cats]

All I've heard is that it was 10' deep. We'd need to know the diameter to figure out if a car would fit in it.

Just for the bodies not the car I believe. It needed to be very deep because these killers planned to lure, yes lure, a bunch of cows onto the grave site.

They put hay all over the site to entice nearby cows to "Come and get it" so the dug up area would look less suspicious.

2 Cents

 

[Artis]

The Oklahoma Indigent Defense System has a special division of public defenders who work on capital cases. If the death penalty is sought, Cora will most likely not be represented by any ol' PD from Texas County. She's probably going to get a highly skilled and experienced PD brought in from Norman or Tulsa. If she doesn't get an attorney from the OIDS capital crime division, OIDS will hire a private attorney for her who has met certain requirements for defending death penalty cases.

IMO, Cora will be not be at a legal disadvantage with an OIDS capital crime PD. On the other hand, the other three will need to cough up BIG $$$$ retainers and pay big bills to get well-qualifed attorneys to drive 5-6 hours out to the middle of nowhere to represent them.

I hope the lawyers don't end up getting paid with land because I want to see these scumbags sued for everything they own by Veronica's and Jilian's families.

 

[Gae]

APR 19, 2024

Document: Grandmother admits to role in murder of 2 women found dead in Texas County

A grandmother admitted to her role in the murder of two women found dead in Texas County, Oklahoma.According to the motion to hold Tifany Adams without bail, af

abc7amarillo.com

[...]

According to prosecutors, they first drove to Hugoton, Kansas and tried to lure Butler out of her house so they could throw an anvil through her windshield while she drove down the road.

When that failed, Adams bought burner phones and tasers and plotted to kidnap and kill the victims.



[...]

As @charmingbetsy posted earlier today-
"The TA affidavit I saw said the burners were purchased Feb. 13 from Walmart and the stun guns were purchased March 23. The affidavit is really vague as to when the burners were turned on -- it says "prior to March 30."

 

[agilbe]

All I've heard is that it was 10' deep. We'd need to know the diameter to figure out if a car would fit in it.

I wonder if that's one of the things that didn't go as planned. The wanted to bury the car but for whatever reason couldn't. Seems like if they were able to get the hole 10 ft deep it would have been just as easy to make it wide enough. JMO

 

[Artis]

I agree on Cora . Defiance.
But it is quite interesting how we all see the 4 sooo differently
I actually 'see' TA as exhausted, and glad the first part is over. But expect her to rally like a lion in the future.

To be fair, even to these dirtbags, I don't think too many people look good in mugshots. Hell, I look bad on my driver's license, lol. Then there are who look just fine in mugshots, like Chris Watts or Lori Vallow. Book/cover and all that.

 

[SteveP]

All I've heard is that it was 10' deep. We'd need to know the diameter to figure out if a car would fit in it.

I wonder if that's one of the things that didn't go as planned. The wanted to bury the car but for whatever reason couldn't. Seems like if they were able to get the hole 10 ft deep it would have been just as easy to make it wide enough. JMO

I believe the hole likely was big enough to bury the car in, and was intended to be used as such. The hole was dug using a skid steer, which for those unfamiliar with the machine, is very capable of digging such a hole. Also, in the video of Brian Entin at the site of the burial, although it is dark, and you cannot get a good sense of the size of the hole, the hill of hay that was used to cover the dirt appears to be far more than would have been needed just to cover a hole only big enough to bury two bodies just thrown in. JMO

Kansas moms killing: Neighbor says ‘We’re not cultists, demons’

A local man who saw police find the two Kansas moms’ bodies knew both victims and the suspects being questioned in the murder investigation.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[ClearAhead]

APR 19, 2024

Document: Grandmother admits to role in murder of 2 women found dead in Texas County

A grandmother admitted to her role in the murder of two women found dead in Texas County, Oklahoma.According to the motion to hold Tifany Adams without bail, af

abc7amarillo.com

[...]

According to prosecutors, they first drove to Hugoton, Kansas and tried to lure Butler out of her house so they could throw an anvil through her windshield while she drove down the road.

When that failed, Adams bought burner phones and tasers and plotted to kidnap and kill the victims.

The grandmother of Wrangler Rickman, the children's father, said Rickman told her they wouldn't have to worry about the custody battle much longer because Adams had it under control. He said Adams “knew the path the Judge walked to work" and would "take out Veronica at drop off."

[...]

Okay so what grandma claimed WR was aware of wasn’t just an isolated incident. Although she makes him look bad, it seems he did try to do the right thing but nobody cared.

Kansas women killings: Court documents detail alleged murder-kidnapping motive

Texas County Sheriff’s Department (NEW YORK) — In the wake of the disappearance and killing of two women from Kansas, newly released court documents detail, according to prosecutors, the motive and evidence behind the alleged murder-kidnapping. On

www.ksro.com

Previous child custody case recordings were obtained by investigators, in which Rickman allegedly discussed death threats made by his mother and her boyfriend, fellow suspect Tad Cullum, with legal representatives.

 

[ClearAhead]

I'm thinking the car was meant to go in to the hole . I think that's where the "didn't go as planned " comes from. They didn't have enough time , or someone drove by and spooked the plan,

Yes if they had an actual plan, given TA claimed VB had called at 9am and cancelled the plan to pick up the children at 10am, surely that plan didn’t intend for the Kia to be found abandoned near the prearranged pick up spot. That was a bright red flag TA was lying about that phonecall, as both VB and JK’s families could also confirm. IMO the Kia needed to disappear and down a 10’ hole a very likely place.

 

[Bree1950]

Maybe PG welded the hammer that was found broken near the victim's car. Assuming the victims were still alive during the 8+ mile transport to the burial site - he likely was not the direct cause of either death. Realizing he might otherwise be included among those who actually inflicted the fatal blows - he had a revealing conversation with LE.

I feel they would have charged him with assault! I’m beginning to think he didn’t show up.

Having a burner phone does not mean you committed a murder. It can mean the phone was in one place, but it doesn't mean that the person with the phone directly caused the death(s). All 3 phones could have been in a shopping bag in a vehicle or even were passed around from one defendant to the next.

The DNA evidence may be limited, and it appears there won't be ballistic evidence from the bodies.i

 

[Bree1950]

I believe, based on the alleged size of the predug hole, the plan had been for the car to be buried along with the two victims. Perhaps PG was intended to be that driver, at some point. JMO

And if they had been able to bury the car, I doubt they would have ever been found!

 

[ClearAhead]

I’m curious if all four were assigned court-appointed attorneys because what’s reported is contrary to earlier reports of only Cora….which began in-depth discussion of their marital status and if her husband was financially abandoning her.

Bodies of 2 murdered Kansas moms were buried on land leased by suspect, court documents say

All four suspects are accused of plotting the victims' deaths amid a bitter custody battle, according to court documents.

abc30.com

“All four suspects were assigned court-appointed attorneys with the Oklahoma Indigent Defense System, and the agency's policy is not to speak to the press regarding pending cases, according to Charles Laughlin, the agency's executive director.”

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/17/us/missing-oklahoma-women-court/index.html

“All four suspects were assigned court-appointed attorneys with the Oklahoma Indigent Defense System, and the agency’s policy is not to speak to the press regarding pending cases, according to Charles Laughlin, the agency’s executive director.”

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

Was Julian’s family in attendance at the first appearance? I didn’t see any videos that referenced them.

 

[Knox]

Yes if they had an actual plan, given TA claimed VB had called at 9am and cancelled the plan to pick up the children at 10am, surely that plan didn’t intend for the Kia to be found abandoned near the prearranged pick up spot. That was a bright red flag TA was lying about that phonecall, as both VB and JK’s families could also confirm. IMO the Kia needed to disappear and down a 10’ hole a very likely place.

Makes complete sense in conjunction with her lie to investigator's. What model was the Kia?

 

[KariKae]

Yes if they had an actual plan, given TA claimed VB had called at 9am and cancelled the plan to pick up the children at 10am, surely that plan didn’t intend for the Kia to be found abandoned near the prearranged pick up spot. That was a bright red flag TA was lying about that phonecall, as both VB and JK’s families could also confirm. IMO the Kia needed to disappear and down a 10’ hole a very likely place.

You know that's a good point. I wonder if the key fob somehow got lost (or thrown) in the struggle and they were not able to drive the car?

 

[simlyme]

I’m curious if all four were assigned court-appointed attorneys because what’s reported is contrary to earlier reports of only Cora….which began in-depth discussion of their marital status and if her husband was financially abandoning her.

Bodies of 2 murdered Kansas moms were buried on land leased by suspect, court documents say

All four suspects are accused of plotting the victims' deaths amid a bitter custody battle, according to court documents.

abc30.com

“All four suspects were assigned court-appointed attorneys with the Oklahoma Indigent Defense System, and the agency's policy is not to speak to the press regarding pending cases, according to Charles Laughlin, the agency's executive director.”

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/17/us/missing-oklahoma-women-court/index.html

“All four suspects were assigned court-appointed attorneys with the Oklahoma Indigent Defense System, and the agency’s policy is not to speak to the press regarding pending cases, according to Charles Laughlin, the agency’s executive director.”

I think they were assigned court-appointed attorneys only for the 1st appearance , and then given the chance to either get their own attorneys or take appointed ones. Cora was the only one that said she wanted appointed one, 3 others want their own.
That's what I remember reading after the first appearance.