Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #5 *Arrests*

[SteveP]

Stock trailers typically used for cattle won’t have a divider going lengthwise down the middle. They will instead have partitions (close like gates) that can be left open. I’ve included a pic of a standard cattle trailer. Horse trailers will have dividers you speak of, but typically not cattle haulers. Hope this helps
MOO

The more I think about it, the more inclined I am to believe that the trailer was never meant to haul the car, (not even sure that it could), but was used to block the road, primarily, and perhaps to haul the victims to the burial location. I don't know why the flatbed was taken to the site, other than possibly to load the car onto, maybe as a back-up option, but I also think it would take far more time, and potentially attract far more attention being hauled on the back of a maybe-recognized flatbed than it would be just being driven by someone (perhaps the fifth person?) to the location of the pre-dug hole.. Perhaps part of the "mission" that "didn't go as planned" was the window and perhaps windshield being broken out of the Kia, from either a hammer blow or a gunshot, making visibility such that it was not safe to drive to the location. Clearly, LE had interest in hauling the trailer away, so they apparently expected to find evidence in it, but we can only guess what that evidence may have been. I am also curious as to whether or not the flatbed may have been taken, as well. JMO

 

[CuriousCricket]

Alot of domestic violence murders have occurred after restraining orders. Never stops the evil of these guys....Usually guys....2 Cents (If I can't have her no one can)

AND "How dare she think she can tell me what to do?" Never mind, he thinks he's entitled to smack her around, abuse her and destroy her life, but "how dare she?"

 

[MyBelle]

Alot of domestic violence murders have occurred after restraining orders. Never stops the evil of these guys....Usually guys....2 Cents (If I can't have her no one can)

This case involves a toxic,<modsnnip - diagnosing> mother who spent five years demanding total control over the parents of her grandchildren as well as the grandchildren. The fact that she claims to be religious but anti-government is a reflection of her incredible hypocrisy as well as the hypocrisy of the Judge who was present when the four suspects were arrested by the SWAT team.

JMO

Judge forced to resign after NewsNation interview about Kansas moms

Forbes revealed that he had been in regular contact with Cullum and was even present at his residence during the police raid.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[Ksfarmer8]

The more I think about it, the more inclined I am to believe that the trailer was never meant to haul the car, (not even sure that it could), but was used to block the road, primarily, and perhaps to haul the victims to the burial location. I don't know why the flatbed was taken to the site, other than possibly to load the car onto, maybe as a back-up option, but I also think it would take far more time, and potentially attract far more attention being hauled on the back of a maybe-recognized flatbed than it would be just being driven by someone (perhaps the fifth person?) to the location of the pre-dug hole.. Perhaps part of the "mission" that "didn't go as planned" was the window and perhaps windshield being broken out of the Kia, from either a hammer blow or a gunshot, making visibility such that it was not safe to drive to the location. Clearly, LE had interest in hauling the trailer away, so they apparently expected to find evidence in it, but we can only guess what that evidence may have been. I am also curious as to whether or not the flatbed may have been taken, as well. JMO

I agree the trailer was never intended to haul the car. IMO the flatbed mentioned is a bale hauler and never intended to haul a car. In a farming community, a car on a flatbed would stick out like a sore thumb from quite a distance and would be recognized as abnormal as you stated. IMO as you stated the car could probably not be driven because of the broken window(s).

 

[KooshBall]

Not to defend TA, but if her son was using drugs, then keeping the kids away from him would be the correct thing to do. Everyone is assuming she kept them for selfish reasons but we can't possibly know that. We do know her son has had issues with the law and substance abuse. This could be why the officer said the kids were better off with Grandma then Dad.

 

[PommyMommy]

APR 22, 2024

Suspects in mom deaths will pay ultimate price: Bounty hunter

Dog the Bounty Hunter is happy the suspects in the killings of two women live in a death penalty state.

www.newsnationnow.com

The suspects in the deaths of two Kansas women allegedly belonged to an anti-government religious group called “God’s Misfits.” America’s most famous bounty hunter says a more appropriate title would be “The Devil’s Herd.”

Duane Chapman, aka Dog the Bounty Hunter, tells NewsNation’s “On Balance” that, in his opinion, the deaths of Jilian Kelley and Veronica Butler were “absolutely premeditated murder.”

However, Chapman says one saving grace is that the alleged murders took place in Oklahoma, which has the highest per capita execution rate in the U.S.

[...]

Oklahoma began attempting to clear its backlog of 43 death row prisoners three years ago. Since then, 12 have been put to death. The most recent was Michael Smith on April 4.

[...]

 

[MyBelle]

Not to defend TA, but if her son was using drugs, then keeping the kids away from him would be the correct thing to do. Everyone is assuming she kept them for selfish reasons but we can't possibly know that. We do know her son has had issues with the law and substance abuse. This could be why the officer said the kids were better off with Grandma then Dad.

I think it was more likely that her son was arrested for drugs and the court gave him the choice of rehab or jail.
As for the police officer, the son was the father legal guardian of the children. The officer needs better training in child custody issues and the law.

JMO

Adams, 54, often seems to have had physical custody of her grandchildren, though her son Wrangler Rickman is their father and legal guardian. At the time Butler and Kelley went missing, Rickman was confirmed to be in a rehabilitation facility in Oklahoma City, officials said.

Adams, the court papers said, at times refused to let her son have his children. On one occasion when that happened, law enforcement was called.

https://www.kake.com/story/50696940/accused-of-double-murder-the-grandmother-her-boyfriend-and-the-couple-who-hosted-antigovernment-religious-meetings

 

[Warwick7]

I agree the trailer was never intended to haul the car. IMO the flatbed mentioned is a bale hauler and never intended to haul a car. In a farming community, a car on a flatbed would stick out like a sore thumb from quite a distance and would be recognized as abnormal as you stated. IMO as you stated the car could probably not be driven because of the broken window(s).

BBM
And weren't bales covering where they were buried 10ft down?

 

[Ksfarmer8]

BBM
And weren't bales covering where they were buried 10ft down?

According to News Nation it was loose hay that the cattle would eat and trample down the ground hiding the dirtwork.
location of the burial hole was 36.739558 Degrees N and 102.003854 degrees W or (-)

 

[Warwick7]

Ok....we know Adam's had the kids go to a sleep over the night before their Mom was allegedly going to pick them up.

What I didnt realize was Adams had left the grandchildren at the home of another 'God's Misfits' couple that hosted meetings the night before the killings.
Maybe someone else caught that, but I hadn't.

Inside the bloody ambush of two Kansas moms by 'religious gang'

The member of the religious gang who murdered two Kansas mothers had already tried to kill her daughter-in-law once before and planned out her killing this time around.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Warwick7]

According to News Nation it was loose hay that the cattle would eat and trample down the ground hiding the dirtwork.
location of the burial hole was 36.739558 Degrees N and 102.003854 degrees W or (-)

Interesting....
Thank you for that tid bit.
It seems super organized....yet half hazzard.

 

[Warwick7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782538536366768482

 

[Herat]

According to News Nation it was loose hay that the cattle would eat and trample down the ground hiding the dirtwork.
location of the burial hole was 36.739558 Degrees N and 102.003854 degrees W or (-)

Wow. That is less than 400 ft from the house on that property.

 

[Warwick7]

Ok....we know Adam's had the kids go to a sleep over the night before their Mom was allegedly going to pick them up.

What I didnt realize was Adams had left the grandchildren at the home of another 'God's Misfits' couple that hosted meetings the night before the killings.
Maybe someone else caught that, but I hadn't.

Inside the bloody ambush of two Kansas moms by 'religious gang'

The member of the religious gang who murdered two Kansas mothers had already tried to kill her daughter-in-law once before and planned out her killing this time around.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Ok....so did the children EVEN know their mother was coming for a visit???

My guess: NO.....

 

[KooshBall]

I think it was more likely that her son was arrested for drugs and the court gave him the choice of rehab or jail.
As for the police officer, the son was the father legal guardian of the children. The officer needs better training in child custody issues and the law.

JMO

Adams, 54, often seems to have had physical custody of her grandchildren, though her son Wrangler Rickman is their father and legal guardian. At the time Butler and Kelley went missing, Rickman was confirmed to be in a rehabilitation facility in Oklahoma City, officials said.

Adams, the court papers said, at times refused to let her son have his children. On one occasion when that happened, law enforcement was called.

https://www.kake.com/story/50696940/accused-of-double-murder-the-grandmother-her-boyfriend-and-the-couple-who-hosted-antigovernment-religious-meetings

I wasn't commenting on his court ordered rehab. I was adding to the ongoing discussion that has been going on since the very first thread, concerning some of the child custody documents stating that TA was keeping the kids from her son before his recent arrest. Imo it could have been for legitimate reasons.

 

[BuySellTrade]

My hunch is, this group called themselves that, without even having any idea this guy has a site called the same thing.
They most certainly do not hold to the same things, politically or religiously.

jmo

Watched a video clip at WS that was an interview with "Squirrel" of God's Misfits internet site. Squirrell said there was no connection with the group in Oklahoma. Said that the arrested murderers had stolen the logo on his web site for their use.

 

[Bogbacal2]

Here's an interesting thought exercise.

Between Jan. 1 and the time of this post, there have been 79 criminal felony filings in Texas County.

Out of these 79, five cases seem to be missing from online records. Only one missing case was filed in January (CF-2023-4).

The other four would have been filed at some point between April 8-9 (-65), April 9-10 (-67), April 10-12 (-69), and on either April 19 or 22 (-77).

Interesting that there seem to be four filings that can't be located since this case began. As you may recall, the arrest warrants for the four (Nos. -70-73) remained under seal until they were arrested. Out of the 74 available records, only TA, TC, and the two Twombly cases have notes that they were initially filed under seal.

4 filings that can’t be located….now my wheels are spinning!

 

[Artis]

Not to defend TA, but if her son was using drugs, then keeping the kids away from him would be the correct thing to do. Everyone is assuming she kept them for selfish reasons but we can't possibly know that. We do know her son has had issues with the law and substance abuse. This could be why the officer said the kids were better off with Grandma then Dad.

<modsnip: not victim friendly> He's the one who got custody and left the kids with his mother. I can fully understand that she wouldn't want him picking them and going off <modsnip> with them. At the same time, she was actively working to get custody of them, herself, and keep them from their mother. Tifany acted like those kids were hers and murdered their mother so she could keep them.

 

[Bree1950]

Wow. That is less than 400 ft from the house on that property.

Can anyone post a satellite pic from Google maps. I can’t get my phone to search for coordinates

 

[Bree1950]

Can anyone post a satellite pic from Google maps. I can’t get my phone to search for coordinates

Never mind! My grandson is visiting and he was able to have my phone find it! WOW! I feel if they had not thrown those burner phones in to the burial site they may never have been found! Did someone throw them in hoping they would be found like PG maybe? I can’t believe how well they planned this out and Google searched so much, that they did not Google the ability to track burner phones!!