Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #5 *Arrests*

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VB attacked in her car by TC and put up a good fight, leaving numerous facial scratches from her fingernails which he tried to cover by growing out his previously trimmed beard.

How terrified these poor ladies must have been trying to defend themselves from this pure evil.
Thank goodness they aren’t letting these four demons bond out!
 
Not to defend TA, but if her son was using drugs, then keeping the kids away from him would be the correct thing to do. Everyone is assuming she kept them for selfish reasons but we can't possibly know that. We do know her son has had issues with the law and substance abuse. This could be why the officer said the kids were better off with Grandma then Dad.
Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. In no way do I condone TA and the rest of them killing two women. Not at all - but for right now, IMO, her original intent was to protect them from a drug addicted father and the situation TA's lawyer revealed. So TA lets this concern for the kids' safety foment until it gets so far out of hand she's ready to kill.
As we know, there are a heck of a lot of grandparents out there raising their grandkids right now and it's not because they're selfish and on a power trip. They're getting old and don't want to have to raise another family. They do it because both parents are unfit and there's no other choice than to protect them from their parents and raise the grandkids. There are several Facebook support groups for grandparents who were raising grandkids because both parents were unfit to do so. These groups have grown exponentially over the last few years - and are full of worn out grandparents who are raising grandkids and needing support. They aren't doing it for selfish reasons. Again - IMO, TA let this eat her up to the point of being ready to kill anyone and everyone she thought got in the way of her grandkids' safety. I think this is why she so readily took responsibility for the murders. Quite often, I see people on social media claiming, "If someone did that to my kid, or allowed it to happen to my kid, they wouldn't live long enough to see prison!" - when they hear of a child being terribly neglected and abused. Apparently, TA had the same mindset but actually followed through and brought others with her to carry it out. IMO, she won't show remorse because she believed she was saving her grandkids from neglect and abuse. IMO, she'll show resignation - knowing she'll spend the rest of her life in prison - but in her mind, she's justified killing two people.
 
New details per above-
VB attacked in her car by TC and put up a good fight, leaving numerous facial scratches from her fingernails which he tried to cover by growing out his previously trimmed beard.

From link:

A source close to the investigation told NewsNation’s “Banfield” that Butler, the mother of Adams’ grandchildren, fiercely fought back against her attacker while still inside the car before being killed.

Her alleged assailant, Cullum, was found with crescent-moon-shaped scratches on his face resembling fingernail marks when arrested. The source said Cullum grew his beard longer in an attempt to cover up the scratches after previously keeping it well-trimmed.

With all the earlier talk of how homely the mugshots were, I’m certain earlier Facebookish, perhaps lightly face-tuned photos of the happy Adams/Cullum couple were circulated. The one I remember shows the latter with a full beard, sans the ZZTop length in police custody. What could the scraggle conceal that the original wouldn’t? All it’s done is aged him, far as I can tell.

I wonder what source would both know which victim would be responsible for these “scratches” and be privy to Callum’s reasons for not trimming his facial hair of late. I get that fingernail scrapings could substantiate that, but would DNA results from VB’s body already be in?
 

New details per above-
VB attacked in her car by TC and put up a good fight, leaving numerous facial scratches from her fingernails which he tried to cover by growing out his previously trimmed beard.

How terrified these poor ladies must have been trying to defend themselves from this pure evil.
Thank goodness they aren’t letting these four demons bond out!
OK, IMO, that source is exaggerating.
"The source said Cullum grew his beard longer in an attempt to cover up the scratches after previously keeping it well-trimmed."
He probably did have wounds on his face, but to say he grew out his beard to hide the scratches is weird because his beard is extremely long. Beard hair grows 1/2" per month. So in two weeks, he went from a well trimmed beard to a long beard to hide the scratches? IMO, his already long scraggly beard hid some of the scratches. Minor point, but claiming he grew out that extremely long beard in two weeks to hide scratches is a little hyperbolic.
 

New details per above-
VB attacked in her car by TC and put up a good fight, leaving numerous facial scratches from her fingernails which he tried to cover by growing out his previously trimmed beard.

How terrified these poor ladies must have been trying to defend themselves from this pure evil.
Thank goodness they aren’t letting these four demons bond out!
Marie, thank you for sharing the link.
 
From link:



With all the earlier talk of how homely the mugshots were, I’m certain earlier Facebookish, perhaps lightly face-tuned photos of the happy Adams/Cullum couple were circulated. The one I remember shows the latter with a full beard, sans the ZZTop length in police custody. What could the scraggle conceal that the original wouldn’t? All it’s done is aged him, far as I can tell.

I wonder what source would both know which victim would be responsible for these “scratches” and be privy to Callum’s reasons for not trimming his facial hair of late. I get that fingernail scrapings could substantiate that, but would DNA results from VB’s body already be in?
I am sure with both OSBI and the FBI working the case, getting DNA results back quickly became a high priority., so yes, I would expect that fingernail clippings probably substantiated what one of the other suspects likely told investigators. Otherwise, I am not sure how they could have determined that VB was still in the car when it happened. I bet once TA admitted "responsibility", ummm you mean "guilt", any all for one and one for all, among the misfits, flew out the window. My guess is that the CT's are throwing TA and TC under the bus every time one of their lips move, and if he is talking at all, I am sure TC is probably throwing it back at them, as I think he may still try to protect TA. JMO
 
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Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. In no way do I condone TA and the rest of them killing two women. Not at all - but for right now, IMO, her original intent was to protect them from a drug addicted father and the situation TA's lawyer revealed. So TA lets this concern for the kids' safety foment until it gets so far out of hand she's ready to kill.
As we know, there are a heck of a lot of grandparents out there raising their grandkids right now and it's not because they're selfish and on a power trip. They're getting old and don't want to have to raise another family. They do it because both parents are unfit and there's no other choice than to protect them from their parents and raise the grandkids. There are several Facebook support groups for grandparents who were raising grandkids because both parents were unfit to do so. These groups have grown exponentially over the last few years - and are full of worn out grandparents who are raising grandkids and needing support. They aren't doing it for selfish reasons. Again - IMO, TA let this eat her up to the point of being ready to kill anyone and everyone she thought got in the way of her grandkids' safety. I think this is why she so readily took responsibility for the murders. Quite often, I see people on social media claiming, "If someone did that to my kid, or allowed it to happen to my kid, they wouldn't live long enough to see prison!" - when they hear of a child being terribly neglected and abused. Apparently, TA had the same mindset but actually followed through and brought others with her to carry it out. IMO, she won't show remorse because she believed she was saving her grandkids from neglect and abuse. IMO, she'll show resignation - knowing she'll spend the rest of her life in prison - but in her mind, she's justified killing two people.
Somehow TA believed she was still part of the 1800s lawless Panhandle. It seems likely she wasn't the only one. That's a tight knit area. Would be interesting to hear from uninvolved neighbors, assuming there are such.
 
Not to defend TA, but if her son was using drugs, then keeping the kids away from him would be the correct thing to do. Everyone is assuming she kept them for selfish reasons but we can't possibly know that. We do know her son has had issues with the law and substance abuse. This could be why the officer said the kids were better off with Grandma then Dad.
I have been thinking this too. I think it’s possible that he was intoxicated and angry when police were called and that is why they said the kids would be better to stay with his mother. This was likely meant in the context of that day/night and not meaning the children were better off with her always. Of course, I have no way of knowing this but have thought it. IMO.
 
Oh, ok, thanks for pointing that out.
Maybe a misinterpretation by me ?
I was under the impression that a restraining order and protection order are the same legal term ?
Imo.


Was the P.O. in actuality a protection order from Tifany Adams and necessarily WR ?


That is very tragically true.
We see it over and over again in these cases.
Omo.
So very sadly true. I worked as an Evidence Specialist and have cases that still haunt me where a PO was in place, but it didn't stop the abuser from murdering them. The justice system is extremely broken where violence is concerned.
 
OK, IMO, that source is exaggerating.
"The source said Cullum grew his beard longer in an attempt to cover up the scratches after previously keeping it well-trimmed."
He probably did have wounds on his face, but to say he grew out his beard to hide the scratches is weird because his beard is extremely long. Beard hair grows 1/2" per month. So in two weeks, he went from a well trimmed beard to a long beard to hide the scratches? IMO, his already long scraggly beard hid some of the scratches. Minor point, but claiming he grew out that extremely long beard in two weeks to hide scratches is a little hyperbolic.
I thought the same thing...like what in the ZZ Top is this person talking about? That thing's been on his face for awhile.
 
I thought the same thing...like what in the ZZ Top is this person talking about? That thing's been on his face for awhile.
As you stated, that thing didn't grow in two weeks. The bulk of the mess (I have trouble even calling that a beard) below his chin clearly isn't covering scratches, but it is possible that he let those unruly sideburns get thicker and wider, and his mustache thicker, in an attempt to cover up more of his face. Too bad she wasn't able to claw his eyes out, and good thing, for him, she didn't scratch him on top of his head, because nothing but a hat would cover that up. JMO

nypost.com/2024/04/14/us-news/4-arrested-in-connection-to-disappearance-of-two-kansas-moms-osbi/
 
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Googling for Tech Info
Never mind! My grandson is visiting and he was able to have my phone find it!....
WOW! I feel if they had not thrown those burner phones in to the burial site they may never have been found!....
I can’t believe how well they planned this out and Google searched so much, that they did not Google the ability to track burner phones!!
snipped for focus @Bree1950
Yes, I wonder if TA searched online about LE's ability to track cell phone locations, etc. If she did, maybe she made a ->

BOO BOO in relying on result that was 25+ YEARS OLD?!? :)

BTW, my tablet & cell phone both have a few bugs. After your gr'son finishes fulfilling your tech requests, I'd be forever grateful if you would pls send him my way. ;)
 
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New details per above-
VB attacked in her car by TC and put up a good fight, leaving numerous facial scratches from her fingernails which he tried to cover by growing out his previously trimmed beard.

How terrified these poor ladies must have been trying to defend themselves from this pure evil.
Thank goodness they aren’t letting these four demons bond out!
I heard that about him growing out his beard, on NN, last night. That's just crazy. Nobody grows out a beard that long in two weeks. I can't imagine how anyone came up with that. I don't doubt the part about the scratches on his face, though.
 
I thought the same thing...like what in the ZZ Top is this person talking about? That thing's been on his face for awhile.
I feel they meant to say he quit shaving in an effort to cover scratches further up face and possibly neck area. This means VB’s fingernails will detect his DNA if it was in fact him. Someone is talking for this information to be known.
 
Googling for Tech Info

snipped for focus @Bree1950
Yes, I wonder if TA searched online about LE's ability to track cell phone locations, etc. If she did, maybe she made a ->

BOO BOO in relying on result that was 25+ YEARS OLD?!? :)

BTW, my tablet & cell phone both have a few bugs. After your gr'son finishes fulfilling your tech requests, I'd be forever grateful if you would pls send him my way. ;)
Ha!! Yes, I use him all the time!
 
Murdered Kansas Moms: Some Questions Answered...Many More Remain
<modsnip: quoted post was removed>
Suspect we will start to hear a bit more about the main characters with the Misfits behind bars. Though the Case of the Missing Witness may not be resolved before trial.
 
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