Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #5 *Arrests*

[Cool Cats]

Have appreciated some of BE's reporting in the past, but it does seem at times now that he's auditioning for a dramumentry streaming series about himself. "The BE Diaries -- 10 (sic) Years on True Crime Ground Zero..."

Suspect we will start to hear a bit more about the main characters with the Misfits behind bars. Though the Case of the Missing Witness may not be resolved before trial.

Missing witness?

 

[KooshBall]

[/QUOTE]

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. In no way do I condone TA and the rest of them killing two women. Not at all - but for right now, IMO, her original intent was to protect them from a drug addicted father and the situation TA's lawyer revealed. So TA lets this concern for the kids' safety foment until it gets so far out of hand she's ready to kill.
As we know, there are a heck of a lot of grandparents out there raising their grandkids right now and it's not because they're selfish and on a power trip. They're getting old and don't want to have to raise another family. They do it because both parents are unfit and there's no other choice than to protect them from their parents and raise the grandkids. There are several Facebook support groups for grandparents who were raising grandkids because both parents were unfit to do so. These groups have grown exponentially over the last few years - and are full of worn out grandparents who are raising grandkids and needing support. They aren't doing it for selfish reasons. Again - IMO, TA let this eat her up to the point of being ready to kill anyone and everyone she thought got in the way of her grandkids' safety. I think this is why she so readily took responsibility for the murders. Quite often, I see people on social media claiming, "If someone did that to my kid, or allowed it to happen to my kid, they wouldn't live long enough to see prison!" - when they hear of a child being terribly neglected and abused. Apparently, TA had the same mindset but actually followed through and brought others with her to carry it out. IMO, she won't show remorse because she believed she was saving her grandkids from neglect and abuse. IMO, she'll show resignation - knowing she'll spend the rest of her life in prison - but in her mind, she's justified killing two people.

Thank you this is what I was trying to say. I feel like she started off doing the right thing to protect the kids and ended up going off the deep end over it.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Somehow TA believed she was still part of the 1800s lawless Panhandle. It seems likely she wasn't the only one. That's a tight knit area. Would be interesting to hear from uninvolved neighbors, assuming there are such.

Yes, and from what we have seen disclosed thus far, IMO neither TA nor the son really seemed qualified to be raising children (or grandchildren). If the son had grown under her ‘tutelage’ one can only imagine how that went.

To what extent either or both of them inflicted torment on VB over custody is even worse and perhaps more will be disclosed. It does seem that TA and crew were willing to go ‘scorched earth’ no matter the outcome. I better stop here.

Poor unfortunate VB and JK. MOO

 

[x_files]

I think you're correct. I'm not clear about it, but normally custody issues are between parents...
JMO

It should but sounds like grandma but in, uninvited.

 

[ClearAhead]

It should but sounds like grandma but in, uninvited.

I’d bet TA intentionally caused conflict between V and W, back when they first became parents, especially if V stood up to her meddling. TA reminds me of the sort of person that masterminds situations so craziness is happening all around her, then swoops in as if she’s the only one who can make it all better. JMO

 

[Seattle1]

I don't know what all documents that are still sealed and one of the two is referenced but there are several articles I can link that do talk about him representing Tifany for a custody battle. I never included a link so in case I do it incorrectly:

Attorneys in custody battle between missing woman, suspected killer speak out: Attorneys in custody battle between missing woman, suspected killer speak out

From memory, I can say that Stephen Jones representation of TA as intervenor was short lived.

WR's big name family law lawyer withdrew around November 2023 and that's when TA put her foot in the door as intervenor, and hired criminal defense lawyer Stephen Jones.

We know that Jones was gone by March 2024 and that's in part why VB's Motions hearing was continued to April 17, 2024 (i.e., to give TA time to hire a new lawyer).

I don't think Jones ever made a Court appearance on the matter, and think Jones short duration is probably why he was comfortable talking to media.

MOO

ETA: Confirming stmts by reporter

 

[Seattle1]

Apr 22, 2024 #KansasMoms #VeronicaButler #JilianKelley
The bodies of Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley were found about 10 feet underground two weeks after the Kansas moms went missing March 30. NewsNation’s Brian Entin gives us an exclusive look at the pasture where the women’s bodies were located.

 

[Warwick7]

Somehow TA believed she was still part of the 1800s lawless Panhandle. It seems likely she wasn't the only one. That's a tight knit area. Would be interesting to hear from uninvolved neighbors, assuming there are such.

I agree. It was stated that Adams and Cullum have a history of violent interactions including death threats and intimidation … abide by their own philosophy and have no regard for the sanctity of human life. This aligns with rumors that the couple was feared in the community for their mean streak and perceived dangerousness.

Kansas moms suspects ‘knew the path’ judge took to work: Records

The four suspects jailed in the killings of two Kansas mothers are being kept apart from one another at the Texas County jail in Oklahoma.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[ClearAhead]

I’ve been wondering how a skid steer or even a bobcat could dig a 10’ hole since the blade is attached to a fairly short arm. Googling indicates it’s capable of digging 3 or 5 or 6 feet but not 10 feet. Maybe this has already been discussed and I missed it but it would appear that maybe TC had the ability to haul in and out other heavy equipment as well (excavator??) I’m also doubting a p/u flatbed or livestock trailer transported anything capable of digging a 10’ hole.

I think more information will be released with time but at the present there’s still a lot we don’t know.

 

[Warwick7]

"A source close to the investigation told NewsNation’s “Banfield” that Butler, the mother of Adams’ grandchildren, fiercely fought back against her attacker while still inside the car before being killed."

I'd like to know who this source is.
Also, Butler fought back. I hope she fought like a wild woman!!!

Kansas moms suspects ‘knew the path’ judge took to work: Records

The four suspects jailed in the killings of two Kansas mothers are being kept apart from one another at the Texas County jail in Oklahoma.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[Artis]

"A source close to the investigation told NewsNation’s “Banfield” that Butler, the mother of Adams’ grandchildren, fiercely fought back against her attacker while still inside the car before being killed."

I'd like to know who this source is.
Also, Butler fought back. I hope she fought like a wild woman!!!

Kansas moms suspects ‘knew the path’ judge took to work: Records

The four suspects jailed in the killings of two Kansas mothers are being kept apart from one another at the Texas County jail in Oklahoma.

www.newsnationnow.com

Take it with a grain salt because in the same this source said Tad grew his beard out to cover scratches on his face. he may have been scratched up but he didn't grow that beard in two weeks.

 

[unimog]

Don't know if this has been brought up before but there are a number of fabricators who offer flatbeds for common pickup models that feature a gooseneck hitch. This is the type of hitch required for TC's livestock trailer. The Twomblys could have swung by TC's place to grab the trailer on the way to the ambush location. Not sure if this would help or hinder all of the people here trying to present a plausible scenario for the movements of vehicles, perps, and phones. Just another data point.

 

[ajksmom]

I’ve been wondering how a skid steer or even a bobcat could dig a 10’ hole since the blade is attached to a fairly short arm. Googling indicates it’s capable of digging 3 or 5 or 6 feet but not 10 feet. Maybe this has already been discussed and I missed it but it would appear that maybe TC had the ability to haul in and out other heavy equipment as well (excavator??) I’m also doubting a p/u flatbed or livestock trailer transported anything capable of digging a 10’ hole.

I think more information will be released with time but at the present there’s still a lot we don’t know.

A skid steer/bobcat cannot dig ten feet deep just sitting stationery but can “ramp” the sides of holes to obtain that depth or more.

 

[MadMcGoo]

If someone is able to find a link to this video, please post it. Otherwise and until then, STOP discussing it.

 

[legomonster]

From memory, I can say that Stephen Jones representation of TA as intervenor was short lived.

WR's big name family law lawyer withdrew around November 2023 and that's when TA put her foot in the door as intervenor, and hired criminal defense lawyer Stephen Jones.

We know that Jones was gone by March 2024 and that's in part why VB's Motions hearing was continued to April 17, 2024 (i.e., to give TA time to hire a new lawyer).

I don't think Jones ever made a Court appearance on the matter, and think Jones short duration is probably why he was comfortable talking to media.

MOO

ETA: Confirming stmts by reporter

Yes, I'm kind of new here and didn't know if it was allowed to disclose info from sealed documents so that's why I added a link from a news source because there are several that list him as her attorney for custody then. But, at the time some that weren't as familiar with all the documents were associating it with past clients he represented when it really wasn't about that, but they wouldn't know bc again sealed and imo. I also think Jones didn't say a lot because again, his involvement is largely sealed unless those documents have been unsealed.

 

[Sundog]

Take it with a grain salt because in the same this source said Tad grew his beard out to cover scratches on his face. he may have been scratched up but he didn't grow that beard in two weeks.

I assume they meant that TC let his beard grow out in areas that he normally shaved and that they weren't referring to the length of the beard that he had already grown before the incident. He may have tried to let his beard grow out and not shave around his sideburns and cheeks in order to cover some of the scratches or abrasions.

 

[SteveP]

A skid steer/bobcat cannot dig ten feet deep just sitting stationery but can “ramp” the sides of holes to obtain that depth or more.

I agree, and for those who may be unfamiliar with what a skid steer actually looks like, and can do, here is a short video of a skid steer being used to dig a pretty substantial hole.

 

[airportwoman]

I agree. It was stated that Adams and Cullum have a history of violent interactions including death threats and intimidation … abide by their own philosophy and have no regard for the sanctity of human life. This aligns with rumors that the couple was feared in the community for their mean streak and perceived dangerousness.

Kansas moms suspects ‘knew the path’ judge took to work: Records

The four suspects jailed in the killings of two Kansas mothers are being kept apart from one another at the Texas County jail in Oklahoma.

www.newsnationnow.com

I have a feeling a lot of people are breathing easier now that these sorry excuses for people are off the streets.

 

[ClearAhead]

I agree, and for those who may be unfamiliar with what a skid steer actually looks like, and can do, here is a short video of a skid steer being used to dig a pretty substantial hole.

Thanks for posting this informative video! I see now how it could dig a 10’ hole.

 

[x_files]

I’d bet TA intentionally caused conflict between V and W, back when they first became parents, especially if V stood up to her meddling. TA reminds me of the sort of person that masterminds situations so craziness is happening all around her, then swoops in as if she’s the only one who can make it all better. JMO

"crazymakers"