Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #5 *Arrests*

[Muddy K]

Well, no it wasn't rehearsed well because there was blood on the roadway where Veronica's car was found, her broken glasses and they didn't anticipate Veronica's family to search for Veronica and Jilian and find the car abandoned so early imo. Sadly, they were probably going to incapacitate them quickly and quietly and kill them elsewhere but that didn't work out because Veronica fought back so much. Otherwise there wouldn't be so much evidence left at the car.

I agree with you, there were things this wretched cabal didn't rehearse or even think about. But, IMO, that's the thing about narcissists. Because they believe themselves to be the center of the known universe, they don't have to plan for contingencies.

That doesn't mean they hadn't jawed for days about how they would "Take Veronica out at drop off." I think the roles had been assigned, the actors had been equipped, the routes had been determined and tested, and the Kool-Aid of righteousness had been consumed by the gallons during their self-congratulatory motivational planning sessions in the run-up to the event.

 

[Universecalling]

“lured to the location of Highway 95 and Road L”…..so as another poster speculated earlier, rather than a false roadblock set up, perhaps the 9am phone call by TA was to suggest they meet at that location rather than Four Corners. VB’s high school was on Road L so she’d be familiar with it.

A roadblock would risk attracting unnecessary attention IMO.

PG’s PCA states that “CW was told that Cora and Cole blocked the road to stop Butler and Kelley and divert them to
where Adams, Cullum and Grice were. CW asked about Kelley and why she had to die and was told by Cora…”

 

[fcavanaugh]

You would think they'd keep their mouths shut.

RSBM.
You would, but not these perps. IMO they feel justified and are proud of what they’ve done aka completed their mission to eliminate TA’s problem. These evil murderers aka ‘Satan’s misfits’, are not only a bunch of idiots leaving a trail of evidence in their wake, they are sadists who imo got satisfaction and enjoyment from the planning, torture, and killing of 2 young women/Mothers. Sick twisted creatures who imo are not even human. They are sub-human, the worst of the worst kind of evil.

Bury them all under the jail for all I care. They deserve nothing less for thinking they were justified and had the right to end the lives of 2 beautiful, vibrant women and the collateral damage they caused to so many families and children including their own children as well as TA’s grandchildren.

My thoughts are with the families of Veronica and Jilian and all the children who will be scarred for life due to these selfish perps’ heinous actions. Tragic.

IMHO

ETA-a word

 

[Artis]

I wonder if Jilian's gun was recovered by LE.

Good question and I also wonder if she ever got a shot off.

 

[Artis]

That is a very good question.

Most of the other participants had no personal "stake" in the custody dispute. Yet, they are still willing to commit a double murder? Who commands such loyalty?

Though the principal defendant maybe relatively wealthy, I doubt the "double murder" loyalty was purchased in this case. In the end, I am thinking the "c" word as in......"cult". I don't like using the word as it can be misused to mean:

- Cult (n): If I dont like the religious group in question, then they are a cult.

But..... cults of personality and religious cults do exist. I am thinking that this might be both. But.... wow, what a hold!

IMHO, what I see with these people is more akin to a gang. I suppose you could call a gang a cult, too, but this five went out and murdered like they were MS13. I'm not seeing anything here like a religious motive or anti government. Just straight up violent homicidal maniacs. There have been a couple of vague references to them being intimidating or bullies and it will be interesting to see if we hear more about that. So far, all we've heard is from the judge who said Tad was a good guy and a friend, and from the guy who employed Grice who said he was also a good guy. Not too surprising, I guess. People liked Ted Bundy and Chris Watts, too.

 

[Artis]

I am sickened by the thought that their murders, or at least VB's, was intentionally NOT quick. I think that is why there were five stun guns purchased, and why TA googled the stun gun that delivered the most pain. JMO.

When this first was reported and they said a broken hammer was found by Veronica's glasses, I knew. Bludgeoning is like stabbing - more rage filled than shooting someone. It's mind blowing these five could have this much rage toward a young mother who wanted her children back and someone who didn't have anything to with the whole thing other than to supervise a visit. They're, obviously, all people who think nothing of extreme violence and get off on it. I also see a connection to the lifestyle and business they were all in which was the same as Patrick Frazee.

 

[Artis]

Morally, I think most agree -- yes. Legally, it's not a crime to remain silent.

Yup. IIRC, there were four people who knew Patrick Frazee said he was going to kill Kelsey Berreth and none did squat to stop it.

 

[Artis]

Now I'm baffled. Wasn't it a misdemeanor when Krystal Kenney didn't report Kelsey's death? I swore during those threads we talked about failing to report a violent crime or homicide was a misdemeanor. But, then again that was such a long time ago, I may not be thinking it right.

She was charged with tampering, I think. Cleaned up and disposed of evidence. Been a while and I don't remember but it wasn't for not reporting the murder.

 

[Sjöberg]

CW asked about Kelley and why she had to die

In addition to the families of Veronica and Jilian, I also think about cw and her brother often. I do hope she will be ok. Not only from the trauma of that event, but also from the whole lived experience of growing up in a household like this, as that can influence a young kid and their attitudes and worldview in so many ways, I hope she can distance herself from all that.

 

[Berrybell]

I agree with you, there were things this wretched cabal didn't rehearse or even think about. But, IMO, that's the thing about narcissists. Because they believe themselves to be the center of the known universe, they don't have to plan for contingencies.

That doesn't mean they hadn't jawed for days about how they would "Take Veronica out at drop off." I think the roles had been assigned, the actors had been equipped, the routes had been determined and tested, and the Kool-Aid of righteousness had been consumed by the gallons during their self-congratulatory motivational planning sessions in the run-up to the event.

My personal opinion, they thought they were on a "mission from God" and he would protect them.

 

[tezi]

Is that Ideology or Idiotology? We'll see how well that works out for them in their sovereign Oklahoma murder trials. My guess is not very well. JMO

I am going with the latter.

 

[SteveP]

My personal opinion, they thought they were on a "mission from God" and he would protect them.

That may be their story, but I'm pretty sure they knew that God didn't have any part in that. JMO

 

[investigatefred]

Ha! That sure as hell wouldn’t go over well with a jury.

I hope they don't try this in the same county...seems like a very tainted pool there. JMO

 

[Berrybell]

That may be their story, but I'm pretty sure they knew that God didn't have any part in that. JMO

They are not like normal people, I think that is why they told their daughter they were going a mission. They have twisted the bible, politics into their own personal benefits and ideas. MOO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Tifany Adams, who was involved in the custody dispute with Butler, is the current chair of the Cimarron County Republican Party, according to Oklahoma Republican Party Chairman Nathan Dahm. Cimarron County is the westernmost county at the tip of the Oklahoma Panhandle with a population of fewer than 2,300 people.

Dahm said officials at the state party did not know Adams. He said given how rural the county is, “it could have been three people who showed up at the county convention and elected her.”

Witnesses have given more names of people who may have been involved in the conspiracy indicating there could be more arrests in the days to come.

OSBI: A 5TH SUSPECT ARRESTED FOLLOWING THE DEATHS OF 2 WOMEN FOUND IN TEXAS COUNTY

Ponca City Now is your source for local area news, weather, sports, auctions, and more

www.poncacitynow.com

 

[kaen]

In addition to the families of Veronica and Jilian, I also think about cw and her brother often. I do hope she will be ok. Not only from the trauma of that event, but also from the whole lived experience of growing up in a household like this, as that can influence a young kid and their attitudes and worldview in so many ways, I hope she can distance herself from all that.

I think this young woman realized fairly quickly that if these people were willing to kill a woman who was a court mandated observer than nothing was off the table, including killing their children for making choices they did not like. And, they had this girl cleaning up blood evidence of their carnage. Cora must have thought she would obey and be quiet given their ideology. This reminds me of the Daybell murders where it would seem that the older daughter started to ask questions but was unable to get away from the monsters. This girl had good smarts to get to TX and out of Cora's reach. I have no doubt they would have done away with her once it became clear that she would talk.

This kind of terroristic group is frightening. To think that there are others in the group who might/would do their biding engenders fear in this community I am sure. It does make me think that there are lots of cells like this that exist which is terrifying to say the least. I am thinking OKC bombers and now these folks. Ughhhh!!!! JMHO.

 

[Berrybell]

I think this young woman realized fairly quickly that if these people were willing to kill a woman who was a court mandated observer than nothing was off the table, including killing their children for making choices they did not like. And, they had this girl cleaning up blood evidence of their carnage. Cora must have thought she would obey and be quiet given their ideology. This reminds me of the Daybell murders where it would seem that the older daughter started to ask questions but was unable to get away from the monsters. This girl had good smarts to get to TX and out of Cora's reach. I have no doubt they would have done away with her once it became clear that she would talk.

This kind of terroristic group is frightening. To think that there are others in the group who might/would do their biding engenders fear in this community I am sure. It does make me think that there are lots of cells like this that exist which is terrifying to say the least. I am thinking OKC bombers and now these folks. Ughhhh!!!! JMHO.

They remind of Fargo and Jon Hamm mentality.

 

[Cryptic]

IMHO, what I see with these people is more akin to a gang. I suppose you could call a gang a cult, too, but this five went out and murdered like they were MS13. I'm not seeing anything here like a religious motive or anti government. Just straight up violent homicidal maniacs.

I think you have an excellent point that that some gangs can function as secular cults based on either personality of the leader, or based on hype of the legends 'n lore of the gangs founding , including "daring" deeds of past members.

At the same time, however, Misfits may of acted like MS-13, but most do not appear to have criminal histories to speak of. Nor, does engagement in criminal activity seem to of been their primary occupations.

I am thinking that the primary motivation was a blurry mix of religious and political beliefs that God had ordained the matriarch as the true custodial parent. Thus, Court orders to the contrary would be "unconstitutional". Impending unconstitutional orders can be resisted violently.

I can also agree with you that there may of been a snowballing of violent tendencies amongst group members where they fed off each other when discussing what they were going to do. The murders are then actually performed- instead of just justified and muttered about.

In the end though, I dont think the murders occurred simply because the participants were all inherently violent (most do not appear to have past violent incidents). Rather, there was some kind of religious / political justification.

 

[x_files]

Oz is fiction. This case is about reality.

JMO

Where do you think they get stories from? Just curious...

 

[x_files]

That is a very good question.

Most of the other participants had no personal "stake" in the custody dispute. Yet, they are still willing to commit a double murder? Who commands such loyalty?

Though the principal defendant maybe relatively wealthy, I doubt the "double murder" loyalty was purchased in this case. In the end, I am thinking the "c" word as in......"cult". I don't like using the word as it can be misused to mean:

- Cult (n): If I dont like the religious group in question, then they are a cult.

But..... cults of personality and religious cults do exist. I am thinking that this might be both. But.... wow, what a hold!

a cult or Tiffany has dirt on them from previous crimes.
Thick as Thieves.