Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #5 *Arrests*

[anneoakley63]

It serves no legal purpose at all. The whole sovereign citizen thing is something that people who think they are smarter than they are invented to limit their liability to and with the government. The basis of it is that they believe the U.S. government has no jurisdiction over them through a twisted reading of U.S. treaties that deal with admiralty law and international law. If you know someone that believes this hocus pocus, please laugh at them for me.

Thank you for this well written explanation! If I meet anyone who thinks like these people do, I'm getting as far away as possible! LOL

 

[Artis]

It serves no legal purpose at all. The whole sovereign citizen thing is something that people who think they are smarter than they are invented to limit their liability to and with the government. The basis of it is that they believe the U.S. government has no jurisdiction over them through a twisted reading of U.S. treaties that deal with admiralty law and international law. If you know someone that believes this hocus pocus, please laugh at them for me.

They should have just incorporated then.

 

[AugustWest]

Thank you for this well written explanation! If I meet anyone who thinks like these people do, I'm getting as far away as possible! LOL

I'm sorry for further subjecting you to this, but here is a wiki link to get some idea of their beliefs:

Sovereign citizen movement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And good idea about staying away from them, the ghost of Ted Kaczynski might breakdance for you otherwise.

 

[tlcya]

Published April 23, 2024, 3:30 p.m. ET
Adams, Cullum, and the Twombleys are represented by the Oklahoma Indigent Defense System (OIDS), the state agency responsible for representing clients who cannot afford private attorneys. The OIDS declined to comment on the charges.
God’s Misfits cult grandma Tifany Adams, accused of killing 2 Kansas moms, is ‘unhinged’ conspiracy theorist: pal

Wait, I thought Tif, Tad, and Cole had hired private counsel? wasn't there some discussion the other day about why Cole would have private counsel and Cora wouldn't? I wonder if initial reports were wrong or if something changed from the one report to another. yep, here it is.

Posted: Apr 17, 2024 / 09:05 AM CDT
Updated: Apr 18, 2024 / 08:22 AM CDT
Adams, Cullum, and Cole Twombly will hire their attorneys. Cora Twombly said she cannot afford an attorney, so the court will appoint one to represent her.
4 charged with murder and kidnapping of Kansas women in Oklahoma

I wonder if the suspects assets have been seized or accounts frozen?

 

[Artis]

Published April 23, 2024, 3:30 p.m. ET
Adams, Cullum, and the Twombleys are represented by the Oklahoma Indigent Defense System (OIDS), the state agency responsible for representing clients who cannot afford private attorneys. The OIDS declined to comment on the charges.
God’s Misfits cult grandma Tifany Adams, accused of killing 2 Kansas moms, is ‘unhinged’ conspiracy theorist: pal

Wait, I thought Tif, Tad, and Cole had hired private counsel? wasn't there some discussion the other day about whyCole would have private counsel and Cora wouldn't? I wonder if initial reports were wrong or if something changed from the one report to another. yep, here it is.

Posted: Apr 17, 2024 / 09:05 AM CDT
Updated: Apr 18, 2024 / 08:22 AM CDT
Adams, Cullum, and Cole Twombly will hire their attorneys. Cora Twombly said she cannot afford an attorney, so the court will appoint one to represent her.
4 charged with murder and kidnapping of Kansas women in Oklahoma

I wonder if the suspects assets have been seized or accounts frozen?

Yeah, that's what was reported. As usual with these things, info isn't always accurate.

 

[Rixey]

Published April 23, 2024, 3:30 p.m. ET
Adams, Cullum, and the Twombleys are represented by the Oklahoma Indigent Defense System (OIDS), the state agency responsible for representing clients who cannot afford private attorneys. The OIDS declined to comment on the charges.
God’s Misfits cult grandma Tifany Adams, accused of killing 2 Kansas moms, is ‘unhinged’ conspiracy theorist: pal

Wait, I thought Tif, Tad, and Cole had hired private counsel? wasn't there some discussion the other day about why Cole would have private counsel and Cora wouldn't? I wonder if initial reports were wrong or if something changed from the one report to another. yep, here it is.

Posted: Apr 17, 2024 / 09:05 AM CDT
Updated: Apr 18, 2024 / 08:22 AM CDT
Adams, Cullum, and Cole Twombly will hire their attorneys. Cora Twombly said she cannot afford an attorney, so the court will appoint one to represent her.
4 charged with murder and kidnapping of Kansas women in Oklahoma

I wonder if the suspects assets have been seized or accounts frozen?

They stated that they intended to hire private counsel, not that they had already done so. They may still do so, if so the court will be notified and once the court approves the change, then the OIDS lawyers will coordinate with the new lawyers and step aside.

But it's also possible they won't be able to for a variety of reasons -- including that so far none of the lawyers they've contacted are willing to represent them -- unusual, but definitely not unheard of, especially in cases like this one. Claiming they can't afford an attorney will require them to show that they are unable to pay.

 

[Odeto BJ]

Published April 23, 2024, 3:30 p.m. ET
Adams, Cullum, and the Twombleys are represented by the Oklahoma Indigent Defense System (OIDS), the state agency responsible for representing clients who cannot afford private attorneys. The OIDS declined to comment on the charges.
God’s Misfits cult grandma Tifany Adams, accused of killing 2 Kansas moms, is ‘unhinged’ conspiracy theorist: pal

Wait, I thought Tif, Tad, and Cole had hired private counsel? wasn't there some discussion the other day about why Cole would have private counsel and Cora wouldn't? I wonder if initial reports were wrong or if something changed from the one report to another. yep, here it is.

Posted: Apr 17, 2024 / 09:05 AM CDT
Updated: Apr 18, 2024 / 08:22 AM CDT
Adams, Cullum, and Cole Twombly will hire their attorneys. Cora Twombly said she cannot afford an attorney, so the court will appoint one to represent her.
4 charged with murder and kidnapping of Kansas women in Oklahoma

I wonder if the suspects assets have been seized or accounts frozen?

So, we have the anti government, free will group of alleged murderers relying on the Oklahoma taxpayers to provide legal counsel to get the best deal they can from the Judicial Branch. At least one of those suspects pursued a leadership role in the political party predominant in the state. Another has purported that his children are his own private property, that he owns them and can do with them anything he elects. Recall that the preservation of and control over private property was the primary reason expressed for secession by the alternate constitution of the Confederate States of America.

Need to wonder, how do you form an ideology if it does not need to satisfy any form of extended logic?

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Tif, Tad and the Twomblys didn’t send the Feds the sovereign citizen paperwork or it would be found on the okcountyrecords site. They also pay their taxes. They are pretenders.

How long has Tifany has been pretending to be a sovereign citizen? Since the custody battles began and she needed some additional <modsnip: unnecessary name calling> to help her kill Veronica?

 

[HuskerGal]

Tif, Tad and the Twomblys didn’t send the Feds the sovereign citizen paperwork or it would be found on the okcountyrecords site. They also pay their taxes. They are pretenders.

How long has Tifany has been pretending to be a sovereign citizen? Since the custody battles began and she needed some additional <modsnip: unnecessary name calling> to help her kill Veronica?

I just find it ironic that you have to send the Feds such paperwork.

 

[Artis]

Did they release COD yet? I feel so badly for their children.
I fear if they are raised with a relative on the paternal side they will be brainwashed about their mother.

As with baby Berreth, I don't think the paternal side will be given custody of those kids. Hopefully, they'll have no contact with them.

 

[Cedars]

Need to wonder, how do you form an ideology if it does not need to satisfy any form of extended logic?

IMO, ideologies are never logical. They are based on emotion, with a thin, crappy veneer of logic to try to justify them.

JMO

 

[legomonster]

Published April 23, 2024, 3:30 p.m. ET
Adams, Cullum, and the Twombleys are represented by the Oklahoma Indigent Defense System (OIDS), the state agency responsible for representing clients who cannot afford private attorneys. The OIDS declined to comment on the charges.
God’s Misfits cult grandma Tifany Adams, accused of killing 2 Kansas moms, is ‘unhinged’ conspiracy theorist: pal

Wait, I thought Tif, Tad, and Cole had hired private counsel? wasn't there some discussion the other day about why Cole would have private counsel and Cora wouldn't? I wonder if initial reports were wrong or if something changed from the one report to another. yep, here it is.

Posted: Apr 17, 2024 / 09:05 AM CDT
Updated: Apr 18, 2024 / 08:22 AM CDT
Adams, Cullum, and Cole Twombly will hire their attorneys. Cora Twombly said she cannot afford an attorney, so the court will appoint one to represent her.
4 charged with murder and kidnapping of Kansas women in Oklahoma

I wonder if the suspects assets have been seized or accounts frozen?

There's asset rich and cash rich. It's easier to pay things cash rich but with assets it takes time to sell and some are unwilling to sell assets (especially land) because they still have not accepted a few things including what their new life entails and/or refusal to accept the land they hold so 'priceless' is indeed much less valuable than what they believe from their parents or previous generational land wealth. From my own personal experience dealing with families and assets.

 

[Artis]

The arrested suspects may be acting all badazz now, a couple readily admitting they were all in on the murders, but once their attorneys sit down with them and explain to them that there is a really good chance they are going to end up, strapped to a gurney with a needle in their arms, I expect the bravado will disappear. The lawyers for the two who confessed will likely fight to have them ruled invalid, with claims that they were coerced or otherwise gotten illegally. Failing in that, I expect the two Twombly's and Grice may attempt to point the fingerof blame at TA, who I think will continue to play the righteous victim all the way to the chamber, while TC stands by her side and goes down with her. JMO

I think they'll all be joining their father below, shortly, down there in the 7th circle.

 

[x_files]

As with baby Berreth, I don't think the paternal side will be given custody of those kids. Hopefully, they'll have no contact with them.

I would hope NOT but the father is still alive correct? He's in rehab, right?

 

[Artis]

He doesn't need a lawyer, he has the Freedom Bundle to protect him.

He may try representing himself. Really.

 

[Artis]

Red Herring....This is not about conspiracy theory God misfit stuff.

A grandmother wanted full control of her grandkids and thought getting rid of the mom would get her exactly what she wanted.

To do this she used scare tactics plain and simple. This is the same thing Angela Wagner did in the Ohio Rhoden murder case.

According to the arrest affidavit TA was getting the others riled up by saying that in VB's care the children would be unprotected from being molested.

It was about "saving" the children. This is how TA got everyone riled up. This is what led to the plans and commission of the 2 homicides.

2 Cents

Good possibility that you're correct and she just lucked out with her friends also being homicidal types.

 

[Artis]

<Snipped for focus>

Not sure what connection you are referring to, but their businesses were all respectable ways to make a livng - such as ranchers, raising cattle, working as a farrier, etc. I don't think that their "lifestyles and businesses" were the problem, I think it was the individual personalities and choices they made that were the problem.

Both nature and nurture contribute to shaping personalities. That environment isn't exactly one that teaches empathy and compassion for other living beings.

 

[Cool Cats]

Good possibility that you're correct and she just lucked out with her friends also being homicidal types.

People tend to do things in a group they would never in a million years do alone. Like during riots where people are jumping on cop cars and throwing rocks through store fronts and stealing, etc....

People feel invincible and above the law in crowds. Jan 6 Capitol mayhem is an example.

So TA would never have the nerve to ambush 2 women on her own but she was able to get up the nerve to go through with it when she convinced her cronies to go along.

A group like that feeds off of each other and gets up their nerve as a group together.

How I see it. This happened in another case I follow.

 

[Cool Cats]

I would hope NOT but the father is still alive correct? He's in rehab, right?

Yes

 

[Artis]

I would very seriously doubt that he did. Because he was questioned & released early on, he may well have thought he had gotten away with everything, so he might not have realized he was still on their radar and in (desperate) need of an attorney. I also expect LE was very happy to allow him to think that.

Secondly, what competent defense attorney would have advised him to just go ahead and provide LE with a confession but not secure lesser charges, etc, etc?? I think he still believes what he did was justified and that he is not subject to the laws of the US or Oklahoma. He's relying on the same logic he used to buy his "freedom kit" and things are still not working working out for him but it may take a good long while before he figures that out.

I feel very sorry for his children, like the others they are now victims of the arrogance & malice of the misfits.

These people obviously did believe that laws against murder apply to them because they buried their victims. Like most murderers, they probably feel justified.