Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #5 *Arrests*

[whinewiththegravy]

It is possible to renounce ones citizenship. But.... it needs to be done via filing a series of forms at a US embassy overseas and then having a final confirmation meeting with a staff person from the embassy.

In short, its a federal process, not a state process. I am thinking the author of the "literature" knows that Sovereign types place a great deal of emphasis on the county government being the highest level of legitimate authority- well until the county tells them do something they dont like.

So.... the Sovereign packet purchasers were told to file renouncement paperwork "A" and "B" and the county court because it would make sense to them.

Yes, this is of a piece with the “constitutional sheriff” movement.

 

[simlyme]

NG is never first with anything. Brian Entin, among others, reported on the ten-foot-deep, predug hole, several days ago, very shortly after the initial arrests. Some here, among them, me, have opined that the hole may have been large enough to bury the car in, and I believe that was the original intent when a skid loader was use to dig the hole, and no doubt, cover it back up. I have even expressed a fear that the two victims may have been buried while still alive, but that was just me expressing a thought that I had. NO ONE has reported that, and the autopsy results have not yet been released, which would be able to tell if the victims suffered asphyxiation. A few nights ago, NG had an "expert" on, talking about the rate of decomposition of the bodies not being as far along as what would be expected if they had been buried right away. The guy was in Michigan and had no firsthand knowledge at all of the case, and even thought the vics had been shot, although the medical examiner so far has only said that they were not shot.

NG loves to lead with a "bombshell", and never having one doesn't keep her from suggesting one. I would take anything I hear from her with a grain of salt until I hear someone else reporting it. JMO

Where is the ME report where he says they were not shot , or anything the me has said ? I've missed some things , is this one of them ?

 

[Warwick7]

Where is the ME report where he says they were not shot , or anything the me has said ? I've missed some things , is this one of them ?

Most articles discuss the ME in the media. All of which state that they clarified who died. But, I have never read or heard anywhere that ME said the 2 Mom's were shot. The original poster may be mistaken.

 

[simlyme]

Most articles discuss the ME in the media. All of which state that they clarified who died. But, I have never read or heard anywhere that ME said the 2 Mom's were shot. The original poster may be mistaken.

I think it started with NN saying that and people rolled with it. There's nothing NN is going to be privy to that we won't be , such as a ME report. I can't stand when news outlets say they got something from a reliable source. Really ? <modsnip: off topic>

 

[SteveP]

I think it started with NN saying that and people rolled with it. There's nothing NN is going to be privy to that we won't be , such as a ME report. I can't stand when news outlets say they got something from a reliable source. Really ? <modsnip: off topic>

Everyone is free to take it as fact or not, as the Medical Examiner's report is either not yet complete, or has never been released, but here is a statement that references Brian Entin, stating that he has confirmed that the two victims were not shot. I think BE has proven himself a reputable journalist in many crime stories, dating back to the Gabby Petito murder, and I do not believe that he would have used the word "confirmed" unless the information came from a source with knowledge of such. Unlike many other journalists, BE was "boots on the ground" in the area when he made that statement. I am not sure if any other outlets have reported that, but NN is an accepted source here. I also understand, and respect, that we each decide for ourselves what is an is not a reputable source. JMO

I do eagerly await the release of the medical examiner's report, so that we can confirm for ourselves the COD of the women.

NewsNation’s Brian Entin confirmed with a medical examiner the women were not shot as previously reported. A cause of death is still pending.

Kansas moms killings: What we know

New details have emerged about the killings of two Kansas mothers whose suspected killers had a violent history, according to court documents.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[imstilla.grandma]

“The people in this county are good people. And we don’t want this to reflect differently than what we really are. We’re not cults. We’re not misfits, not demons,” the neighbor said.

Oklahoma Panhandle, a thin strip of land with a history of lawlessness and criminality in the 1800s, where the suspects lived and where the two bodies were found, had historically been known as “No Man’s Land.”

Kansas moms killing: Neighbor says ‘We’re not cultists, demons’

A local man who saw police find the two Kansas moms’ bodies knew both victims and the suspects being questioned in the murder investigation.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Everyone is free to take it as fact or not, as the Medical Examiner's report is either not yet complete, or has never been released, but here is a statement that references Brian Entin, stating that he has confirmed that the two victims were not shot. I think BE has proven himself a reputable journalist in many crime stories, dating back to the Petito murder, and I do not believe that he would have used the word "confirmed" unless the information came from a source with knowledge of such. Unlike many other journalists, BE was "boots on the ground" in the area when he made that statement. I am not sure if any other outlets have reported that, but NN is an accepted source here. JMO

NewsNation’s Brian Entin confirmed with a medical examiner the women were not shot as previously reported. A cause of death is still pending.

Kansas moms killings: What we know

New details have emerged about the killings of two Kansas mothers whose suspected killers had a violent history, according to court documents.

www.newsnationnow.com

*These are his words: I have confirmed… I believe him. *However, I add this. Should he have reported it before ME? Didn’t this prob fuel the NG buried alive discussion? I feel absolutely pained for the families.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1783256292775154031

 

[Warwick7]

Everyone is free to take it as fact or not, as the Medical Examiner's report is either not yet complete, or has never been released, but here is a statement that references Brian Entin, stating that he has confirmed that the two victims were not shot. I think BE has proven himself a reputable journalist in many crime stories, dating back to the Gabby Petito murder, and I do not believe that he would have used the word "confirmed" unless the information came from a source with knowledge of such. Unlike many other journalists, BE was "boots on the ground" in the area when he made that statement. I am not sure if any other outlets have reported that, but NN is an accepted source here. I also understand, and respect, that we each decide for ourselves what is an is not a reputable source. JMO

I do eagerly await the release of the medical examiner's report, so that we can confirm for ourselves the COD of the women.

NewsNation’s Brian Entin confirmed with a medical examiner the women were not shot as previously reported. A cause of death is still pending.

Kansas moms killings: What we know

New details have emerged about the killings of two Kansas mothers whose suspected killers had a violent history, according to court documents.

www.newsnationnow.com

I agree.
Brian Entin is well respected. No one is perfect, but, I'll take what he has to say any day.

 

[SteveP]

*These are his words: I have confirmed… I believe him. *However, I add this. Should he have reported it before ME? Didn’t this prob fuel the NG buried alive discussion? I feel absolutely pained for the families.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1783256292775154031

Who knows what fueled the NG buried alive speculation, may have even come from here. I often used to say, when she had her show on HN, that her "bombshell tonight!" was almost always something that we here had known about, and discussed, for at least two or three days. I also agree that while BE had a right to report that, I would definitely have preferred to learn it from a ME report. JMO

 

[Universecalling]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed> TA being the master manipulator (though it didn’t take much skill with these idiots), I would not be surprised ONE BIT that she never told the other 4 SHE was the one that cancelled her own trusted supervisor.


TA was more aware of the timeline than the rest were. And decided when and what would happen.

IMO, she created a clear sense of urgency and fear, telling the other 4 that it had to happen that day <modsnip: quoted post was removed>

 

[tlcya]

True, Tifany Adams knew that Veronica Butler would most likely obtain unsupervised visitation with her children on April 17 2024 <modsnip: no link> The other custodial parent, Wrangler Rickman, is in rehab, and could not reasonably respond to a custody application until he is out of rehab. Tifany had no rights beyond guardian babysitter, and she knew that she would lose control of Veronica's children.

At the same time, it looks like Tifany Adams, with her misfit gang, discussed that Veronica's children could be molested in Veronica's care (see CW testimony/affidavit) <modsnip> On that basis, it looks like Tifany dismissed the supervisor and prepared her gang of Tad, Cole, Cora, and Paul to conspire to commit murder against Veronica <modsnip: no source link for information posted as fact>

Something that Tifany might not have anticipated is that Veronica's disappearance would be noticed right away on the day of her daughter's birthday party, but not on any other Saturday visitation. Any other Saturday, Veronica might not have been expected by family. I wonder what Cheryl Brune, the regular supervisor, can tell us about what Veronica normally did during her supervised visits with children.

This seems orchestrated by Tifany Adams, where she enlisted her boyfriend Tad Cullum, his friends Cora and Cole Twombley, the babysitting family (Cook?) who looked after Veronica's children while she was murdered, the man (Beasley) who looked the other way when bodies were buried in his backyard, and Paul Grice, who apparently has strong beliefs about the relationship between children and their father.

The thread between these people is that they met weekly with Tifany Adams since February to plan how to protect Veronica's children from Veronica. They decided, as a group, that the solution was murder.

View attachment 499628

Court Documents: 4 suspects in missing Kansas women case part of anti-government group

Court documents show the details of the investigation that led to the arrest of four suspects in the murders of Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelley.

www.newschannel10.com

Your speculation about the catalyst and how Tifany likely manipulated the others into assisting in her plot to rid herself of Butler at all costs is compelling. I can see things going down exactly as you described.

Tifany seems to be the type to play fast and loose with the truth. I can see her <modsnip: quoted post was snipped> manipulating and impressing upon her cohorts how now is the time, it has to be now or else, etc

 

[SteveP]

I know I am getting old, but this is probably the hardest case I have ever followed here, as far as having a helluva time keeping all the initials straight. We have a TA and TC, and then not one, but two CT's. TA's son, and the father of the children of the murdered woman, VB, is WR, and the female CT's daughter, who spilled the beans on everyone, is CW. I sometimes even have to reread posts here to make sure who is being referred to. JMO

 

[Muddy K]

I know I am getting old, but this is probably the hardest case I have ever followed here, as far as having a helluva time keeping all the initials straight. We have a TA and TC, and then not one, but two CT's. TA's son, and the father of the children of the murdered woman, VB, is WR, and the female CT's daughter, who spilled the beans on everyone, is CW. I sometimes even have to reread posts here to make sure who is being referred to.JMO

And then you had to go a step further with "JMO"!

 

[Warwick7]

I know I am getting old, but this is probably the hardest case I have ever followed here, as far as having a helluva time keeping all the initials straight. We have a TA and TC, and then not one, but two CT's. TA's son, and the father of the children of the murdered woman, VB, is WR, and the female CT's daughter, who spilled the beans on everyone, is CW. I sometimes even have to reread posts here to make sure who is being referred to. JMO

Yep!
And in the documents there's a Clint Towmbly. Another CT. Lol!

 

[Rhenish]

Oklahoma prosecutors charge fifth member of anti-government group in Kansas women’s killings

Paul Jeremiah Grice, 31, was charged in Texas County with two counts of first-degree murder, two counts of kidnapping and conspiracy to commit murder.

www.nbcnews.com

This was maybe already posted, according to the article Paul Grice admitted to the murders. Wow.

 

[otto]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed> <modsnip>
Veronica's attorney stated that she was likely to receive unsupervised visitation. <modsnip: no link>

We know that Veronica wanted custody of her children <modsnip>

Regarding Brune, by cancelling her supervision on the day of the party, even though Tifany claims she was worried about the safety of the children, I think it looks like Tifany did not trust Brune <modsnip: speculation not based on known facts>

Affidavit for Arrest Warrant

 

[SteveP]

<modsnip>
Veronica's attorney stated that she was likely to receive unsupervised visitation. <modsnip: no link>

We know that Veronica wanted custody of her children <modsnip>

Regarding Brune, by cancelling her supervision on the day of the party, even though Tifany claims she was worried about the safety of the children, I think it looks like Tifany did not trust Brune <modsnip: speculation not based on known facts>

Affidavit for Arrest Warrant

While I don't disagree with the bulk of your speculation, I do feel that the reason TA gave the regular supervisor, Brune, time off the day of the party, <modsnip: quoted post was snipped> I think she likely just did not want Brune to be the other victim at the murder of VB. I think she wanted it to be someone that VB picked. JMO

 

[JulesinOz]

True, Tifany Adams knew that Veronica Butler would most likely obtain unsupervised visitation with her children on April 17 2024 <modsnip>The other custodial parent, Wrangler Rickman, is in rehab, and could not reasonably respond to a custody application until he is out of rehab. Tifany had no rights beyond guardian babysitter, and she knew that she would lose control of Veronica's children.

At the same time, it looks like Tifany Adams, with her misfit gang, discussed that Veronica's children could be molested in Veronica's care (see CW testimony/affidavit) <modsnip> On that basis, it looks like Tifany dismissed the supervisor and prepared her gang of Tad, Cole, Cora, and Paul to conspire to commit murder against Veronica <modsnip>

Something that Tifany might not have anticipated is that Veronica's disappearance would be noticed right away on the day of her daughter's birthday party, but not on any other Saturday visitation. Any other Saturday, Veronica might not have been expected by family. I wonder what Cheryl Brune, the regular supervisor, can tell us about what Veronica normally did during her supervised visits with children.

This seems orchestrated by Tifany Adams, where she enlisted her boyfriend Tad Cullum, his friends Cora and Cole Twombley, the babysitting family (Cook?) who looked after Veronica's children while she was murdered, the man (Beasley) who looked the other way when bodies were buried in his backyard, and Paul Grice, who apparently has strong beliefs about the relationship between children and their father.

The thread between these people is that they met weekly with Tifany Adams since February to plan how to protect Veronica's children from Veronica. They decided, as a group, that the solution was murder.

View attachment 499628

Court Documents: 4 suspects in missing Kansas women case part of anti-government group

Court documents show the details of the investigation that led to the arrest of four suspects in the murders of Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelley.

www.newschannel10.com

What information are you referring to when you state that the Cooks were enlisted in this incident by TA? Are you assuming they knew because they looked after the children that morning or is there some information that points to them being accomplices? Same question for your statement that Mr. Beasley looked the other way. Is there evidence of that?

 

[Universecalling]

While I don't disagree with the bulk of your speculation, I do feel that the reason TA gave the regular supervisor, Brune, time off the day of the party, <modsnip: quoted post was snipped> I think she likely just did not want Brune to be the other victim at the murder of VB. I think she wanted it to be someone that VB picked. JMO

This.
Brune was chosen and paid by TA.
And has supervised in the past. She was a trusted supervisor.
Exactly the reason TA told Brune to say she couldn’t supervise for the next few weeks. TA gave Brune the reason for this ask-she wants to get the scoop fro the children.
I think she spared her on purpose bc she liked her.

 

[imstilla.grandma]