Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #5 *Arrests*

[Cool Cats]

This case is in the preliminary stages and regardless of any defendant confirming responsibility, I expect that each defendant will eventually enter NG pleas including TA and PG.

We know that since TA's arrest and recorded custodial interview where she claimed responsibility for the deaths of the victims, four defense attorneys have filed notices of appearance for TA, and have already filed Motions requesting the State turn over the evidence the State has against TA.

Four of the defendants have made initial appearances before the Court, and the judicial clock is ticking for discovery and the preliminary hearing date.

During the exchange of the evidence (i.e., discovery), I expect to next see Defense Motions seeking to suppress the recorded statements by TA (and PG)-- citing she made them without the benefit of having an attorney, and the Prosecution will counter TA did not invoke her right to remain silent and/or request an attorney be present.

If the State can satisfy the Court that TA (and PG) made the recorded statements voluntarily, the statements will likely be admitted as evidence and used during the trial.

There's a very long road ahead here.

There is neither a Constitutional right nor a statutory right to a plea agreement. However, the reality of the Oklahoma criminal process is that the vast majority of criminal cases end in a plea bargain. An experienced Oklahoma criminal defense attorney will never coerce a Defendant to take a plea agreement. Plea agreements should only be pursued when the Defendant is ready to admit responsibility to the court and plead guilty.

The Criminal Process

www.oklahomalegalgroup.com

OSCN Case Details

Thanks...will have to call you:

"Just the facts Seattle"

 

[rogue ant]

Blood or Pools of Blood?

@simlyme Blood or Pools of Blood?
IDK who originated description of scene w "pools of blood."

RSBM.

There had been mention of "puddles of blood".

Post in thread 'OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #2 *Arrests*' OK - OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #2 *Arrests*

 

[Bree1950]

I actually agree with that perspective - Especially for the younger GP.
However, what I see here is a group of extremely brutal individuals who will literally kill anyone who gets in their way. We never envision a prison break, but they happen occasionally.

The Death Penalty removes these 5 people from ever being able to escape. So, we're actually protecting the community.

And protecting the prison guards from them also!

 

[Chimera]

Reading through all of these posts about TA confessing and may be able to plea to LWOP. I hope the DA doesn't offer plea deals especially to TA. It would be soooo messed up if the ring leader gets a deal. That would be infuriating. But I am sure it has happened before, but it's not right.

Agreed.
Very grateful the bodies were found and hopefully with enough evidence as to what the women suffered before death to add to the charges against the gruesome five.
Imo.
Have to add, I found myself humming your 'username' in my head ...Love it !

 

[Bree1950]

I don't know about that because we've yet to see what her statement was. Could be she said something like, "Yeah, I did it but Jilian shot at me and I bought the stun guns because I feared for my life".

Don’t forget - she’d have to say she brought 4 other people with her to perform a kidnap and murder. I do not think anyone will believe she feared for her life

 

[Artis]

Don’t forget - she’d have to say she brought 4 other people with her to perform a kidnap and murder. I do not think anyone will believe she feared for her life

I don't think anyone will believe anything other than all five of them are murderers and pretty much Satan's spawn. Doesn't mean they won't try to concoct some BS defense, though.

 

[Seattle1]

IDK who originated description of scene w "pools of blood."

IMO, I think this phrase, 'pools of blood,' goes back to when it was initially being reported the women were likely shot, and MSM near and far all published the phrase.

The deaths of two Kansas women unearthed an anti-government group. Was it a factor in murder?

So-called sovereign citizens believe a number of wacko things, including that they can ignore laws and court orders. | Commentary

www.oklahoman.com

BODIES FOUND, POOLS OF BLOOD DISCOVERED, AS MOMS MISS BIRTHDAY PARTY

CRIME Stories with Nancy Grace

www.crimeonline.com

Missing Kansas moms may have been shot, pools of blood found near their car: report

Veronica Butler, 27, and Jilian Kelley, 39, have been missing since March 30.

nypost.com

Two bodies are found in hunt for Kansas moms who disappeared

Two bodies have been recovered in connection with the disappearance of two Kansas mothers who were last seen two weeks ago, while four people have been charged with kidnapping and murder.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

Agreed.
Very grateful the bodies were found and hopefully with enough evidence as to what the women suffered before death to add to the charges against the gruesome five.
Imo.
Have to add, I found myself humming your 'username' in my head ...Love it !

Haha thanks

 

[Seattle1]

The deaths of two Kansas women unearthed an anti-government group. Was it a factor in murder?

So-called sovereign citizens believe a number of wacko things, including that they can ignore laws and court orders. | Commentary

www.oklahoman.com

4/24/24

What should we make of “God’s Misfits?”

That’s the name Oklahoma authorities say a small antigovernment group who held worship services in their homes called themselves. Four of these “misfits” have been charged with the kidnapping and murder of a pair of southwest Kansas women missing since March 30.

[..]

Hunter McKee, an OSBI public information officer, referred my questions about the case and what authorities had learned about “God’s Misfits” to court records in Texas County District Court at Guymon.

[..]

It is, of course, important to remember the defendants are innocent until proven guilty. But looking over the court filings, there is a prodigious amount of evidence against these individuals, who seem bound together by their hatred of the government and their twisted interpretation of faith.

[..]

Cole Twombly seemed to be the most outspoken, at least on social media, and his posts went right up to April 12, when he described celebrating his 50th birthday. In addition to ranch life, he posted or reposted on Facebook about Cliven Bundy and his bloody standoff with federal agents over grazing rights; passed along an Ayn Rand quote about it being impossible for innocent men to live without breaking government’s laws; and an odd and chilling post about a toy made to resemble the armored “Killdozer” that Marvin Heemeyer used to level city hall and other structures in 2004 at Granby, Colorado. There’s also a lot of hateful stuff that is anti-vax, anti-LGBTQ+ and anti-liberal.

[..]

On Oct. 5, he thanked “the Keyes community and the Misfits” for a prayer meeting that night at a park. “Keyes is claimed for the almighty God through Jesus name !!!,” he posted. “NOTHING CAN STOP WHAT IS COMING !!!”

[..]

It appears “God’s Misfits” have beliefs similar to the sovereign citizen movement, mixed with QAnon conspiracies, although I couldn’t find a coherent ideology on Cole Twombly’s page. So-called sovereign citizens believe a number of wacko things, including that they can ignore laws and court orders because they have freed themselves from an illegitimate and oppressive government.

But that didn’t stop the “Misfits” from accepting government farm subsidies. The EWG Farm Subsidy Database indicates Tifany Adams took at least $134,000 in subsidies since 2013. She took $2,828 in crop rotation payments in October 2023, according to the USDA. Last year, she even was elected chair of the Cimarron County GOP, according to state officials.

So, what to make of “God’s Misfits?”

They have been engaged in the kind of political hate-mongering and misinformation that has driven our country to the edge of political catastrophe, if Cole Twombly’s Facebook page is any indication. This does not mean that everyone who subscribes to right-wing conspiracy theory or is QAnon curious is prone to violence, but violence — especially armed resistance to authority — is fundamental to this kind of political extremism.

[..]

________

Much more at the MSM link

 

[Sundog]

I would rather be dead than have a life sentence so justice to me is LWOP.

A person can make a difference and have a meaningful life even in prison.

 

[Sundog]

I actually agree with that perspective - Especially for the younger GP.
However, what I see here is a group of extremely brutal individuals who will literally kill anyone who gets in their way. We never envision a prison break, but they happen occasionally.

The Death Penalty removes these 5 people from ever being able to escape. So, we're actually protecting the community.

We can't put to death every prisoner who could escape and harm the community. Nor should we.

 

[Arkay]

I'd bet a jury of all sovereign citizens, or whatever it is that Grice and the Cooks are, would convict them the same as anyone else.

Would “Sovereign Citizens” even answer a jury summons? I presume they would consider that to be part of the governmental procedures that they reject.

Just speculation.

 

[Artis]

Would “Sovereign Citizens” even answer a jury summons? I presume they would consider that to be part of the governmental procedures that they reject.

Just speculation.

I don't know. Sovereign Citizens is a specific thing and I suppose various groups who think along similar lines have differing POVs. I would suspect, though, that they don't oppose all aspects of government but just some that they see as mission creep, overreach and the like. I think some are into English common law and that certainly uses courts and juries.

 

[CuriousCricket]

We can't put to death every prisoner who could escape and harm the community. Nor should we.

NEVER suggested that. But people who abduct and kill in broad daylight, and willing to kill anyone who simply sides with someone they don't like . . . yep. THOSE people are a danger to the community -- any community, anytime they're free enough to extinguish life. Plus, they've worked hard to earn the state's Death Penalty. Let's give it to them.

 

[Sundog]

NEVER suggested that. But people who abduct and kill in broad daylight, and willing to kill anyone who simply sides with someone they don't like . . . yep. THOSE people are a danger to the community -- any community, anytime they're free enough to extinguish life. Plus, they've worked hard to earn the state's Death Penalty. Let's give it to them.

Life without parole would protect people's safety and they would no longer be a danger to the community.

JMO

 

[Sundog]

It was reported in MSM that the judge in Oklahoma entered guilty pleas on the suspects' behalf when they appeared in court for their arraignment.

Do we know if that is because the defendants refused to enter a plea so the judge had to do it for them and therefore had to enter a "not guilty" plea? This is what happened in the Bryan Kohberger case in Idaho. BK didn't enter a plea nor did his attorney on his behalf, so the judge had to enter the plea of "not guilty." After the judge read the charges and asked BK how he would plead, BK's attorney said that they would "stand silent" at this time.

I wonder if this is what happened in this case. Another scenario might be that since the defendants did not have attorneys at the time, that the judge had to enter the plea of not guilty on their behalf.

Not sure which it was.

ETA -- info on "Standing Silent" when asked to enter a plea by a judge -

It's uncommon but not unheard of for defendants to "stand silent" in criminal cases. Sometimes it is done because defendants and their attorneys feel they need more time to weigh the ramifications of entering a plea of guilty or not guilty; other times it can be part of a broader legal strategy or simply a defendant's personal choice.

Legal expert explains Bryan Kohberger arraignment, plea

Newswatch 16's Amanda Eustice spoke with a criminal defense attorney about what Monday's arraignment means for both the prosecution and defense.

www.wnep.com

Bond denied for 4 'God's Misfits' defendants in the killing of 2 Kansas women

An Oklahoma judge has denied bond for the four people charged with kidnapping and killing two Kansas women

abcnews.go.com

 

[CuriousCricket]

The Prosecutor has no incentive to offer a plea deal. There is forensic evidence that will convict.

JMO

I think that depends on whether they're planning to try them all in one trial, or if they need to try them individually. Trying them one at a time would be exorbitantly expensive, so I'd think trying to plead one or all down might be beneficial.

I suspect whether they're tried together or not might depend on what LC learns about the strength of the Sovereign Citizen movement in that area prior to trial.

Do you wonder if TA and gang are counting on having at least one SC on the jury? My guess is that the Misfits are perhaps so accustomed to dealing with their own little group that they may think the entire county supports the SC movement.
Wonder how much support there really is.

 

[MyBelle]

I think that depends on whether they're planning to try them all in one trial, or if they need to try them individually. Trying them one at a time would be exorbitantly expensive, so I'd think trying to plead one or all down might be beneficial.

I suspect whether they're tried together or not might depend on what LC learns about the strength of the Sovereign Citizen movement in that area prior to trial.

Do you wonder if TA and gang are counting on having at least one SC on the jury? My guess is that the Misfits are perhaps so accustomed to dealing with their own little group that they may think the entire county supports the SC movement.
Wonder how much support there really is.

The goal is justice for the victims. Whether they are tried together or individually, the cost is irrelevant. I think it will depend more on the mental health evaluations they will undergo.

JMO

 

[Artis]

I think that depends on whether they're planning to try them all in one trial, or if they need to try them individually. Trying them one at a time would be exorbitantly expensive, so I'd think trying to plead one or all down might be beneficial.

I suspect whether they're tried together or not might depend on what LC learns about the strength of the Sovereign Citizen movement in that area prior to trial.

Do you wonder if TA and gang are counting on having at least one SC on the jury? My guess is that the Misfits are perhaps so accustomed to dealing with their own little group that they may think the entire county supports the SC movement.
Wonder how much support there really is.

Only one of the five, Grice, filed those papers and it was something other than SC (can't recall).<modsnip - sleuthing a person not named POI by LE> I highly doubt there are many people around OK or anywhere, for that matter, where it's likely any would end up on a jury. A real jury of their peers would be ranchers of which there probably lots in OK.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Only one of the five, Grice, filed those papers and it was something other than SC (can't recall). <modsnip - sleuthing a person not named POI by LE> I highly doubt there are many people around OK or anywhere, for that matter, where it's likely any would end up on a jury. A real jury of their peers would be ranchers of which there probably lots in OK.

Thanks for the details.

I'm thinking the group may live in a little "echo" chamber and may believe SCers are more numerous than they are . . . . but that's just me wondering about their antics, especially the seeming confessions. I don't trust what's going on with that.