Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #5 *Arrests*

[CuriousCricket]

Kansas and OK are second amendment states and no license is required to carry a concealed weapon. (Assuming there is nothing preventing them from possessing a firearm) There are some instances or locations where CC and OC are prohibited but not many within either state. JK could have concealed carry in her purse with no license requirements other than if there was some other reason that prevented her from possessing a firearm. JMO

One of the things I noticed about Oklahoma is that there's not even a residency clause for carrying. Where I live and at least one adjoining state, the person carrying must have an address in the state in order to carry concealed and not be prohibited from carrying for some reason. I noticed that being a resident of Oklahoma was not included in the Oklahoma law I found online. I didn't check Kansas since they were Oklahoma.

 

[Odeto BJ]

Just my opinion, it was not intended for the victims car to be left at a bloody crime scene. Something went wrong so that it wasn’t either driven or hauled away, perhaps because it was found too soon and they ran out of time. It was never “the perfect crime” but had the location of the vehicle not pointed directly towards VB’s conflict with TA regarding the children, it would’ve taken LE longer to gather enough evidence to implicate the five misfits IMO.

Following up on this: I believe there was a location selected for the Kia in a totally different direction from the route it was taking; and that the scene of abandonment was to look like the car had a mishap....as in driven off a bridge or similar. To do that: (2) people would have to be involved, one to drive the Kia and the other to provide the return ride. I believe this part of the plan was aborted because there was a lot of evidence in the car, about the car and generally at the scene that would be inconsistent with the vehicle encountering a driving incident at an entirely alternate location.

I don't think the intent was to put the car in the dug hole near the dam. If the locations are right, that hole was only about 500 feet from the dwelling and even offloading the car from a trailer would have been a huge risk of exposure. A "normal" stock trailer would not have the floor strength or ramp arrangement to support loading a car; and the skid-steer would have been worse in terms of weight concentration. Almost anything normally used to load out a skid-steer would have been an open trailer; not the semi-enclosed one.

Still do want to know how wide and long that hole was.

JMO and recognizing that more evidence could prove this entirely wrong.

 

[Cool Cats]

Following up on this: I believe there was a location selected for the Kia in a totally different direction from the route it was taking; and that the scene of abandonment was to look like the car had a mishap....as in driven off a bridge or similar. To do that: (2) people would have to be involved, one to drive the Kia and the other to provide the return ride. I believe this part of the plan was aborted because there was a lot of evidence in the car, about the car and generally at the scene that would be inconsistent with the vehicle encountering a driving incident at an entirely alternate location.

I don't think the intent was to put the car in the dug hole near the dam. If the locations are right, that hole was only about 500 feet from the dwelling and even offloading the car from a trailer would have been a huge risk of exposure. A "normal" stock trailer would not have the floor strength or ramp arrangement to support loading a car; and the skid-steer would have been worse in terms of weight concentration. Almost anything normally used to load out a skid-steer would have been an open trailer; not the semi-enclosed one.

Still do want to know how wide and long that hole was.

JMO and recognizing that more evidence could prove this entirely wrong.

I am not understanding about the car.

Everyone seems to think the car was supposed to be moved, why?

If the plan was to move the car then just take the keys and drive it out into no mans land. Simple.

 

[GRT]

I don't buy the broken window. No mention of broken windows.
As soon as someone started hitting my window I would hit the gas and be gone.

If someone's car was behind me I'd hit their car and move it into kingdom come.

I believe the ladies rolled down or left down their windows to see what the person wanted not even thinking about being in danger.

2 cents

I could be wrong but I thought the motorist who first reported seeing the car said there was a broken window or windows. Of course, in the early days of a story, so much gets misreported.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I could be wrong but I thought the motorist who first reported seeing the car said there was a broken window or windows. Of course, in the early days of a story, so much gets misreported.

We know that the car was a small blue SUV that the car belonged toVeronica. I spoke to an eyewitness last night who says that she wastraveling on that same road and passed by and saw the abandonedcar. Her story is that at least one of the windows were smashed wasbroken on that car. Now police have not confirmed that, but theeyewitness said that she saw a window smashed on the car. She alsosays that she made a nine to one one call to report this abandonedcar on the side of the road in this rural area.

Hey, Nicole Parton, was it a driver's window passenger front? Back?

The witness said that she didn't stop, she kept driving, So it was we would have been on the driver's side, either the front or the backwindow, but it was on the driver's side because she could easily seethe broken window.

The witness said that she didn't stop, she kept driving, So it was we would have been on the driver's side, either the front or the back window, but it was on the driver's side because she could easily see the broken window.

Okay, that told me a lot right there. So it is on the driver's side. Itcould easily have benefits a two lane. The only way to pass the caron a two lane is on the driver's side. You're right, Kathleen Murphy.Wasn't a bullet? Is Was that why the glass was smashed out? Guys,we're brainstorming here.

We do know that it was parked on the right side of the road. So as they were driving, the car was just pulled over on the side of the road. Again, we know it was three miles from this four corners trading post, which is the location where they were to meet the grandmother and pick up the children. I am being told by a witness that the hood was not up. There was no signs of car trouble. There was no one seen walking around the car as if trying to, you know, put gas in a car or figure out what's wrong with the car. A witness did say according to them that they saw at least one window smashed out of that car.

Missing Mom and Preacher's Wife Vanish, Picking up Kids: Car Just Found - Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

6:15 PM Saturday: Oklahoma Highway Patrol issues a ‘Missing Endangered’ Alert for Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelley on behalf of the Texas County Sheriffs. By Sunday evening, the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation announces they are joining the investigation into the women's “suspicious...

omny.fm

 

[Cool Cats]

I could be wrong but I thought the motorist who first reported seeing the car said there was a broken window or windows. Of course, in the early days of a story, so much gets misreported.

Anyone can say anything. No proof. Not realistic in my opinion because breaking windows with a hammer gives the women time to drive away. Puts them on notice to get out of there and keep the doors locked and windows up.

The killers wouldn't want the women to be suspicious, they would simply walk up to their car and want the women to open the windows.

2 Cents

 

[Rixey]

Thanks. Your post makes me think that maybe this is what went wrong. That the stun guns were supposed to knock them out enough to restrain them then move them.

The stun guns were used but the ladies fought back. subduing the women this way didn't go to plan. Many police detainees overcome tasers.

So one of the killers went after them with a hammer. Veronica's glasses were in the road with a broken hammer and blood.

What went wrong is the fight in the road leaving evidence.

2 Cents

I agree, I think JK (likely) having a gun and both women fighting back was unexpected. We know Cole arrived with his holstered gun when objecting to CW being questioned by LE and we know TC had his own guns available. I think that they expected they could threaten the women by simply brandishing a gun and get them out of the car that way, then use the stun guns to subdue them before taking them away.

No one in this group appears qualified for Mensa and I think along with their many other miscalculations they completely underestimated VB & JK.

 

[Artis]

You can ram into a vehical in front or back of you and push it enough to get out. I believe there was one truck but not 2 to box them in, so they could ram the lighter vehicle etc.

It makes more sense that the women were stopped and they put down the window or left it down to ask what was going on.

2 Cents

There were five perps. Twomblys took two vehicles; a pick up and a flatbed. There was that long animal hauling trailer thing which LE impounded. That belonged to a relative of Tad so Tad probably hauled it there. Did Tifany drive her own/a separate vehicle and how did Grice get there? The Kia was blocked from proceeding south on 95, by the Twomblys, so they either used one or both vehicles to block it. That forced Veronica to turn west onto Road L where Tifany, Tad and Grice were waiting, in more vehicles, to ambush them. Whatever was used to block 95 was likely quickly pulled in behind the Kia, trapping the victims on Road L. Five peps against two victims, a minimum of three perp vehicles and possibly five, with the victims blocked in from the front and rear. No way she could ram her way out of that. Plus V was driving a Kia and they were in big azz trucks.

 

[Artis]

Following up on this: I believe there was a location selected for the Kia in a totally different direction from the route it was taking; and that the scene of abandonment was to look like the car had a mishap....as in driven off a bridge or similar. To do that: (2) people would have to be involved, one to drive the Kia and the other to provide the return ride. I believe this part of the plan was aborted because there was a lot of evidence in the car, about the car and generally at the scene that would be inconsistent with the vehicle encountering a driving incident at an entirely alternate location.

I don't think the intent was to put the car in the dug hole near the dam. If the locations are right, that hole was only about 500 feet from the dwelling and even offloading the car from a trailer would have been a huge risk of exposure. A "normal" stock trailer would not have the floor strength or ramp arrangement to support loading a car; and the skid-steer would have been worse in terms of weight concentration. Almost anything normally used to load out a skid-steer would have been an open trailer; not the semi-enclosed one.

Still do want to know how wide and long that hole was.

JMO and recognizing that more evidence could prove this entirely wrong.

If that trailer can hold horses and cattle, it can hold the weight of a car.

 

[Artis]

I am not understanding about the car.

Everyone seems to think the car was supposed to be moved, why?

If the plan was to move the car then just take the keys and drive it out into no mans land. Simple.

Cora told CW that things didn't go as planned. We don't know what that meant but it could have been that they didn't have time to move the car. If they could have moved the car, that would be a huge piece of evidence gone. I know people disagree about the stock trailer, but I do think it could have held a car and it could easily have been hauled to New Mexico or somewhere and the car sold to a chop shop.

 

[Gae]

Cora told CW that things didn't go as planned.

One thing we definitely know that went as planned - and that was the plan to actually kill them and not just threaten them - and we know that because of the large grave dug beforehand on Beasley's land. IMO, that shows 100% premeditated murder - not just a threatening/scaring meet-up that went south.
So here's my question-
If their plan was to use the stun guns to get them to comply and haul them to the grave location where they'd finish them off - how were they actually planning on killing them when they got to the gravesite?

 

[Megnut]

Perhaps VB exited the car and JK, witnessing aggression, locked the car, but as a passenger, she only had minutes to attempt to gain control of the vehicle.

The hammer might have been deployed to break the window in order to unlock the door. If either woman was tazed in the driver's seat, it's entirely possible none of the five wanted to sit in that seat (because bodily functions).

Because of the added brutality, getting gone likely took priority over all other considerations, including the vehicle.

Also they would have had no way to predict such a rapid response by VB's family and may have had a back up plan for recovering and concealing the KIA.

Imagine if they had been successful in disappearing the vehicle too. They'd still have been caught, it just might not have incited such a strong response from LE.

Abandoned car, broken/open window, signs of foul play, pools of blood. That'll get LE's attention every time.

And thank goodness for it. Evidence seized before the five Einsteins could hide it.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785428726508888276

 

[Warwick7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785428726508888276

 

[SteveP]

Cora told CW that things didn't go as planned. We don't know what that meant but it could have been that they didn't have time to move the car. If they could have moved the car, that would be a huge piece of evidence gone. I know people disagree about the stock trailer, but I do think it could have held a car and it could easily have been hauled to New Mexico or somewhere and the car sold to a chop shop.

Clearly, the easiest and quickest way, by far, to disappear the Kia would have been for someone to have driven it away from the crime scene. In the time it would have taken to load the Kia onto a flatbed or stock trailer, and secure it, if even doable, the car could have been miles away if driven. I know I have beaten this drum since first hearing of the predug hole, and I know not everyone agrees, but I still think the plan was for it to be driven to the site of the hole, and for it to be buried along with the two victims. Why that didn't happen, who knows, but I believe strongly that disposal of the car was the part of the mission, or at least A part of the mission, that did not go as planned. Was PG supposed to be the driver and backed out when he realized the gravity of what was happening? Was there a broken window or windshield, from either a hammer blow or a gunshot from Jilian's handgun, that made visibility such that it could not be safely driven, or not driven without attracting attention? We have heard nothing about the condition of the car, other than blood and other evidence of a struggle inside. Did that evidence include broken glass? We do not know, but LE do. We may not have these facts until these murderers go on trial. And as someone upthread stated, I really would love to know the size of that hole. JMO

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

I am not understanding about the car.

Everyone seems to think the car was supposed to be moved, why?

If the plan was to move the car then just take the keys and drive it out into no mans land. Simple.

Yes agree. But I think there was some speculation that maybe the Kia keys might have been lost in the confrontation? I’ve not seen any official reports on that but some have wondered. Has it been reported that the keys were in the vehicle or ignition? I can’t recall. MOO

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

Given that these 5 weren't exactly MENSA members, it could be that they didn't have a plan for the car. Maybe the plan was just to leave it there with no backup plan. Just a thought.

 

[Rixey]

One thing we definitely know that went as planned - and that was the plan to actually kill them and not just threaten them - and we know that because of the large grave dug beforehand on Beasley's land. IMO, that shows 100% premeditated murder - not just a threatening/scaring meet-up that went south.
So here's my question-
If their plan was to use the stun guns to get them to comply and haul them to the grave location where they'd finish them off - how were they actually planning on killing them when they got to the gravesite?

It's likely they planned to shoot them. One shot, close range is quick and 'easy' if the target can't move and you are used to shooting. Sadly, I don't think they would have cared much if one shot killed them instantly as long it got the job done, so two gunshots was all they thought they'd need.

In a rural area a couple of gunshots would not necessarily even be noticed. I live in a much less rural area and yet gunshots are routine enough around here that even the dogs rarely bark. The only time I really notice them is when a neighbor down the hill is using his one gun that sounds like a cannon going off - the rest I generally don't pay attention to at all, especially during the day or on weekends. Plus there are a multitude of plausible excuses if anyone did ask what you were shooting at - injured livestock, snake, crows, etc

 

[Arkay]

A celebration of life will be held to honor Jilian Kelley at 10:00am CDT tomorrow at the First Christian Church in Hugoton, KS. The Willow Christian Church in Indianola, where her family was preparing to go to minister, will also livestream the service at their church, with a fellowship gathering to follow.

Livestream link:
https://evt.live/jilian-kelley-memorial-service

I’m not sure why this suddenly gave me such a jolt, but it did.

Clearly I know that Jillian died, but this Celebration of Life ceremony has starkly reminded me that she had nothing to do with this deadly family feud and should not have been murdered. Obviously neither should have VB been murdered, but JK was not a part of this family and friend group.

She must have been chosen as a responsible woman in the community, the wife of a pastor, and also as a mother who knew about caring for children .

She may have gotten paid for it, or she may have been a Good Samaritan, (because I already don’t remember some of what’s been posted on this thread and if she’d been paid or not).

I did not get paid when I was supervising custody, as I volunteered because I knew the people involved.

Jillian strikes me as someone who innocently went to help a family make progress towards healing, and such a fate is so unjustified and disproportionate.

JMO

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

It’s beyond stupid for someone to admit to being a part of this homicidal group after the five were arrested and then do an interview with Brian Entin. I call them God’s Morons.