OR OR - David 'Dave' Lewis, 46, Ashland, 4 September 2008

[Red Clover]

We know a few things about these murders and arsons...

Per news reports and LE between 2008-2020
Troy & Dave were both shot

Both Troy & Dave were murdered in the middle of the night or early morning, during the hours most people are sleeping

Both Troy & Dave's locations at their time of death weren't well known

Dave lived up a long driveway with a locked gate

Troy was camping off the main path under brush

All three fire's were set or reported between 1-4 am

Both murder crime scenes were destroyed by arson

All three arsons and both murders were in Jackson County Oregon in the weeks of September 1-14th 2008

What else do we know?

Adding yellow flagging tape was reportedly seen at Conde Creek Road on 9/3/2008 per Sleuth2010

Below is a screenshot from the time because I thought it was such a significant detail at the time (and still do!)

 

[Gemmie]

Dave in his jeep
Easter 2008

This is a photo of a photocopy of the photo from 2008 so it's not great but this is exactly what he looked like.
Sparkling eyes (behind the sunglasses, lol)
Big grin.

I gave the physical copies of a picture I had of Dave and several from the memorial to a member of the family in the weeks following his memorial

View attachment 462712

That's a jeep??? It looks like a tank!

What a great smile. Every pic I've seen of him he has that same contagious smile. I'll bet it didn't take long for everyone to be smiling once they were in his presence.

 

[Sleuth2010]

As for motive and/or hardship created:
David's parents were upset with the way their grandkids were raised and the man who was raising David's sons. As their father, David actually had little custody time ( the school principal didn't know who was their actual father! David or the lying guy who lived under another name back east!)

The two men had a "physical altercation " and David was sent to Sheriff Winter's jail! He suffered all the way around. Years of animosity.

After the murder and body burning, detectives took a good long look at that guy and his history.

 

[Lilibet]

As for motive and/or hardship created:
David's parents were upset with the way their grandkids were raised and the man who was raising David's sons. As their father, David actually had little custody time ( the school principal didn't know who was their actual father! David or the lying guy who lived under another name back east!)

The two men had a "physical altercation " and David was sent to Sheriff Winter's jail! He suffered all the way around. Years of animosity.

After the murder and body burning, detectives took a good long look at that guy and his history.

I’ve never been in a position like Dave’s, but divorce and stepparents and shared custody can be difficult to navigate…at best. So I count my blessings. It sounds like a worst case scenario for Dave. I’m glad detectives have been thorough and looked long and hard at everyone in Dave’s orbit. As far as I understand, no one has been cleared. And as we all know, no one has been arrested, including the stepfather FWIW. We don’t know about anyone’s alibi or other facts that would allow us to zero in on or eliminate anyone in particular. That’s so frustrating after so many years…the not knowing or the living under a cloud of suspicion for some. I feel for everyone except Dave’s murderer.

JMO

 

[Red Clover]

ALL IN MY OPINION ONLY

To start, IME the situation with Dave and his boys was heartwrenching and I believe David was right in fighting for his boys and wanting to be as present as possible in their lives. It was a struggle but IMO that battle has ceased long ago. David's sons are grown men that can handle themselves.

AFAIK, JH, no matter his history, and no matter Dave's feelings for him, is still apart of David's son's family.

AFAIK- There have never been any allegations that I am aware of, that Dave's children were ever in harm's way, this in no way discounts the crimes that JH was duly convicted of and Dave had the court paperwork for, and were the basis for Dave's ongoing distress around the custody and care of his kids.

I WANT TO NOTE THAT, IME, IMO and AFAIK, DAVE'S EX, JF IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN AN EXCELLENT PARENT TO HER AND DAVID'S SONS.

*Full disclosure: One of the daughters of JH is a former coworker...
______________________________
With that said, I've always wondered EXACTLY when one person in particular arrived in the Rogue Valley and EXACTLY by what means.

This particular person on the occasions I saw them in person in September & October of 2008, was driving an older vehicle that was completely loaded to the brim with stuff, but claimed they had flown down with their son for the memorial.

IMO, it was more stuff than you could bring on a plane even for two people.

When I personally saw that car in the days and weeks following the memorial and when I asked about the vehicle, this person told me it had been in storage at a friend's place; but at the time I knew this person hadn't lived in the valley for many years, (at least 20?!) so how could they have a working vehicle full of that much stuff (usable not rat infested) after all those years?

This is the same person, who, at the memorial on the afternoon of 9/14/2008, told me they were camping up on Soda creek when I had asked where they were staying. (I expected them to say a friends, extended family or hotel/motel)

For me, after 15 years of rolling around the facts AFAIK them, IMO this person's stories don't add up and between this person specifically asking me not to mention the vehicle they were using and also asking a relative of mine to specifically lie about something (seemingly small & petty to do with helping set up the contacts & social media for the case) after asking each of us to lie about different things independently, both of us cut this person off that we had been trying to assist with Dave's case in those first few weeks.

Anyone that knew my relative, @dreamweaver (may she rest in peace d. 10/26/2016, Medford Oregon) whether here on WS or in real life, would know she wasn't a liar. Neither of us were GOING TO LIE. Why lie? Why ask someone to lie? What was the motivation for asking us to lie? We had no reason to lie for this person no matter how small or seemingly (at the time) insignificant the lie.

Quite the opposite, which is why I'm here on this thread.

At the time (late 2008) I wasn't wondering how this person that Dave WAS NOT ON GOOD TERMS WITH, AND, HAD ASKED FOR PART OF HIS INHERITANCE, AND THAT DAVE TOLD ME SPECIFICALLY THAT HE WAS EXPECTING TO "JUST SHOW UP" had managed to make themselves the face and voice of Dave's case from day one (articles in Ashland-Medford newspapers on 9/5/2008) I thought at the time, that like me, they were deep in their grief.

I know "I" wasn't thinking about whodunnit yet. I'm not even sure we had all fully grasped the horrific news let alone what had actually happened. We were just devastated he was gone.

Looking back these little details DO seem terribly suspicious, at least to me.

IMOO.

AFAIK per Christian Adams ME, of JCSO
-No one has been eliminated as a suspect.-

Like @Lilibet said above, "We don’t know about anyone’s alibi or other facts that would allow us to zero in on or eliminate anyone in particular."

 

[Red Clover]

ALL IN MY OPINION ONLY

To start, IME the situation with Dave and his boys was heartwrenching and I believe David was right in fighting for his boys and wanting to be as present as possible in their lives. It was a struggle but IMO that battle has ceased long ago. David's sons are grown men that can handle themselves.

AFAIK, JH, no matter his history, and no matter Dave's feelings for him, is still apart of David's son's family.

AFAIK- There have never been any allegations that I am aware of, that Dave's children were ever in harm's way, this in no way discounts the crimes that JH was duly convicted of and Dave had the court paperwork for, and were the basis for Dave's ongoing distress around the custody and care of his kids.

I WANT TO NOTE THAT, IMO and AFAIK, DAVE'S EX, JF IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN AN EXCELLENT PARENT TO HER AND DAVID'S SONS.

*Full disclosure: One of the daughters of JH is a former coworker...
______________________________
With that said, I've always wondered EXACTLY when one person in particular arrived in the Rogue Valley and EXACTLY by what means.

This particular person on the occasions I saw them in person in September & October of 2008, was driving an older vehicle that was completely loaded to the brim with stuff, but claimed they had flown down with their son for the memorial.

IMO, it was more stuff than you could bring on a plane even for two people.

When I personally saw that car in the days and weeks following the memorial and when I asked about the vehicle, this person told me it had been in storage at a friend's place; but at the time I knew this person hadn't lived in the valley for many years, (at least 20?!) so how could they have a working vehicle full of that much stuff (usable not rat infested) after all those years?

This is the same person, who, at the memorial on the afternoon of 9/14/2008, told me they were camping up on Soda creek when I had asked where they were staying. (I expected them to say a friends, extended family or hotel/motel)

For me, after 15 years of rolling around the facts AFAIK them, IMO this person's stories don't add up and between this person specifically asking me not to mention the vehicle they were using and also asking a relative of mine to specifically lie about something (seemingly small & petty to do with helping set up the contacts & social media for the case) after asking each of us to lie about different things independently, both of us cut this person off that we had been trying to assist with Dave's case in those first few weeks.

Anyone that knew my relative, @dreamweaver (may she rest in peace d. 10/26/2016, Medford Oregon) whether here on WS or in real life, would know she wasn't a liar. Neither of us were GOING TO LIE. Why lie? Why ask someone to lie? What was the motivation for asking us to lie? We had no reason to lie for this person no matter how small or seemingly (at the time) insignificant the lie.

Quite the opposite, which is why I'm here on this thread.

At the time (late 2008) I wasn't wondering how this person that Dave WAS NOT ON GOOD TERMS WITH, AND, HAD ASKED FOR PART OF HIS INHERITANCE, AND THAT DAVE TOLD ME SPECIFICALLY THAT HE WAS EXPECTING TO "JUST SHOW UP" had managed to make themselves the face and voice of Dave's case from day one (articles in Ashland-Medford newspapers on 9/5/2008) I thought at the time, that like me, they were deep in their grief.

I know "I" wasn't thinking about whodunnit yet. I'm not even sure we had all fully grasped the horrific news let alone what had actually happened. We were just devastated he was gone.

Looking back these little details DO seem terribly suspicious, at least to me.

IMOO.

AFAIK per Christian Adams ME, of JCSO
-No one has been eliminated as a suspect.-

@dreamweaver in September 2010 replied to a question about Dave's thread on Garren Beller's

Post in thread 'IL - Garren Rudolf Beller, 38, Chicago, 19 Nov 2009'
IL - IL - Garren Rudolf Beller, 38, Chicago, 19 Nov 2009

Thread 'OR - David 'Dave' Lewis, 46, Ashland, 4 September 2008'
OR - OR - David 'Dave' Lewis, 46, Ashland, 4 September 2008

@dreamweaver started this thread for Dave in October 2008 but please note she had stopped posting to Dave's thread at some point well before her passing when she was still active on WS.

EBM for Dreamweaver timeline

 

[Sleuth2010]

Two of David's sons were minors at the time of his murder. They lived with 2 different men (not David) as " step pappy" as David derogatorily called them. First one MT died of an overdose. Dave's xwife, was his fiancé and,"officiated the funeral," per the obituary.

According to all the child psychologists, there is grave influence these men had on David's boy's lives. Character, disposition, ability to achieve in life, choices, family traditions, religious beliefs, life beliefs, etc etc. (all the things that made David a great guy) He was constantly and continuously worried sick, literally, for the rest of his life. Right up to fishing at the lake on Labor Day.

David's entire family, circle of true friends, his sons, their grandparents all knew this and cared deeply about it. David would have had a fit, seeing the man he loathed most in life, showing up at his murder-memorial-body-burning site!!! The same awful lying man,continuing to influence-raise, into men, Dave's adult kids. Not so happy a Thanksgiving 2023 for David Edwin Lewis.
These crimes need to be prosecuted. Including abuse of a corpse. There is evidence and facts. There is a clear connection and those evil killers involved. " No one with blood on their hands is ever free again."

 

[Sleuth2010]

No one has been cleared. Except the ones who have.

 

[Red Clover]

Two of David's sons were minors at the time of his murder. They lived with 2 different men (not David) as " step pappy" as David derogatorily called them. First one MT died of an overdose. Dave's xwife, was his fiancé and,"officiated the funeral," per the obituary.

According to all the child psychologists, there is grave influence these men had on David's boy's lives. Character, disposition, ability to achieve in life, choices, family traditions, religious beliefs, life beliefs, etc etc. (all the things that made David a great guy) He was constantly and continuously worried sick, literally, for the rest of his life. Right up to fishing at the lake on Labor Day.

David's entire family, circle of true friends, his sons, their grandparents all knew this and cared deeply about it. David would have had a fit, seeing the man he loathed most in life, showing up at his murder-memorial-body-burning site!!! The same awful lying man,continuing to influence-raise, into men, Dave's adult kids. Not so happy a Thanksgiving 2023 for David Edwin Lewis.
These crimes need to be prosecuted. Including abuse of a corpse. There is evidence and facts. There is a clear connection and those evil killers involved. " No one with blood on their hands is ever free again."

So, JH is your main suspect?
Not the people like BMcN Dave knew from Hyatt Lake?

Have you heard that BMcN passed? I'm not 100% sure but I saw reference to his passing on an FB post.

I know no one but the actual murderer knows for sure but it seems like you're thinking because Dave had a beef with JH over his contact with the kids that JH would've had the motivation, means & opportunity to murder Dave?

I'm genuinely trying to understand your position.

 

[Sleuth2010]

Well like Dave's counselor said for those involved in his death: " The devil will be waiting."

 

[Red Clover]

Two of David's sons were minors at the time of his murder. They lived with 2 different men (not David) as " step pappy" as David derogatorily called them. First one MT died of an overdose. Dave's xwife, was his fiancé and,"officiated the funeral," per the obituary.

According to all the child psychologists, there is grave influence these men had on David's boy's lives. Character, disposition, ability to achieve in life, choices, family traditions, religious beliefs, life beliefs, etc etc. (all the things that made David a great guy) He was constantly and continuously worried sick, literally, for the rest of his life. Right up to fishing at the lake on Labor Day.

David's entire family, circle of true friends, his sons, their grandparents all knew this and cared deeply about it. David would have had a fit, seeing the man he loathed most in life, showing up at his murder-memorial-body-burning site!!! The same awful lying man,continuing to influence-raise, into men, Dave's adult kids. Not so happy a Thanksgiving 2023 for David Edwin Lewis.
These crimes need to be prosecuted. Including abuse of a corpse. There is evidence and facts. There is a clear connection and those evil killers involved. " No one with blood on their hands is ever free again."

Factually , only one son, SL was under the age of 18 at the time.

SL turned 12 the week of his father's untimely death.

Legal adulthood is 18, when you can vote in the US, but not the legal drinking age which is 21 in most US states.

At the time of David's passing. IIRC, his sons were SL-12, CL-19 and BL-21

 

[Sleuth2010]

Oregon Agency Holds Fate of Park Model Resort - RVBusiness - Breaking RV Industry News

RVBusiness - Breaking RV Industry News Oregon Agency Holds Fate of Park Model Resort

rvbusiness.com

said he’s ready to fight any attempts to shut him down.

“I will go to my grave resolving it,” he said.

He said millions of dollars now are tied up in the project, his line of credit has been canceled and his company, Nor’wester, has been shut down and its 105 employees have been laid off. He said he’s also laid off more than 30 employees at the resort. So far, he said he has spent almost $150,000 in legal fees."

Dave objected. Loudly.

 

[Red Clover]

Oregon Agency Holds Fate of Park Model Resort - RVBusiness - Breaking RV Industry News

RVBusiness - Breaking RV Industry News Oregon Agency Holds Fate of Park Model Resort

rvbusiness.com

said he’s ready to fight any attempts to shut him down.

“I will go to my grave resolving it,” he said.

He said millions of dollars now are tied up in the project, his line of credit has been canceled and his company, Nor’wester, has been shut down and its 105 employees have been laid off. He said he’s also laid off more than 30 employees at the resort. So far, he said he has spent almost $150,000 in legal fees."

Dave objected. Loudly.

Article is from 2009. This is no longer an ongoing issue with the county. AFAIK, all the cabins/rv's that Dave helped build remain onsite and intact.

I'm curious if BMcN has passed away as I saw a passing reference to in an FB group.

 

[Red Clover]

According to all the child psychologists, there is grave influence these men had on David's boy's lives. Character, disposition, ability to achieve in life, choices, family traditions, religious beliefs, life beliefs, etc etc. (all the things that made David a great guy)

Are Dave's sons not functional adults? I'm not understanding. What child psychologists? From where? Are you talking specifically about his sons or studies on children in general?

I would have to see specific papers or academic studies or know more about the child psychologists you're referencing before I assumed anything so specific about Dave's sons.

Right up to fishing at the lake on Labor Day.
*Edited and BBM

Just curious, @Sleuth2010
Do you know for sure Dave was fishing on Labor Day?

Did you visit with Dave at all over Labor Day weekend or on Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday that week?

When was the last time you saw or spoke to Dave?

I spoke with him about 10 days before his death but hadn't seen him for months, possibly Easter 2008 was the last time I saw him.

 

[Sleuth2010]

Cold case playing cards seek jackpot from jails

kval.com

<modsnip: broken link>

Dave is 5 of Clubs.
Troy Carney is 7 of Spades

 

[Sleuth2010]

Cold case playing cards seek jackpot from jails

kval.com

 

[Red Clover]

Oregon Agency Holds Fate of Park Model Resort - RVBusiness - Breaking RV Industry News

RVBusiness - Breaking RV Industry News Oregon Agency Holds Fate of Park Model Resort

rvbusiness.com

said he’s ready to fight any attempts to shut him down.

“I will go to my grave resolving it,” he said.

He said millions of dollars now are tied up in the project, his line of credit has been canceled and his company, Nor’wester, has been shut down and its 105 employees have been laid off. He said he’s also laid off more than 30 employees at the resort. So far, he said he has spent almost $150,000 in legal fees."

Dave objected. Loudly.

Cabin 25 at Hyatt Lake Resort
"A popular cabin that enjoys repeat guests. The cabin is near the restaurant and has a wide lake view from a vantage point nestled under very tall pines. It is a two story model with a queen in the master bedroom and two queens in a very large loft."

Hyatt Lake Resort

 

[Sleuth2010]

MOO IMO

Abuse of a corpse. Lighting Dave's body on fire. A felony crime. Separate from the plotting of the murder.

Dave's murder, body burning and arson of his home ( and all belongings) was an especially heinous murder. He had been threatened that week at Hyatt Lake, Ashland Oregon. There was a vile history with the men his x wife was involved with. Up to and including that Labor Day weekend. It was clear to Dave, if he wanted time with his sons, his hand was forced to go-along, with men he loathed. He spoke to us often about this.

Dave was especially upset with what had happened in his life in the two years prior to his death. He had endured so much up to the bogus " park model RV" that were ILLEGALLY placed on land at Hyatt Lake. There was a bad verbal fight. He allowed an unhoused man to use the latrine... which enraged the owner of the campground/ turned " resort." smh. Roll all those " park model RV" off the campground.

These crimes need to be prosecuted and perhaps with the new District Attorney that will happen. 2024 no more justice denied.

Those who have helped, facilitated, enabled or encouraged these crimes, are known to law enforcement. Guaranteed. Make no mistake about that.

They are Accessory After the Fact. An accessory-after-the-fact is someone who assists 1) someone who has committed a crime, 2) after the person has committed the crime, 3) with knowledge that the person committed the crime, and 4) with the intent to help the person avoid arrest or punishment. An accessory after the fact may be held liable for, among other things, obstruction of justice.

And they will go to prison.

First to law enforcement gets the plea deal.

Then sheriff Mike Winters was unanimously voted no confidence and out-of-office by Jackson County Oregon. (public photo)

Then Sheriff Corey Falls left office due to " micromanaging " from County Administration.

A follow up report details Sheriff Winters inabilities to properly or professionally deal with the sheriff's department.

Dave's case should have been solved, ALL guilty parties prosecuted and any others involved, punished accordingly. Troy Carney ( cold case ) was also found murdered that same day.

Justice Is Required.

IMO MOO OMO

<modsnip: no source link for screenshot>

 

[Red Clover]

MOO IMO

Abuse of a corpse. Lighting Dave's body on fire. A felony crime. Separate from the plotting of the murder.

Dave's murder, body burning and arson of his home ( and all belongings) was an especially heinous murder. He had been threatened that week at Hyatt Lake, Ashland Oregon. There was a vile history with the men his x wife was involved with. Up to and including that Labor Day weekend. It was clear to Dave, if he wanted time with his sons, his hand was forced to go-along, with men he loathed. He spoke to us often about this.

Dave was especially upset with what had happened in his life in the two years prior to his death. He had endured so much up to the bogus " park model RV" that were ILLEGALLY placed on land at Hyatt Lake. There was a bad verbal fight. He allowed an unhoused man to use the latrine... which enraged the owner of the campground/ turned " resort." smh. Roll all those " park model RV" off the campground.

These crimes need to be prosecuted and perhaps with the new District Attorney that will happen. 2024 no more justice denied.

Those who have helped, facilitated, enabled or encouraged these crimes, are known to law enforcement. Guaranteed. Make no mistake about that.

They are Accessory After the Fact. An accessory-after-the-fact is someone who assists 1) someone who has committed a crime, 2) after the person has committed the crime, 3) with knowledge that the person committed the crime, and 4) with the intent to help the person avoid arrest or punishment. An accessory after the fact may be held liable for, among other things, obstruction of justice.

And they will go to prison.

First to law enforcement gets the plea deal.

Then sheriff Mike Winters was unanimously voted no confidence and out-of-office by Jackson County Oregon. (public photo)

Then Sheriff Corey Falls left office due to " micromanaging " from County Administration.

A follow up report details Sheriff Winters inabilities to properly or professionally deal with the sheriff's department.

Dave's case should have been solved, ALL guilty parties prosecuted and any others involved, punished accordingly. Troy Carney ( cold case ) was also found murdered that same day.

Justice Is Required.

IMO MOO OMO

<modsnip: no source link for screenshot>

A couple of clarifying questions @Sleuth2010

ALL IMO ONLY

What would the motivation have been for the people at the Hyatt Lake Resort to kill Dave?
The potential for a loss of revenue?

The land use hullabaloo that cost BMcN $$ hadn't begun before Dave passed AFAIK. I'm aware that Dave wasn't happy about the situation at Hyatt Lake but he did work building those park models before he became, shall we say, disenchanted with the resort owners.

What motivation would JH or other "men his x wife was involved with" have had? That he/they wanted Dave out of the picture or not to have access to his kids, or was JH still mad Dave had assaulted him and persisted in seeing his kids?

Were there any indications that JH had it out for Dave, perhaps a murderous threat?

I know Dave had zero love for JH and had assaulted him in the past but is there any actual evidence showing JH was involved in Dave's murder? I had always assumed he had an alibi.

I've never heard anyone suggest that JH is an actual POI or suspect. Is he? I know you said they took a long hard look at him.

Am I missing something here?
More red herrings??

Is it not a possibility the person that had asked Dave for his inheritance, who Dave told me he was expecting to "just show up" DID show up in the valley over Labor Day weekend?

Dave's not here to tell the tale. The plot worked mostly, whoever committed these heinous acts certainly have yet to be held accountable.

 

[Red Clover]

MOO IMO

Abuse of a corpse. Lighting Dave's body on fire. A felony crime. Separate from the plotting of the murder.

Dave's murder, body burning and arson of his home ( and all belongings) was an especially heinous murder. He had been threatened that week at Hyatt Lake, Ashland Oregon. There was a vile history with the men his x wife was involved with. Up to and including that Labor Day weekend. It was clear to Dave, if he wanted time with his sons, his hand was forced to go-along, with men he loathed. He spoke to us often about this.

Dave was especially upset with what had happened in his life in the two years prior to his death. He had endured so much up to the bogus " park model RV" that were ILLEGALLY placed on land at Hyatt Lake. There was a bad verbal fight. He allowed an unhoused man to use the latrine... which enraged the owner of the campground/ turned " resort." smh. Roll all those " park model RV" off the campground.

These crimes need to be prosecuted and perhaps with the new District Attorney that will happen. 2024 no more justice denied.

Those who have helped, facilitated, enabled or encouraged these crimes, are known to law enforcement. Guaranteed. Make no mistake about that.

They are Accessory After the Fact. An accessory-after-the-fact is someone who assists 1) someone who has committed a crime, 2) after the person has committed the crime, 3) with knowledge that the person committed the crime, and 4) with the intent to help the person avoid arrest or punishment. An accessory after the fact may be held liable for, among other things, obstruction of justice.

And they will go to prison.

First to law enforcement gets the plea deal.

Then sheriff Mike Winters was unanimously voted no confidence and out-of-office by Jackson County Oregon. (public photo)

Then Sheriff Corey Falls left office due to " micromanaging " from County Administration.

A follow up report details Sheriff Winters inabilities to properly or professionally deal with the sheriff's department.

Dave's case should have been solved, ALL guilty parties prosecuted and any others involved, punished accordingly. Troy Carney ( cold case ) was also found murdered that same day.

Justice Is Required.

IMO MOO OMO

<modsnip: no source link for screenshot>

@Sleuth2010

Just a couple more questions.
What can you tell us, specifically, about that Labor Day weekend and Dave's known whereabouts, contacts and activities?

Did you see Dave or talk to him on the phone or in person over Labor Day weekend or M-T-W of that week after Labor Day?

When was the last time you saw or spoke with him?

TIA if you're able to answer

*Edited by me