PA PA - District Attorney Ray Gricar Mysteriously Disappeared - Bellefonte 15 April 2005 #18

[Betty P]

it's fascinating to think of a walk away , there was some innuendo regarding the lack of digging and the zipped lips regarding Ray.

His work related intellectual property and info on open cases are
property of the state..why destroy the computer ? I wouldn't destroy mine..unless...

it had my plans on it and those plans could help you find me. mOO

Ray was not just a very experienced attorney, he was a District Attorney. If you've ever worked with attorneys, they're very aware when it comes to things like putting personal, confidential information on a work computer.

JMO, there's no way he would have put anything personal, incriminating, illegal, etc. on his work laptop. He's a lawyer, that's drilled into them. He didn't get so far in his career by making careless mistakes like that. One possible scenario that does make sense is that he had something on his computer that he thought was routine work, an investigation, witness information about a case, evidence, names, etc. that later became problematic and had to be destroyed.

It's impossible to know if that information was something that was a threat to himself, to others or both. It may have ended up being threatening to him.

 

[Str86ed]

What about the Ex wife? The GF and the daughter were polygraphed but what I see is right in front of us here. He maybe sued?? By who the ex wife?? He is in legal stuff with who??? The ex wife… My question is who would gain from his disappearance? If the answer is the ex wife then I would say prime suspect. And she surely wouldn’t do it herself.. and also probably knows his routine could even be tracking his car. You never know but unless their divorce is old news and already completely settled and she had nothing to gain…. You get my drift

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Ray was not just a very experienced attorney, he was a District Attorney. If you've ever worked with attorneys, they're very aware when it comes to things like putting personal, confidential information on a work computer.

JMO, there's no way he would have put anything personal, incriminating, illegal, etc. on his work laptop. He's a lawyer, that's drilled into them. He didn't get so far in his career by making careless mistakes like that. One possible scenario that does make sense is that he had something on his computer that he thought was routine work, an investigation, witness information about a case, evidence, names, etc. that later became problematic and had to be destroyed.

It's impossible to know if that information was something that was a threat to himself, to others or both. It may have ended up being threatening to him.

RFG used the laptop as his home computer. Apparently, he used it for his personal email, for example.

Plus, if you followed the saga of Kathleen Kane, you would have seen that most of the PA AG's prosecutors used their work computers for personal stuff.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What about the Ex wife? The GF and the daughter were polygraphed but what I see is right in front of us here. He maybe sued?? By who the ex wife?? He is in legal stuff with who??? The ex wife… My question is who would gain from his disappearance? If the answer is the ex wife then I would say prime suspect. And she surely wouldn’t do it herself.. and also probably knows his routine could even be tracking his car. You never know but unless their divorce is old news and already completely settled and she had nothing to gain…. You get my drift

Welcome!

The second Mrs. Gricar, Emma, did not live in the county and had not seen him since the divorce. He was not living in the same town, so his routine would be different. She did not get anything from RFG being declared dead. It was completely settled in the summer of 2001.

The first Mrs. Gricar, Dr. Barbara Gray, way probably the principle breadwinner in the family when they were divorced, c. 1992. She was a tenured full professor at PSU, a department head, and did business consulting.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I can think of several reasons RFG would want the data on his computer destroyed, even if he was planning to return.

1. Work related: He could have had personnel evaluations, or things like that, on the laptop.

2. Personal: These could be several different things:

A. He had financial data on it.

B. He had health data on it. This could include family information,

C. He had something risque on it (but perfectly legal). RFG was an adult and could look at adult pictures if he wanted. Perhaps he and PEF liked taking pictures of each other; some couples do.

If RFG was murdered, the laptop might not have been involved. The killer just got lucky that RFG chose that day to toss it.

I find it very unlikely that Gricar would toss county property when he could have just taken out the hard drive and replaced it.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I find it very unlikely that Gricar would toss county property when he could have just taken out the hard drive and replaced it.

I don't. He could have reported it lost, and reimbursed the county. It was an obsolete laptop, no longer made, even in 2005. He could have walked in on Monday and said, "I had my laptop with me in Lewisburg. I tripped and the laptop went into the river. There wasn't anything too important on it. Let me write a check [about $200.00]."

If this was foul play, that is probably the most likely scenario.

He had talked about purchasing it on retirement as well.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

His age. RFG is now above the median death age.

DBM

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It is RFG's 78th birthday.

 

[HmmMysterious]

It is RFG's 78th birthday.

Happy birthday Ray, I hope we find out what happened to you soon

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There is a "book" out on RFG, which, according to the description, links his disappearance to "Ties to the Penn State investigation. Ties to the Pizza Bomber Bank Robbery Case in Erie Pennsylvania. Secret hypnotic drug. " It is self published, but read the review.

Amazon.com

 

[MeadowMuffin]

There is a "book" out on RFG, which, according to the description, links his disappearance to "Ties to the Penn State investigation. Ties to the Pizza Bomber Bank Robbery Case in Erie Pennsylvania. Secret hypnotic drug. " It is self published, but read the review.

Amazon.com

Thanks for the laugh this morning, I needed it. Read his biography on Amazon, it's good for another laugh.

 

[fridaybaker]

I've always thought that RFG was the victim of foul play. However, I now have some reservations. It would seem that some of his behavior in the days/weeks leading up to the disappearance could play into a "walked away from his life" scenario: People reported him being "off" (my words) in that time leading up to the disappearance and the talk about "wiping a hard drive". The first for obvious reasons, such as being regretful and torn about leaving one's family and friends, etc., and the wishing to wipe the hard drive because he simply didn't want all his personal information (maybe some information about planning the disappearance, even) read when it was found after he ditched it.

Some questions, though: Would the daughter be aware of the true situation? If not, would he really be willing to leave everyone -including her? Leave them in the dark? Also, how and where did he go? I've read before that it's extremely difficult these days to completely disappear forever.

I suppose the situation could be that RFG was planning to "walk away", but met with foul play instead. This would maybe explain why he hasn't been found dead or alive. Buy why? What would be the motive? Simply robbery? Had he ditched the laptop as part of preparation for his planned walk-away act, and then person/people who were supposed to help him disappear double-crossed him, so to speak and did him in? There are so many ways to hide a body.

Sorry if this is a jumbled post. Just thinking about how he's never been seen again. So odd.

 

[Betty P]

I've always thought that RFG was the victim of foul play. However, I now have some reservations. It would seem that some of his behavior in the days/weeks leading up to the disappearance could play into a "walked away from his life" scenario: People reported him being "off" (my words) in that time leading up to the disappearance and the talk about "wiping a hard drive". The first for obvious reasons, such as being regretful and torn about leaving one's family and friends, etc., and the wishing to wipe the hard drive because he simply didn't want all his personal information (maybe some information about planning the disappearance, even) read when it was found after he ditched it.

Some questions, though: Would the daughter be aware of the true situation? If not, would he really be willing to leave everyone -including her? Leave them in the dark? Also, how and where did he go? I've read before that it's extremely difficult these days to completely disappear forever.

I suppose the situation could be that RFG was planning to "walk away", but met with foul play instead. This would maybe explain why he hasn't been found dead or alive. Buy why? What would be the motive? Simply robbery? Had he ditched the laptop as part of preparation for his planned walk-away act, and then person/people who were supposed to help him disappear double-crossed him, so to speak and did him in? There are so many ways to hide a body.

Sorry if this is a jumbled post. Just thinking about how he's never been seen again. So odd.

It's a reasonable argument, JMO.

IF, he walked away:

• It had to be something really serious to make him run, something problematic. He was leaving his daughter and girlfriend behind, along with many good friends.
• He was only months from early retirement with savings in the bank and a good pension. He would have been free to go wherever he wanted to start a new life. So why do it secretly just a few months early?
• Agree, if he was going to "walk away" for a while, he may have wanted to destroy the hard drive on his computer just because of personal information. But he could have done that without taking such drastic steps.
• If he went through the show of hanging out in Lewisburg and dumping his laptop and hard drive from the nearby bridge, was he doing that to make it look like he committed suicide?
• Agree, its not that easy these days for people to permanently disappear, unless they're living in a hut in the middle of the jungle.

The big elephant in the room was his work on the early investigation into the child sex abuse scandal at Penn State. There was solid evidence and concerned parents coming from the social worker and families from the start.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Some questions, though: Would the daughter be aware of the true situation? If not, would he really be willing to leave everyone -including her? Leave them in the dark? Also, how and where did he go? I've read before that it's extremely difficult these days to completely disappear forever.

I suppose the situation could be that RFG was planning to "walk away", but met with foul play instead. This would maybe explain why he hasn't been found dead or alive. Buy why? What would be the motive? Simply robbery? Had he ditched the laptop as part of preparation for his planned walk-away act, and then person/people who were supposed to help him disappear double-crossed him, so to speak and did him in? There are so many ways to hide a body.

Snipped for emphasis only.

If RFG had told LG or PEF of a plan to walk away, he would have put them in legal jeopardy. It was clear that, at some point, LG would have to petition to have him declared dead. If RFG told her, or contacted her, prior to that point, she would have committed fraud and perjury. I would hope that he would have never put his daughter in that situation.

Any person who would have helped him would likely have been very close, personally and geographically, and trustworthy.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Betty P, there is another financial elephant in the room. He could have been hiding assets in his 2001 divorce. If they were sequestered overseas, he would have substantially more difficulties getting them back in after 9/11.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Here is the timeline for RFG's change in demeanor:

I have heard that some people noticed it as much as a fortnight earlier, but I have no documentation of it.

March 8, 2005 RFG was being interviewed by then CDT political reporter Mike Joseph (The Thin Man), about the upcoming election for DA. Gricar indicated that he was supporting Michael T. Madeira (MTM), a Republican, who was elected in the fall. Joseph asked about JKA, who had just filed petitions to be on the ballot for the Democratic nomination.

Joseph wrote: "I was surprised that the question seemed to stun Gricar, or at least to leave him at a loss. He had been so fluid with his answers about the spring primary. But when asked to look beyond that, he stumbled in getting his toughts into words and never really came up with a coherent answer. The difference was remarkable."

March 9, 2005 RFG was at a meeting with then President Judge Charles Brown and then Criminal Court Administrator Carolyn Spotts. They were attempting to schedule a murder trial. Spotts said, "It just seemed that Ray wasn't with it. He was just looking around, which kind of shocked me because this was a death-penalty case."

Brown ask about an October scheduling. Spotts said, "Ray just turned and looked at the bookcases. "He didn't even look at the judge when he said it. He just said, 'I won't be here,' "

[October 9 was RFG's birthday and he usually took a vacation to New England around that time.]

c. March 28. PEF noted that RFG was napping more. After several weeks, she suggested that he see a doctor.

c. April 11, 2005 JKA describes RFG as being "distraught," starting at this point.

April 14, 2005 People at the Prison Board meeting describe RG as mumbling answers and staring out the window.

April 16, 2005 DZ calls JKA to ask if she has seen RFG. She tells DZ (upon request) that RFG was "distraught" over the last week. DZ says, "...everyone is telling me the same thing."

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Time line on the hard drive

c. 2003 : County issues RFG the laptop.

January 2004: RFG announces he will not be running for reelection in 2005. Indicates that he will not be seeking another office nor joining a law firm.

Later in 2004: RFG gets erasure hardware. Also talks to public defender Deborah Lux about how to erase data. May also have asked coworkers.

c. Christmas 2004: RFG gets home desktop computer.

March or April 2005: RFG does computer searches on the desktop for "water damage to a notebook computer,"how to fry a hard drive" and similar searches.

4/15 and/or 4/16/05: At least one witness sees RFG in the Mini, "fiddling" with a laptop.

Sunday, 4/17/05: Police go to the house to get desktop. PEF asks them if they want the laptop as well. She goes to retrieve it, finds that the case is there, but is empty. Everything else is there, i.e. power cord.

April 18-22: Police check the office for the laptop. It is publicly revealed to be missing on 4/21 or 4/22.

7/30/05: Fishermen find laptop on the north side of the bridge in Lewisburg. Serial numbers match county records for the one RFG issued. Hard drive is missing.

8/05: Media reports of hard drive found. Hard drive does not match the one for the computer.

9/05: Hard drive discovered in river bed by a woman skipping stones with child. It is the type that fits the laptop, but has no separate recorded serial number.

10/05: LE reveals discovery of drive, sent it to the FBI.

12/05: LE announces FBI cannot recover data.

10-11/06: Possibly as part of the PSP-CSI review of the case, RFG's home computer "hard drive" searches discovered. Not publicly release.

07/1-7/4/08 "Dueling press conferences." McKnight/Buhner vs. MTM/Pa District Attorney Association. MTM takes Buehner suggestion and send hard drive to Kroll.

10/08 MTM reports that Kroll cannot recover the data. Also reveals that RFG had purchased erasure software and had asked others how to get rid of the data on the laptop.

4/15/09 LE announces that RFG had done the searches on his home desktop.

 

[Betty P]

Time line on the hard drive

c. 2003 : County issues RFG the laptop.

January 2004: RFG announces he will not be running for reelection in 2005. Indicates that he will not be seeking another office nor joining a law firm.

Later in 2004: RFG gets erasure hardware. Also talks to public defender Deborah Lux about how to erase data. May also have asked coworkers.

c. Christmas 2004: RFG gets home desktop computer.

March or April 2005: RFG does computer searches on the desktop for "water damage to a notebook computer,"how to fry a hard drive" and similar searches.

4/15 and/or 4/16/05: At least one witness sees RFG in the Mini, "fiddling" with a laptop.

Sunday, 4/17/05: Police go to the house to get desktop. PEF asks them if they want the laptop as well. She goes to retrieve it, finds that the case is there, but is empty. Everything else is there, i.e. power cord.

April 18-22: Police check the office for the laptop. It is publicly revealed to be missing on 4/21 or 4/22.

7/30/05: Fishermen find laptop on the north side of the bridge in Lewisburg. Serial numbers match county records for the one RFG issued. Hard drive is missing.

8/05: Media reports of hard drive found. Hard drive does not match the one for the computer.

9/05: Hard drive discovered in river bed by a woman skipping stones with child. It is the type that fits the laptop, but has no separate recorded serial number.

10/05: LE reveals discovery of drive, sent it to the FBI.

12/05: LE announces FBI cannot recover data.

10-11/06: Possibly as part of the PSP-CSI review of the case, RFG's home computer "hard drive" searches discovered. Not publicly release.

07/1-7/4/08 "Dueling press conferences." McKnight/Buhner vs. MTM/Pa District Attorney Association. MTM takes Buehner suggestion and send hard drive to Kroll.

10/08 MTM reports that Kroll cannot recover the data. Also reveals that RFG had purchased erasure software and had asked others how to get rid of the data on the laptop.

4/15/09 LE announces that RFG had done the searches on his home desktop.

So Ray did have a home computer. Nothing very suspicious was found on it other than searches to find how to destroy data on a hard drive. If he were involved in any nefarious activity, it would have been found on his home computer, not his work computer.

If he was planning to disappear and throw his laptop into the river, why was he fiddling with it?

If he was going to disappear, why not dispose of the laptop and hard drive in a spot farther along in his travels? Why dispose of it in the place where he told his girlfriend he was visiting?

If he was going to disappear, why is there no record of cash withdrawals to pay for airline tickets, purchase or rental of another car, etc? Why no record of him making internet searches on how to disappear, get fake IDs, etc? Why didn’t he take any extra clothing or personal items? If he was using some cash from a mysterious overseas account, how did he pay for anything in the days after he left? It’s not as though the money could magically appear from overseas into cash in his hands. Disappearing isnt as easy as most think in the days of the internet, digital transactions and forensic accounting.

Im not sure how to interpret the quotes about him being distracted or distressed. There’s little or no context.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

So Ray did have a home computer. Nothing very suspicious was found on it other than searches to find how to destroy data on a hard drive. If he were involved in any nefarious activity, it would have been found on his home computer, not his work computer.

If he was planning to disappear and throw his laptop into the river, why was he fiddling with it?

If he was going to disappear, why not dispose of the laptop and hard drive in a spot farther along in his travels? Why dispose of it in the place where he told his girlfriend he was visiting?

If he was going to disappear, why is there no record of cash withdrawals to pay for airline tickets, purchase or rental of another car, etc? Why no record of him making internet searches on how to disappear, get fake IDs, etc? Why didn’t he take any extra clothing or personal items? If he was using some cash from a mysterious overseas account, how did he pay for anything in the days after he left? It’s not as though the money could magically appear from overseas into cash in his hands. Disappearing isnt as easy as most think in the days of the internet, digital transactions and forensic accounting.

Im not sure how to interpret the quotes about him being distracted or distressed. There’s little or no context.

We don't really know what else was on the home computer.

The "fiddling" could have been to either download data, do a final erasure, and/or remove the drive.

If the laptop, which did have a label showing it was county property, was found in, let's say, the Southfield area, that would be a good indication he was there.

RFG did have an unknown bank account, and could have had things like a car made by a straw purchaser. BTW: There was no known forensic audit.

I list it as a change in RFG's general demeanor beginning about 6-7 weeks prior to his disappearance.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What about the Ex wife? The GF and the daughter were polygraphed but what I see is right in front of us here. He maybe sued?? By who the ex wife?? He is in legal stuff with who??? The ex wife… My question is who would gain from his disappearance? If the answer is the ex wife then I would say prime suspect. And she surely wouldn’t do it herself.. and also probably knows his routine could even be tracking his car. You never know but unless their divorce is old news and already completely settled and she had nothing to gain…. You get my drift

Welcome.

RFG was under the county's blanket liability insurance policy, so there was nothing job related regarding a suit.

EG, the second ex wife would not gain anything financially. The divorce was finalized on 7/30/01 and their house was sold sometime that year.

My understanding is that his daughter, LG, and PEF were beneficiaries for his pension, which was large, since he never claimed it. BG was his first ex wife and LG's mother.