PA PA - District Attorney Ray Gricar Mysteriously Disappeared - Bellefonte 15 April 2005 #18

[Betty P]

With Ray being 60 and about to retire, any insight on why he would plan a disappearance instead of just telling people the truth? Why not just come clean that you want to move out of PA and don't see a future with Patty? I tend to think he left on his own accord because he was intimidated by someone (s). He needed his destination to be confidential and his disappearance to be a complete mystery. He wanted people to ponder the possibility of foul play or suicide..this would benefit him. There's probably one person he trusted with this..I'm sure he needed a new identity, passport, funds, transportation, ect. and would need help pulling this off.

It's a lot of work, not an undertaking someone would take on a whim or an excuse to break up with a girlfriend. JMO, doing the disappearing act (which is extremely difficult to do, even 20 yrs ago) is probably the least likely scenario. Maybe a threat to his or his family's life, or risk of imprisonment for some crime. He had no personal financial obligations to escape from.

 

[Betty P]

I don't believe Ray destroyed it. Having looked up how to destroy a hard drive doesn't mean that he did it or that he intended to do it. I've looked it up just to see how fragile a hard drive might be. Ray may have wondered how easy it would be for someone else to destroy evidence on his hard drive.

That's an interesting angle. What if he were investigating something or someone and was concerned the hard drive would be erased? Really, all he would need to do is make a back-up copy and store it someplace secure, like a safe deposit box. Maybe there was a reason he couldn't do that?

 

[Sweetluv]

Why would Ray bring his laptop with him if he was just going for a drive?
The laptop/hard drive was water destroyed, but the phone left in the car..was this his personal cell or work issued?

 

[Betty P]

Why would Ray bring his laptop with him if he was just going for a drive?
The laptop/hard drive was water destroyed, but the phone left in the car..was this his personal cell or work issued?

Personal cell.

 

[Black Diamond]

I don't believe Ray destroyed it. Having looked up how to destroy a hard drive doesn't mean that he did it or that he intended to do it. I've looked it up just to see how fragile a hard drive might be. Ray may have wondered how easy it would be for someone else to destroy evidence on his hard drive.

It’s possible someone else destroyed it. However, there are several major coincidences if that’s the case. I’m convinced Ray destroyed it.
1. Ray searched the internet for how to wreck a hard drive and water damage to a notebook computer a few months earlier.
2. Ray brought the laptop with him that day. He would have needed to plug it in to a hard line to use internet in 2005 (no WiFi.) Bringing the work laptop with him on a day off to actually use it for something doesn’t make much sense.
3. The hard drive was found a stone’s throw from a location that Ray was seen alone and in plain view, and the laptop was found maybe 3 stone’s throws from the location he was seen alone and in plain view.
4. Had someone took or been given Ray’s laptop in Lewisburg, it makes little sense to dispose of the hard drive and laptop so close to a location that Ray was that day. Why dispose in locations where someone could have seen the disposals taking place instead of driving to a more discreet location to do it?

 

[Black Diamond]

Added note of clarification on my last Post. I’m sure WiFi probably existed in 2005, but it sure wasn’t common enough that you could pull into a parking lot somewhere and get online with a laptop.

 

[OddOneOut]

3. The hard drive was found a stone’s throw from a location that Ray was seen alone and in plain view, and the laptop was found maybe 3 stone’s throws from the location he was seen alone and in plain view.
4. Had someone took or been given Ray’s laptop in Lewisburg, it makes little sense to dispose of the hard drive and laptop so close to a location that Ray was that day. Why dispose in locations where someone could have seen the disposals taking place instead of driving to a more discreet location to do it?

I agree with most of this; except, if Ray wanted to destroy it why would he do it where would likely be found easily. Also, as an accountant, my hard drives are full of sensitive information on a lot of people so I checked into destroying them by dropping them in water. I was told this could not be relied on to destroy the information. I was told the only reliable way was to use special software that would make the information unrecoverable.

 

[Black Diamond]

I agree with most of this; except, if Ray wanted to destroy it why would he do it where would likely be found easily. Also, as an accountant, my hard drives are full of sensitive information on a lot of people so I checked into destroying them by dropping them in water. I was told this could not be relied on to destroy the information. I was told the only reliable way was to use special software that would make the information unrecoverable.

It is a good question why would he (or someone) destroy it there when it could have been done some other way to ensure nobody ever found it. Since the hard drive was removed it’s clear that someone (Ray IMO) didn't want the data accessed.

I wonder if he used wiping software? Data on the hard drive was deemed unrecoverable. It may not be known even by the police if just the water damage is the culprit or if it’s a combination of the two.

 

[OddOneOut]

It is a good question why would he (or someone) destroy it there when it could have been done some other way to ensure nobody ever found it. Since the hard drive was removed it’s clear that someone (Ray IMO) didn't want the data accessed.

I wonder if he used wiping software? Data on the hard drive was deemed unrecoverable. It may not be known even by the police if just the water damage is the culprit or if it’s a combination of the two.

Another question is did Ray copy the hard drive to something else before the original was destroyed (by Ray or someone else)? Portable hard drives are easy to get. I'm not a computer person but as an accountant I easily used them to back up files. If he thought someone might get his computer, he might have wanted the information safe somewhere else.

 

[Black Diamond]

Personal cell.

I think this is incorrect. I thought it was his work cell that was left in the car.

 

[Betty P]

I think this is incorrect. I thought it was his work cell that was left in the car.

I'll go check. I'm following too many cases these days.

It's referred to as his cell phone. His phone records indicate he only had one cell phone. The laptop belonged to the county.

The investigation looked at phone records for his home land line, his cell and his office land line.

 

[minazoe]

3 numbers with zero call analysis and like a bunch of calls on the 15th , stand out to me. of course I don't really know what I'm looking at ..has anyone broken this down? why did they decline to analyze the 3 other numbers involved?
Didn't they want to find Ray at all costs? just asking. mOO

 

[Betty P]

3 numbers with zero call analysis and like a bunch of calls on the 15th , stand out to me. of course I don't really know what I'm looking at ..has anyone broken this down? why did they decline to analyze the 3 other numbers involved?
Didn't they want to find Ray at all costs? just asking. mOO

Which other 3 numbers?

 

[Daisy1980]

The bunch of calls of the 15th are mostly patty calling his cell.

I don’t see any indication patty called her brother from the house line. Did she have a cell?

Did anyone else try to reach ray on his cell on the 15th/16th that isn’t shown here? I feel like it would be normal even in 2005 for coworkers/pattys brother to try his cell too. Or maybe it had shut off by then?

Also what the heck are the last 3 calls checking voicemail?

 

[Betty P]

The bunch of calls of the 15th are mostly patty calling his cell.

I don’t see any indication patty called her brother from the house line. Did she have a cell?

Did anyone else try to reach ray on his cell on the 15th/16th that isn’t shown here? I feel like it would be normal even in 2005 for coworkers/pattys brother to try his cell too. Or maybe it had shut off by then?

Also what the heck are the last 3 calls checking voicemail?

The SW probably only covered calls to or from Ray, not to anyone else. ICBW, but I sometimes get the feeling the investigation into Ray's disappearance looked for evidence through a narrow scope at times.

I'm also noting here, again, that two reliable witnesses observed Ray walking back and forth on the sidewalk in front of the museum near his car, a little after lunch time. He was talking to someone on a cell phone. Those cell phone calls don't appear on his phone record. I assume Ray was using a burner phone or one provided to him by someone else.

JMO

 

[Black Diamond]

The SW probably only covered calls to or from Ray, not to anyone else. ICBW, but I sometimes get the feeling the investigation into Ray's disappearance looked for evidence through a narrow scope at times.

I'm also noting here, again, that two reliable witnesses observed Ray walking back and forth on the sidewalk in front of the museum near his car, a little after lunch time. He was talking to someone on a cell phone. Those cell phone calls don't appear on his phone record. I assume Ray was using a burner phone or one provided to him by someone else.

JMO

The lady at the Packwood House, Jennifer Snyder, said Ray could have been talking on a cell phone. She was not sure. I never saw any statements of someone saying they for sure saw him on a phone in Lewisburg.

 

[Black Diamond]

The bunch of calls of the 15th are mostly patty calling his cell.

I don’t see any indication patty called her brother from the house line. Did she have a cell?

Did anyone else try to reach ray on his cell on the 15th/16th that isn’t shown here? I feel like it would be normal even in 2005 for coworkers/pattys brother to try his cell too. Or maybe it had shut off by then?

Also what the heck are the last 3 calls checking voicemail?

I assume the UNK in the evening was Patty calling her brother and the call to the 800 Centre county number then a redacted state college number calling Rays cell around midnight was Patty calling the police then them trying to call Rays cell.

The three calls to voicemail at the end clearly were after the police located his car, so woulda had to be them attempting to check his voicemail when they found his phone.

Some of the calls earlier in the week, and lack of calls, are more interesting to me than the calls on 4/15 and 4/16.

 

[OddOneOut]

I'm also noting here, again, that two reliable witnesses observed Ray walking back and forth on the sidewalk in front of the museum near his car, a little after lunch time. He was talking to someone on a cell phone. Those cell phone calls don't appear on his phone record. I assume Ray was using a burner phone or one provided to him by someone else.

JMO

Sounds like he could have been waiting for someone?

 

[Betty P]

Sounds like he could have been waiting for someone?

That’s the way it sounds to me. For whatever reason, he seemed to have been using a burner phone that day.

I assume the UNK in the evening was Patty calling her brother and the call to the 800 Centre county number then a redacted state college number calling Rays cell around midnight was Patty calling the police then them trying to call Rays cell.

The three calls to voicemail at the end clearly were after the police located his car, so woulda had to be them attempting to check his voicemail when they found his phone.

Some of the calls earlier in the week, and lack of calls, are more interesting to me than the calls on 4/15 and 4/16.

Agree. It would be interesting to know the context of some of those earlier calls.

 

[OddOneOut]

That’s the way it sounds to me. For whatever reason, he seemed to have been using a burner phone that day.

Agree. It would be interesting to know the context of some of those earlier calls.

I think I read in another post that records of other calls made or received in that area was no longer available? Having those records could change everything.