Identified! PA - Philadelphia - 'Boy in the Box' - 4UMPA - Feb'57 - Joseph Augustus Zarelli #4

[Ms Suzanne]

I provided the lead. Was then invited to a Vidocq meeting. The timeline of my leads' (the child) birth and death don't match up to JAZ, but measurements of JAZ and my Phila lead in 1957 are very similar. Anyone that needed to cover up this death, could have altered the dates. I don't know of any details of the current investigation.

Hi Thank You. May I please ask you what your lead in 1957 was?

 

[Toots1]

Hi Thank You. May I please ask you what your lead in 1957 was?

Someone died in my family at an early age from Philadelphia. Had developmental issues, and one of the primary care takers left the household in 1957.

 

[EmiliaRT007]

I SQUEALED in excitement when Joseph was finally identified. I thought he may never be identified since it had already been 65 years, there was no way they could get any DNA from him. He was dead with a capital D. That DNA is long gone. So glad they got enough from him to identify him. He was just four, a young life taken way too soon. He had his whole life ahead of him, he could’ve started school, then graduated, gone to college, gotten a job, got married, had a family, he could’ve been an astronaut, an engineer, a firefighter, a lawyer, a doctor, a teacher. That is just so, so sad. Just 30 pounds too! Tiny, tiny boy. He endured so much in his short life. I wonder if his parents couldn’t care for him or had a sort of grudge against him because he had special needs or medical issues? He has some evidence of having health problems. He had scars on his groin, leg, and chest from surgery and IVs. I heard somewhere his groin scar is from a hernia.
Maybe he was born prematurely? I’ve heard of premature babies having inguinal hernias. In fact I myself have a similar scar from an inguinal hernia. I was just 12 weeks old when I had the surgery. I was born early at 33 weeks. I do think his parents probably had anger or resentment towards him because of his health problems. They couldn’t care for him, so they just shut down and gave up. This was 1957 so healthcare wasn’t that advanced. There wasn’t much they could do. I wonder how his siblings were treated growing up.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I SQUEALED in excitement when Joseph was finally identified. I thought he may never be identified since it had already been 65 years, there was no way they could get any DNA from him. He was dead with a capital D. That DNA is long gone. So glad they got enough from him to identify him. He was just four, a young life taken way too soon. He had his whole life ahead of him, he could’ve started school, then graduated, gone to college, gotten a job, got married, had a family, he could’ve been an astronaut, an engineer, a firefighter, a lawyer, a doctor, a teacher. That is just so, so sad. Just 30 pounds too! Tiny, tiny boy. He endured so much in his short life. I wonder if his parents couldn’t care for him or had a sort of grudge against him because he had special needs or medical issues? He has some evidence of having health problems. He had scars on his groin, leg, and chest from surgery and IVs. I heard somewhere his groin scar is from a hernia.
Maybe he was born prematurely? I’ve heard of premature babies having inguinal hernias. In fact I myself have a similar scar from an inguinal hernia. I was just 12 weeks old when I had the surgery. I was born early at 33 weeks. I do think his parents probably had anger or resentment towards him because of his health problems. They couldn’t care for him, so they just shut down and gave up. This was 1957 so healthcare wasn’t that advanced. There wasn’t much they could do. I wonder how his siblings were treated growing up.

From what I understand he was given up to a Catholic organization. Likely at birth as in that era that's what was done with a lot of out of wedlock babies. I would run down anything,and everything starting with that organization. Especially in light of things recently uncovered heinous acts committed by such organizations ie Tuam babies: Excavation at mass grave could begin this year, and https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...ential-school-refuses-share-records-1.6065322. MOO

 

[Springrain]

From what I understand he was given up to a Catholic organization.

I've seen others saying this but I've never seen an approved source? Where is it coming from?

 

[Jerri Blank]

I've seen others saying this but I've never seen an approved source? Where is it coming from?

i don't think this has ever been confirmed. i fear the longer they go without revealing more details, the more fact and rumor and theory will mix and joseph's story will get lost.

 

[CCJD]

I've seen others saying this but I've never seen an approved source? Where is it coming from?

Not crazy about the DM but the Philly Inquirer has a paywall (link to PI in this article).

It's not a fact - it's what the family believes.

"Family members believe that the boy was put up for adoption through a Catholic organization shortly after his birth."

Parents of Philly's 'boy in the box' are finally revealed

The parents of Philadelphia's 'Boy in the Box' have finally been revealed, 65 years after he was found murdered, as a Pennsylvania construction magnate and a 'beautiful, kind and quiet' woman.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Not crazy about the DM but the Philly Inquirer has a paywall (link to PI in this article).

It's not a fact - it's what the family believes.

"Family members believe that the boy was put up for adoption through a Catholic organization shortly after his birth."

Parents of Philly's 'boy in the box' are finally revealed

The parents of Philadelphia's 'Boy in the Box' have finally been revealed, 65 years after he was found murdered, as a Pennsylvania construction magnate and a 'beautiful, kind and quiet' woman.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Thank You.

 

[beubeubeu]

Not crazy about the DM but the Philly Inquirer has a paywall (link to PI in this article).

It's not a fact - it's what the family believes.

"Family members believe that the boy was put up for adoption through a Catholic organization shortly after his birth."

Parents of Philly's 'boy in the box' are finally revealed

The parents of Philadelphia's 'Boy in the Box' have finally been revealed, 65 years after he was found murdered, as a Pennsylvania construction magnate and a 'beautiful, kind and quiet' woman.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Family members may believe anything they
a) like,
b) prefer,
c) were told,
d) assummed as the most logical step to take in such circumstances,
e) heard as done with similar circumstances
While the actual truth may be known to just one person, likely not even the mother but someone who pushed removing Joseph from the picture for the appearance's sake - if that person cared to be interested in his fate.

And excuse me, but people concerned with appearances but caring were, back in the day notorious with pulling the trick with pretending that kid is mother's sibling or niece/nephew and keeping the child in family, often even reuniting with birth mother few years later. It didn't happen, also no legal adoption.
So they either didn't care at all, or the more influential members of the family made it impossible for others, especially the mother, to care - by giving or selling him to whoever while feeding the others with the most convenient excuse of their choice.

 

[Susikatze]

Family members may believe anything they
a) like,
b) prefer,
c) were told,
d) assummed as the most logical step to take in such circumstances,
e) heard as done with similar circumstances
While the actual truth may be known to just one person, likely not even the mother but someone who pushed removing Joseph from the picture for the appearance's sake - if that person cared to be interested in his fate.

And excuse me, but people concerned with appearances but caring were, back in the day notorious with pulling the trick with pretending that kid is mother's sibling or niece/nephew and keeping the child in family, often even reuniting with birth mother few years later. It didn't happen, also no legal adoption.
So they either didn't care at all, or the more influential members of the family made it impossible for others, especially the mother, to care - by giving or selling him to whoever while feeding the others with the most convenient excuse of their choice.

You are implying the bio fathers family did it.
I think there is absolutely no evidence for that, not even if he knew he had fathered a child, let alone his extended family.

There is actually way more to the theory the mother (or maybe stepdad) did it, fingerprints on jaz forehead are smaller, as if done by a female, his half sister was born shortly before he was killed and he was found in a bassinet box for a recently purchased bassinet. Postpartum or peripartum depression or psychosis can do a lot to a mother. Also Mary was considered a "fallen" girl, having had 3 out of wedlock children by 3 different men within the scope of 6 years. I do not know whether the last one ever married her, there are no marriage records. Maybe he eventually did, as him and Mary had more children and i think in her obit he is referred to as her husband. He seemed to still be legally married to his first wife at the time Mary got pregnant with JAZ half sister. This too can take a toll on a womans mental health, uncertainty, another man who may or may not marry her and her struggling to make a living, with two illegitimate kids in tow (after having adopted out another), living in basically a slum apartment complex.

I would love one of the half siblings chime in and set our records straight because we may have not found correct records and records are limited. Of course they know nothing about JAZ, but they may know more about their mom Mary and their father and their overall living conditions in the 1950s.

In the end we do not know anything at all. He may have indeed been fostered either privately or via some organization. It is likely because Mary had already adopted her first child out, so why would she have kept the second?

Jmoo very much

 

[beubeubeu]

You are implying the bio fathers family did it.

No, I wasn't implying bio father's family.
I pretty much expressed my exact thoughts.
Those thoughts are that mothers of illegitimate children were usually the last to have anything to say about the child's fate.

 

[Susikatze]

That is true, birth mothers had very little say about the fate of their out of wedlock children. But birth fathers were normally even less (or not at all) involved in any foster/adoption processes.

But this was not Marys first out of wedlock child. She had some experience with what happens. Honestly, i do not fully believe, JAZ was with his mom, she worked at the cinema and must have had some help with him. I believe it may have been some inofficial foster situation. From mom to an aunt to a friend of the aunt to another friend and so on. Mom eventually lost track or was not interested much to open up old scandals since after the 3rd out of wedlock kid from the 3rd man within 6 years, she finally felt he is the one to marry her. Look at biographies of former foster kids in the 40s and 50s. Marilyn Monroe was probably the most famous of them all. Had very little contact to her birth mom and went from one foster to the next.

 

[beubeubeu]

That is true, birth mothers had very little say about the fate of their out of wedlock children. But birth fathers were normally even less (or not at all) involved in any foster/adoption processes.

But this was not Marys first out of wedlock child. She had some experience with what happens. Honestly, i do not fully believe, JAZ was with his mom, she worked at the cinema and must have had some help with him. I believe it may have been some inofficial foster situation. From mom to an aunt to a friend of the aunt to another friend and so on. Mom eventually lost track or was not interested much to open up old scandals since after the 3rd out of wedlock kid from the 3rd man within 6 years, she finally felt he is the one to marry her. Look at biographies of former foster kids in the 40s and 50s. Marilyn Monroe was probably the most famous of them all. Had very little contact to her birth mom and went from one foster to the next.

Cause they were notorious for leaving the pregnant girl (or woman) alone.
And if they were the ones to believe - as those blissfully unaware of the fact that they fathered the child - then we can indicate that maybe one in few hundred unmarried pregnant women who ended up alone decided to tell the fathers about the pregnancy - and that from those who were told, basically not single one of them walked away leaving them with no support. They would never do such a thing, cause they were all decent men, unlike the women who were bullied mercilessly and openly abused by anyone who felt like doing it.

I saw some people who knew Joseph's mother were describing her as beautiful, good, polite, lovely and so on. And she wasn't doing well in life. Aggressive, abusive and manipulative people are usually doing pretty well - JMO. Maybe their descriptions were inaccurate, and possibly my impressions are wrong, but girls like that were ending up with unwed pregnancies almost exclusively cause they were preyed on by guys who lied their a. off to get sex from them, or assaulted.

Family of the Joseph's father are describing such lovely, hard working, honest family man and I have no reason to doubt them, but also have some issues with figuring out why would such a guy ended up uninterested in his child and in supporting his mother if he ever had feelings for her. Similar issued with trying to see her reasoning for not telling him, as she was in pretty desperate situation.
Well, possibly someone learned about the pregnancy before she had a chance to tell him and in some way made it impossible for her to tell him.

Btw. I don't get that:

fingerprints on jaz forehead are smaller, as if done by a female

It gets repeated over and over in retellings of this case.
What woman has fingers this small? I see tiny fingerprints on tiny head of 4 year old.
For me those are not bruises left by small fingers of a woman but small fingers of a kid. Like bunch of kids with some adults blessing and significant involvement were abusing little Joseph till they killed him.

 

[non_ducor_duco_]

Not crazy about the DM but the Philly Inquirer has a paywall (link to PI in this article).

It's not a fact - it's what the family believes.

"Family members believe that the boy was put up for adoption through a Catholic organization shortly after his birth."

Parents of Philly's 'boy in the box' are finally revealed

The parents of Philadelphia's 'Boy in the Box' have finally been revealed, 65 years after he was found murdered, as a Pennsylvania construction magnate and a 'beautiful, kind and quiet' woman.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I know that if he had been formally, legally adopted there would be court/legal documents/records supporting that, but in the 1950’s was there any sort of paper trail at time of surrender but prior to adoption?

I really don’t want to believe that investigators know for a fact that he was given up and haven’t said so - these families have been through a lot. And I’m a little surprised that no one has come forward publicly remembering his mother having him in her care. It was a long time ago but it wasn’t that long ago.

 

[summergirl1]

Marilyn Monroe's mother actually attempted to keep her at various points, although she was an out of wedlock child with no father in the picture. But her mother had serious mental health issues and couldn't support herself after a certain point, much less raise a child, so Marilyn ended up in foster care, an orphanage, etc. Marilyn's mother was a divorced single mom who had remarried ( to a man that wasn't Marilyn's father) so she was in a somewhat different situation than say Joseph's mother was. She put the name of her absent husband who she was in the process of divorcing or was even divorced from on the birth certificate although he wasn't Marilyn's father and he wasn't in the picture. So her situation was different in that sense than Joseph's mother.

Someone who had never been married like Joseph's mother keeping their illegitimate child in that era( even if the child spent time in foster facilities due to the mother having trouble taking care of the child) wasn't common. Possibly it was more common or less paid attention to in urban areas like LA in the 1920s or Philadelphia in the 1950s, but still. It is definitely possible that Joseph's demise had something to do with some foster care situation though. Joseph's father seems to have had no idea that he even existed and that isn't surprising.

 

[scruffydog]

No, I wasn't implying bio father's family.
I pretty much expressed my exact thoughts.
Those thoughts are that mothers of illegitimate children were usually the last to have anything to say about the child's fate.

You know-I keep seeing this about women having no control of what happens to their illegitimate children----she was not a teenager if my memory serves me correctly. We are not talking about a 14 year old mother whose parents force her to give up a child....

 

[beubeubeu]

You know-I keep seeing this about women having no control of what happens to their illegitimate children----she was not a teenager if my memory serves me correctly. We are not talking about a 14 year old mother whose parents force her to give up a child....

But we're talking about a woman who was stigmatised and branded in particular way by the community as a teenager. Highely likely dealing with several traumatic experiences as well as physical and mental limitations that are coming with pregnancy and post-partum periods.
Being an adult only matters if it comes with some amount of respect and independence, both of which require some source of security and support. Not always financial, not always emotional. Plenty of women were able to deal with a situation of early unwed pregnancy and figure out their way in life as they wanted, no matter the time and environment they lived in. But that's neither coincidence or a thing of personal strenght that today average 21yo woman in US has next to full control over her life while an average Afghan woman has none. Circumstances matter and they matter a lot.

 

[Dot#5t]

It is frustrating that the surviving relative on MA side (JA, her younger brother) is not talking. He was about 12 years old when Joseph was found and later in life actually shared a cab with JJP. I think JA has a real fear that public perception and/or law enforcement would implicate him in this crime or imply he's withholding info and he's gone quiet and deleted his FB account. The angle I'm seeing is JJP leaving his legal wife CAP and kids, and then living with MA in the 61st street walk up after their daughter was born. That time period of JJP entering MA's life and her getting pregnant and pregnancy is ripe with potential for abuse of Joseph. I wish there was more known about JJP and the dynamics in that household for the surviving kids in the years following Joseph's murder. How many heartbreaking cases have we seen here on WS where the new boyfriend/stepdad has abused and murdered their partner's child from a previous relationship?

--- JMLO (Just my long opinion)

 

[Susikatze]

It is frustrating that the surviving relative on MA side (JA, her younger brother) is not talking. He was about 12 years old when Joseph was found and later in life actually shared a cab with JJP. I think JA has a real fear that public perception and/or law enforcement would implicate him in this crime or imply he's withholding info and he's gone quiet and deleted his FB account. The angle I'm seeing is JJP leaving his legal wife CAP and kids, and then living with MA in the 61st street walk up after their daughter was born. That time period of JJP entering MA's life and her getting pregnant and pregnancy is ripe with potential for abuse of Joseph. I wish there was more known about JJP and the dynamics in that household for the surviving kids in the years following Joseph's murder. How many heartbreaking cases have we seen here on WS where the new boyfriend/stepdad has abused and murdered their partner's child from a previous relationship?

--- JMLO (Just my long opinion)

I agree on it. The brother thou, may indeed not have known anything and may have been told JAZ was sent away to foster care or a carehome or whatever. He was a child when JAZ was murdered. He did not live with MA. He likely really does not know much.

And all in all, this whole scenario is not what I would call a stable family situation. MA got pregnant by someone once, gave child up for adoption. Two years later had another child from another man who she kept or did not keep. Then she works at a cinema, hooks up with her married suprrvisor, surprise, gets pregnant again. He leaves his wife and kids and lives with MA to live basically in skid row. Maybe he lived in and out there at the beginning while still partially living with his wife. A lot of potential for tension, crisis and abuse. MA may have been stressed, being now unwed pregnant again, the third time in 6 years, this time from a married man she is struggling to get him to leave his family and move in with her. And there is JAZ, the 4 year old that was never wanted and is from a brief relationship long gone. He takes up space in the small apartment with a baby to come and resources and money and is a reminder of a shameful affair. And the new partner may not accept him.
A lot of potential abuse from either side, either MA or her new lover. It may have been a very brief period of a year or so.

The kids that followed and that are now adults likely never were told about it at all. They legitimately have no idea. All they knew was a stable family life with mom, dad and kids. But nobody told them what happened before.

JmOO very much so

 

[Alleykins]

Here's an interesting article from the NY Post about the Cinderella Effect. I truly believe, based on what we know as of right now, this is what may have possibly happened to Joseph. I'm open to being wrong/corrected as more facts come to light.

The Cinderella Effect explains why stepparents may be a danger to kids

Stepdads are eight times more likely to kill children in their care, compared with genetic parents, according to research published in the journal Violence and Victims. Stepmothers are three times …

nypost.com

Some info from the article

-Evolutionary psychologists believe that humans, like other animals, are programmed to want to look after children who carry their own genes, not someone else’s.
-Stepdads are eight times more likely to kill children in their care, compared with genetic parents, according to research published in the journal Violence and Victims (2004).
-Stepmothers are three times more likely to do the same.
-If one is in thrall to the other, through romantic obsession or dependency, then the biological parent may put their relationship over the well-being of their own child.