PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #5

[J. J. in Phila]

Perhaps some people take stock of what they have done in their lives, and what they have not yet done -- then ask themselves whether it would be worth the cost to break free in order to discover what could still be. Mr. Gricar is smart, handsome and seemingly self assured -- he could go anywhere and make a very nice life for himself. I only hope that if he did, he understood that the pattern of his life would not change unless he was willing to change his approach. What parts of him were repressed, what dreams were unspoken, what distant horizons might he have wistfully hungered for, I wonder. Perhaps if I had known him, I could have surmised it. Surely there are some who knew him on a deeper level, understood his suppressed wants and unfulfilled dreams...or, did he feel no one would support his need to find fresh meaning in the golden years of his life. What caused him to run?

I could come up with several motivations which could explain why someone like Mr. Gricar might choose to vanish. The problem is that any are near complete speculation.

RFG once said, in court, "Motive, your Honor, is something we never have to prove." Without some way to get into his mind, we don't have solid evidence of it.

 

[cloudbuster05]

There was no proof of a well planned for walk away. The ID show even brought this aspect up. Seriously Ray is not allowed in any witness protection program. If Ray walked away Im sure by now he would of contacted Lara and applied for his SSI and pension. There is noway Ray contacted Lara, because she wouldn't be doing the ID show, seriously.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There was no proof of a well planned for walk away. The ID show even brought this aspect up. Seriously Ray is not allowed in any witness protection program. If Ray walked away Im sure by now he would of contacted Lara and applied for his SSI and pension. There is noway Ray contacted Lara, because she wouldn't be doing the ID show, seriously.

There is some evidence, though not strong, that Mr. Gricar acquired another car and was alive on 5/27/05.

I can easily understand why someone leaving wouldn't contact his heirs and next of kin. That person wouldn't his heirs and next of kin to perjure themselves.

 

[cloudbuster05]

JJ the DA Robert B also thinks that Ray met with foul play. Do you know by chance what his scenario is? Thanks

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ the DA Robert B also thinks that Ray met with foul play. Do you know by chance what his scenario is? Thanks

Not really, since we discuss possibilities. He does believe RFG was alive and in Lewisburg on 4/16/05.

 

[arielilane]

It's been great to read everyone's posts.

I have always found it interesting that April 15, is the day he went missing. The day our taxes are due.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It's been great to read everyone's posts.

I have always found it interesting that April 15, is the day he went missing. The day our taxes are due.

Day the Titanic sunk too.

April 15th, in different years, was the time when the action took place in 20/20 Vision.

 

[APIMaple]

There is some evidence, though not strong, that Mr. Gricar acquired another car and was alive on 5/27/05.

I can easily understand why someone leaving wouldn't contact his heirs and next of kin. That person wouldn't his heirs and next of kin to perjure themselves.

Wow, first I've heard of this. What evidence is there of this nature?
Thanks for this interesting tidbit.

 

[cloudbuster05]

Rays scent was only around his mini coopper leading LE to think Ray got into another vechicle. If that was the case and I do believe the dogs, I don't think Ray was anywhere near that parking lot on 4-16-05. If Ray walked away don't you think he would of been long gone? Why risk hanging around 4-16-05? I am a collector of angels, crystals ect. Ray was a collector of antiques. If I was walking away there are certain valuable pieces in my collection that I could not leave behind but yet nothing is reported missing from Rays collection. Ray had a passport and yet its not missing. I honestly do not feel Ray as a DA would break the law and use someones SSI number, or steal their identity. If Ray wanted to leave all he had to do is hand in his resignation and tell Patty it's over. A call could of been made to Lara when he decided to let her know. Ray knew what would happen if he up and left without letting no one know. He hated being in the spot light so why then become a focus of a missing person's case? When he divorced his 2 former wives he simply verbalized his intent. This time he wasn't married so its possible he wanted a new life but there is no planning. You base the May date as possibly having a car and that's based on the Michigan sighting. That man a retired sketch artist cop had seen Rays picture on TV. The majority of eyewitnesses in missing person's cases follow the same patterns. Meaning if you knew how many people I came across that looked like Ray lol.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Wow, first I've heard of this. What evidence is there of this nature?
Thanks for this interesting tidbit.

Southfield, MI, 5/27/05. It was reported in June 2005. The witness was a retire police officer, who was also a composite sketch artist, and his daughter.

The blog on it, with citations, is here:

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/02/14/2518751/southfield-sighting.html

I give it a 50% chance of being him. LE called it "credible."

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Rays scent was only around his mini coopper leading LE to think Ray got into another vechicle. If that was the case and I do believe the dogs, I don't think Ray was anywhere near that parking lot on 4-16-05. If Ray walked away don't you think he would of been long gone? Why risk hanging around 4-16-05? I am a collector of angels, crystals ect. Ray was a collector of antiques. If I was walking away there are certain valuable pieces in my collection that I could not leave behind but yet nothing is reported missing from Rays collection. Ray had a passport and yet its not missing. I honestly do not feel Ray as a DA would break the law and use someones SSI number, or steal their identity. If Ray wanted to leave all he had to do is hand in his resignation and tell Patty it's over. A call could of been made to Lara when he decided to let her know. Ray knew what would happen if he up and left without letting no one know. He hated being in the spot light so why then become a focus of a missing person's case? When he divorced his 2 former wives he simply verbalized his intent. This time he wasn't married so its possible he wanted a new life but there is no planning. You base the May date as possibly having a car and that's based on the Michigan sighting. That man a retired sketch artist cop had seen Rays picture on TV. The majority of eyewitnesses in missing person's cases follow the same patterns. Meaning if you knew how many people I came across that looked like Ray lol.

CB, you are not a cop nor are you a sketch artist. The contact was prolonged, not a fleeting glimpse; the witness spoke to the person.

The circumstances, near a Balkan consulate, near a foreign border, near interstates, and on a day guaranteed to get minimum coverage in the media, even if promptly reported, also strengthened it. It could be coincidence, but good heavens, it is very unlikely.

 

[cloudbuster05]

Wow, first I've heard of this. What evidence is there of this nature?
Thanks for this interesting tidbit.

The date SuperKyle is the date that Ray was seen with a older woman in Michigan (restaurant), by a retired sketch artist cop. The cop saw Ray on Tv as we all have. I think JJ is assuming that from that yet another sighting, Ray had a car. We could say that about the Wilkes Barre sighting, the 4-16-05 sightings. JJ I think your confusing folks, probably just how it sounded when you wrote that. If there was evidence of a car it would of been announced on his 6th anniversary that just passed 4-15-2011. I think some some are misunderstanding that.

 

[cloudbuster05]

CB, you are not a cop nor are you a sketch artist. The contact was prolonged, not a fleeting glimpse; the witness spoke to the person.

The circumstances, near a Balkan consulate, near a foreign border, near interstates, and on a day guaranteed to get minimum coverage in the media, even if promptly reported, also strengthened it. It could be coincidence, but good heavens, it is very unlikely.

JJ near a border doesn't mean anything because Ray's passport remained at Patty's, where he lived. JJ that's two cops as witnesses. If they believed he was Ray Gricar then why in the world wouldn't they have followed him when he left? Why did they wait to call? IMO they may have had doubts, that would explain why wait to call. Also Patty said he had no ties to Michigan as reported.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ near a border doesn't mean anything because Ray's passport remained at Patty's, where he lived. JJ that's two cops as witnesses. If they believed he was Ray Gricar then why in the world wouldn't they have followed him when he left? Why did they wait to call? IMO they may have had doubts, that would explain why wait to call. Also Patty said he had no ties to Michigan as reported.

You assume that if RFG wanted to disappear under a different identity, he'd take a passport. That is a strange assumption.

The first cop didn't even know that he was missing at the time. The second, a retired officer, didn't recognize him, but though he knew him from someplace. It wasn't until that evening, when he saw a repeat of a news show on RFG that he recognized him.

The proximity to the border and the Macedonian Consulate provide the "ties" to the area.

The only question that I have is if the witness was accurate. If so, the mystery might be solved.

 

[cloudbuster05]

No JJ my point is his passport was at home and stealing someone's identity to obtain another passport is breaking the law. You can't cross the Canadian border without at least a birth certificate back then and his was at home. Being near a border without means to cross it is useless but yet you assume because he was near a border, that sighting is more crediable when its not. That retired officer knew they was looking for him by way of TV, not by personally knowing Ray. Weirdly they disregarded as Tony indicated the only sighting of a woman who worked with Ray. Im talking about the sighting behind the courthouse 4-15-2005. It was not taken seriously even though CFenton worked there.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

No JJ my point is his passport was at home and stealing someone's identity to obtain another passport is breaking the law.

First, if he was leaving US jurisdiction, why would he care?

Second, I'm not sure it would break any law. He wasn't trying to defraud anyone and he can call himself anything he want to.

You can't cross the Canadian border without at least a birth certificate back then and his was at home. Being near a border without means to cross it is useless but yet you assume because he was near a border, that sighting is more crediable when its not.

You didn't need one in 2005. It's more than just the border, as I've indicated.

That retired officer knew they was looking for him by way of TV, not by personally knowing Ray.

And? If you look at someone for a long period of time, and if you are trained observer of faces on top of that, personally knowing the person before that isn't relevant.

Weirdly they disregarded as Tony indicated the only sighting of a woman who worked with Ray. Im talking about the sighting behind the courthouse 4-15-2005. It was not taken seriously even though CFenton worked there.

Don't confuse the two sightings. I think that one might deserve another look, or at least the tapes of both 4/14 and 4/15, all day, might.

 

[cloudbuster05]

CB, you are not a cop nor are you a sketch artist. The contact was prolonged, not a fleeting glimpse; the witness spoke to the person.

The circumstances, near a Balkan consulate, near a foreign border, near interstates, and on a day guaranteed to get minimum coverage in the media, even if promptly reported, also strengthened it. It could be coincidence, but good heavens, it is very unlikely.

If that sighting was Ray then why didn't he just block his phone number and say "Im alive stop looking for me"?
What would Ray run from?
His character of running just to run is not fitting.
Where is his means of support?
No one leaves a pension and $100.000 behind in savings. Also why leave out his SSI and his health insurance?
He didn't have a second job to save funds from. They say his finances was done and checked out as ID show stated.
Everything seems to be right in a state of when he disappeared on 4-15-2005.
The only difference is that its 6 years later and yet no Ray. In this day and age and still no Ray?

 

[cloudbuster05]

Just to set the record straight JJ, Im not confused nor have I ever been. Im just pointing out that nothing's in stone yet. I just think earlier the way you put Ray had a car in May is confusing others. You have corrected it, thanks!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If that sighting was Ray then why didn't he just block his phone number and say "Im alive stop looking for me"?

He left his phone behind.

What would Ray run from?
His character of running just to run is not fitting.

Why do you assume he's "run from" anything?

Where is his means of support?
No one leaves a pension and $100.000 behind in savings. Also why leave out his SSI and his health insurance?
He didn't have a second job to save funds from. They say his finances was done and checked out as ID show stated.

ID stated no immediate cash withdrawal.

We've talked repeatedly about assets, and lack thereof.

 

[cloudbuster05]

If that sighting was Ray then why didn't he just block his phone number and say "Im alive stop looking for me"?

He left his phone behind.



Why do you assume he's "run from" anything?





ID stated no immediate cash withdrawal.

We've talked repeatedly about assets, and lack thereof.

JJ he left his phone behind? That was not his phone it was Centre County Property. Cell phones even disposable ones can be purchased. You know that.

Thats my point why would he walk away or run from anything? Isn't walk away by your standards, corner stone of leaving?

Yes we have talked about assets. Finances are reported as in nothing amiss. I know that personally as a accountant team have looked into that early on.

JJ you seem to be upset with me. Its okay this case can do that.

JJ early on they focused mainly on 3 theories. Suicide was pushed to the front line pretty hard.
Then came walk away full force, even though his family does not believe this as they indicated on the ID show and they knew him well.
Why isn't foul play being looked at as hard???????

I know you will say because there is no evidence of foul play but save it because it has never been given a full look. If it was I wonder what would change then?

There is no walk away evidence either.

They need to concentrate on why the mystery woman has never come forward. They also need to focus on why Ray took his car keys as if planning to return as Corbett indicated. They also need to focus on why Ray would take a laptop that was reported as not being used. If they really looked at this Ray didn't take his counter parts for the laptop thats important. The laptop was a sign of something amiss.