PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

[RubyRed]

Girlfriend passed LDT. Just saying. FWIW. Daughter also passed one.

It also was stated that it was sent for further review. Does anyone know the results of that?

I'm not saying she was involved I just think some things are weird. I also do not think we are in the know to everything, LE may say one thing but feel differently. jmo

 

[Peazzzer]

I am here to bump this thread as I have read vitrol being posted on other sites today. I know nothing about this man, but I WILL read up on him. Thanks!

 

[liz b.]

Girlfriend passed LDT. Just saying. FWIW. Daughter also passed one.

This is a case with many layers MOO I wonder if Mr.Gricar had been threatened before he vanished ? If so, it might explain PF's calling LE so quickly... MOO I believe that there is a great deal that LE has never revealed about Mr. Gricar.

I know that there are several posters here who have devoted much time and attention to this case. So, I want to apologize in advance if the possibility of Mr.Gricar receiving specific threats before he vanished has been discussed before. MOO

 

[gozagoza]

About the lie detector test: I remember them being "lost." Is that legally considered "passed"? Or were they found?

 

[RubyRed]

The Grave 4-16-2005_0001.wmv - YouTube


If you google it many more come up as well. From all I have been reading it is controversial if it connects to him or not.

 

[cj327]

what is the freshly dug grave?

This is the first I'm reading about it...

Also, after thinking about it, I don't think his vanishing has anything to do with the Sandusky cover-up, beyond declining to prosecute. Mark Madden's rumours are just that, rumours, until more news comes out or he reveals his sources. And while I do lean toward foul-play, it's not related to this.

A while back on this thread the person who saw a "grave" noted that they were later informed that it was dug by a Penn State geology program or something like that. In my line of work I have also dug holes to look at soils. In hindsight, some of these may have looked like graves. Such holes can even be dug on private property, with permission of course.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Well, I saw a thread about this on a political site today where most people thought that Gricar's death was more likely connected to one of his other cases, if at all.

And it would seem there's still alot of disbelief in PA that things have gone so wrong at Penn State for so long. For the record, I live in TN where football is next to religion, and I lived in Alabama the year that Bear Bryant died and it was like a presidential funeral procession second only to the death of Abraham Lincoln. So I can imagine how people feel in Pennsylvania, and what the mood is like.

BUT . . . knowing something about the Gricar case myself from reading here, and familiar with the Disappeared episode about Gricar, I sat up straight and my mouth fell open. Because the Penn State connection was never mentioned, and I don't believe much in coincidences.

I don't know if they could ever prove any connection to Gricar's disappearance, but if there's been a cover-up maybe other people might have to start talking now. It just opens up so many other scenarios.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

how do you know it was little used? how do you know he wasn't meeting someone with it...to prove he destroyed it or that he wasn't using it for a highly inflammatory case he was working on?

"Little used" is from PEF and no coworker disagreed.

No one who was not with RFG 24/7 could have known if he copied or printed the data.

Maybe he went for a drive to see if it would shake someone who was watching him.

Maybe, but why 50 miles from home?



Mr. Buehner will the guest on Fox tomorrow.

 

[Peazzzer]

I am posting from my moldy mobile fone, but I do remember my dear aunt who lived outside pgh. telling me about dismembered bodies being found in garbage bags in the river near Chester wva. IIRC this is the time, late 90s. Makes me wonder about the dna that we have today.

 

[minazoe]

I loved reading the time line again and then looking at it in context of what we know about Sandusky....it's reads like a strip of DNA...I wonder it all correlates in some way.

Something was wrong with Ray in days leading up..his girlfriend differs on some of this..but I think something very hokey was going on...

It also makes me wonder if the sightings of him are real...and I wonder if he wasn't actually intercepted at his home...It would make sense to try to make it look like Ray dived off the bridge...especially since practically everyone knows about his brother.

Ray had a hidden laptop...his gf has the passwords for the other stuff, did she have the passwords for the "closet computer" ?

word has it , Ray was a straight shooter...but it seems like he was FREAKING OUT about something..and a lot of people have speculated that his GF knows more than she is saying.

I have to think back but I remember a little splash of hinky with her.

 

[RubyRed]

Other than GF did anyone else see him the day he disappeared?

And wasn't there also a credible sighting in the Detroit area?

 

[gozagoza]

It also makes me wonder if the sightings of him are real...and I wonder if he wasn't actually intercepted at his home...It would make sense to try to make it look like Ray dived off the bridge...especially since practically everyone knows about his brother.


Is it really possible to orchestrate that many people lying about seeing him?

I don't know what to think about the sightings. Wilkes- Barre and Southfield, MI sound so random, but then you look into and realize it was the best escape route to leave the country.

I'm leaning more towards him fleeing the country, but barely. And if that's the case, why did he? And what was on the computer? Escape plans? Info on Sandusky? Bad things?

I just don't get why you would murder the DA who is NOT prosecuting you. That is what bothers me about the murder theory.

Why did RG get back into the DA thing? He moved to State College to be a stay-at-home dad with a wife who was a teacher at Penn State.

I really find that odd.

 

[minazoe]

look at it this way...

he didn't or couldn't prosecute this case in 98...and so it kind of sat there....maybe he reassured a few people that he would stay away from it...so it died.

then

some kid comes in his office, maybe alone or with a family member.


what happens then?

he has no choice.

then what?

 

[minazoe]

let me re-phrase, maybe people wanted assurances that Sandusky who is a great guy, would not be investigated or troubled further...and maybe Ray was intimidated and avoided the case.

could there be certain people that would or could convince Ray to let go of something? back off?

 

[minazoe]

Could Ray have been blackmailed into backing off? would Ray lose his retirement if he was indicted over something like this?

 

[RubyRed]

let me re-phrase, maybe people wanted assurances that Sandusky who is a great guy, would not be investigated or troubled further...and maybe Ray was intimidated and avoided the case.

could there be certain people that would or could convince Ray to let go of something? back off?

From everything I have read it doesn't seem like he would be intimidated, but I guess you never know though.

This new scandal could just be a coincidence in him also being missing. There are several ways he could have disappeared.


I will say what bothers me the most is:

Was he in the habit of wearing the same clothes the next day that he wore the previous day?

He wanted to sleep in that day. Was this normal or out of character?

He didn't go to work at all. Was this the norm?

Call me a cynic but why is it that when people go missing their usual routine is suddenly so different. From what I have been reading it was thought he would leave a note and didn't, the weekly dinner out just didn't happen that day.

I know there were sightings but weren't people absolutely sure they saw Matrice Richardson in Vegas ( hope I have that right) when there was no way possible because she had been deceased all along.

In my opinion I think he disappeared the night before.

 

[gozagoza]

minazoe,

Absolutely. And that's why I lean I little bit towards RG fleeing. He seems to have cooperated (IF the case) with "the powers that be."

I can only speculate, but here are a few known facts:

1. RG was investigating Jerry Sandusky in 1998-1999

2. Jerry Sandusky was "laid off" of the Penn State coaching staff in 1999.

3. RG "drops" the Sandusky case

4. more reports on Sandusky molesting children surface.

Now, I'm curious about # 3. To what extent did RG drop the case? Did he stop investigating? If so, did he not even keep an eye out on Sandusky? Weren't parents still in contact with RG?

It has been said that RG was very secretive about the Sandusky case and equally secretive about this "personal" laptop.

 

[gozagoza]

RUbyREd,

one of the sightings stand out to me: Assistant DA Carolyn Fenton left work early on the 15th and spotted RG driving a car that was neither his nor his girlfriends, and thought "Ray's leaving early, so it's ok if I leave early." Ray wasn't missing yet, and she still spotted him in a different car.

And I need a little help here: what happened to Carolyn Fenton's sighting? Wasn't it disregarded because it was inconsistent with the "walk the dog, I'm taking a drive" phone call?

 

[minazoe]

if I did something that would essentially jack everyone in my family...i might split.

so let's say he perceives somehow that something going on with Sandusky is going to blow sky high ...and in this perception RG sees himself embroiled and having to answer questions about a non prosecution and the rest of the facts around the complaints...

would he split? would he discard anything that might be of a danger to his family in a way that let's everyone know it's destroyed...that those who would have an interest would speculate as to why and then be assured there was no evidence out there waiting to blow up or be discovered in Ray's home etc?

he could have run...if he did something wrong, even if it was out of fear...he might run.

 

[gozagoza]

http://www.yorkdispatch.com/penn/ci_19315938

I find many things in this article odd.

"Montour County District Attorney Robert Buehner Jr., a close friend of Gricar's, believes he was likely murdered. He defended Gricar's honesty and said there's likely a sound, legal explanation why Gricar didn't charge Sandusky in 1998."

-Why does he believe that he was murdered? That's a VERY odd thing for a DISTRICT ATTORNEY to say. But if he was in hiding, this would be a very smart thing to say. Stop wondering about his whereabouts, he is dead.

"Buehner believes Gricar likely reviewed Sandusky's comments to the boy's mother and determined they "were so ambiguous that it was not a 'confession', it was not an 'admission.'""

- So he dropped the case because he didn't get a confession? NO NO NO! When does a prosecutor think "well, I didn't get a confession, let's just quit."

"Stacy Parks Miller, the current Centre County DA, didn't return a call for comment; her office rejected two Right-to-Know requests filed on Thursday by the AP. The office said it couldn't release records about Gricar's disappearance because that investigation is ongoing. Gricar's file on the 1998 allegations against Sandusky also can't be released, Miller's office said, because "there are no such records in the office." "

- This makes me wonder, "are you keeping the investigation open so you don't have to release records?" Why are there no such records in the office? Was Gricar working this case entirely from his laptop?

"As evidence that Gricar had the guts to not prosecute someone contrary to popular opinion, Buehner recalled the case of Scott Paxson, a star defensive tackle accused of raping a woman at his campus apartment in December 2004. "

- This is news to me.

""I can say that prior to Ray's disappearance, there was absolutely nothing going on with Ray Gricar and Jerry Sandusky," Rickard said. "

- But there was still stuff going on between Sandusky and children. So when, officially did Gricar drop the Sandusky case?