GUILTY PA - Troy LaFerrara, 42, dies in Craigslist thrill killing, Sunbury, 11 Nov 2013

[Lucky 1]

Thelemites are not the only ones to follow that credo, and not all are altruistic.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

Since this forum does not and will not allow religious discussions per TOS, I fail to see where this back and forth on satanism can go. Her father and mother have both stated to MSM that they believe she was involved in a satanic cult. She says she was involved. The assumption that this is simply more "McMartin hysteria" is interesting IMO. What exactly would prove something like this to a population of people who are - pardon the pun - hell bent on believing it doesn't happen?

There are varying degrees of faith and devotion to any "religion". Not everyone has to belong to the CoS to follow that path. The whole basis of it is the belief that you are your own supreme being and your will is the only will you should bow to. I believe that "satan" is simply a placeholder for the evil that exists in the human heart. Evil is expressed when a human chooses to do something selfish rather than selfless. When their wishes and desires cause others harm.

"Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law" is demonstrated in many different ways, not necessarily people capering about in robes, chanting in the dark performing human sacrifice.

offering definitions of a particular religion as it pertains to a case where said religion is being used as a motivation for the crime isn't really the same thing as "discussing religion", imo. otherwise, I'm not really sure what your point is, except that you made a statement and then proceeded to do exactly what you were protesting...so I guess I'm confused. I apologize for obviously misunderstanding your point.

 

[Lucky 1]

offering definitions of a particular religion as it pertains to a case where said religion is being used as a motivation for the crime isn't really the same thing as "discussing religion", imo. otherwise, I'm not really sure what your point is, except that you made a statement and then proceeded to do exactly what you were protesting...so I guess I'm confused. I apologize for obviously misunderstanding your point.

My deepest apologies walkingdeadgirl if my statement was confusing.

Essentially, I am saying that we cannot discuss whether or not satanism actually exists because this is a crime forum, not a comparative religion forum. Yet it seems to remain on the table, despite her closest relatives verifying that they do believe she did interact with some type of "satanic" cult......whatever that happens to be or not be.

 

[tlcya]

I do not tend to think there is a registry for Satanists or followers of the church of satan.

Therefore it is not as if members are card carrying acredited ones. Her views and her theology may be of Satanic structure but she may not be affiliated with any of the known organizations of that religious construct.

Lots of people consider themselves Christians but do not hold membership with a specific church organization. Same I would imagine applies to Satanists.

I remember about 20 years ago there was a big debate about gangs in america. Lots of young people were claiming affiliation and membership in this gang or that gang.

Meanwhile, the actual organized gang (bloods/crips, etc) said, no these little P-ants are not part of our gang.

It matters not if you are a card carrying member of any organization. You can still subscribe to the theories espoused by that organization whether you are affiliated with them or not.

What confuses me is not whether she was or was not a satanist. If she says she is that is enough for me.

What confuses me is her parents thinking a swastika tattoo is proof of that satanic affiliation. While I understand that some self professed stanists have taken to using the swastika as a symbol, there are many other more "recognizably" satanic symbols to choose from in order to make your alliance clear.

To me it sounds more like she got involved with skinhead drug addicts who also like to call themselves satanists in effort to appear even tougher and scarier.

 

[ArianeEmory]

The larger point is whether anyone really believes that a) she killed all the people she claimed, and b) whether there's really a Hollywood-style "satanic" cult blithely snatching children. I don't believe either, although I can certainly believe that there are lowlife criminals who will tag themselves with whatever label seems, as tlcya says, scary and evil.

 

[nosysw]

an architectural building used for worship services...not anything to do with christian at all. interestingly and oddly, the CoS do not worship Satan or any deity. (in fact, in my reading, I have found they find people who worship any god or deity to be insane, so there is a joke for you!) they view the self as "god". from wikipedia: "Its core beliefs and philosophies are based on individualism, secular humanism, religious skepticism, freethought, epicureanism and "eye for an eye" morality". oh, and magic. but no actual satan. so the 'Church of Satan' seems an even odder label.

Above BBM:

Not to belabor the point, but several online dictionaries did have a definition which included the wording Christian, ie from Dictionary.com:

church [church]
noun
1.
a building for public Christian worship.
2.
public worship of God or a religious service in such a building: to attend church regularly.
3.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) the whole body of Christian believers; Christendom.
4.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) any division of this body professing the same creed and acknowledging the same ecclesiastical authority; a Christian denomination: the Methodist Church.
5.
that part of the whole Christian body, or of a particular denomination, belonging to the same city, country, nation, etc.


Now, regarding CoS regarding people who worship any god as insane, I'm okay with that. :floorlaugh: Point taken.

 

[starviego]

]I suspect that she really was involved in a satanic cult that killed people. They probably did their homework on each one, and that a group of people participated in each homicide. I'll bet that Miranda's main job was to act as the lure--the prospect of having sex with an underage girl. That's one way to ensure the target would leave home without telling anyone where he was going. Miranda made a remark indicating that the group might have been 'protected' at some level:

?Craigslist slasher? boasts: I killed many, many more | New York Post
As to why she was not caught, she shrugged again.
“Given the people I was involved with, it was easy to cover it up,” she said.


What's also possible is that cult came to the attention of the Feds early on, who decided an underage girl seemingly willing to have sex with strangers on command would be an attractive asset to use in blackmail schemes against prominent or powerful people--police, politicians, community leaders, etc.--who, when confronted with the evidence, would be forever in the pockets of whatever alphabet agency managed to entrap them. The Feds may even then have given the cult a "pass" on their murderous extracurricular activities. You'll notice all the Law Enforcement agencies are downplaying her story. They have a lot to protect.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, there are "satanic" atheists.

LaVeyan Satanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That said, I think people are just reading way too much into Steely Dan's joke.

<modsnip>
I refuse to acknowledge them as my brand of atheist.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lucky 1]

"Hollywood-style 'satanic' cult". Like Eyes Wide Shut or something. If those do exist they are the minority. We are talking more about a group of people, regular Joes and Janes, who look and act like you and me, but they get together and do things you or I would never in a million years consider because they are WRONG.....and they do them as a group. They cover it up as a group. And you might be very, very surprised exactly who is counted as members. They don't talk about this group, they do not advertise, if asked they will deny, deny, deny that it exists. They meet in basements, attics, garages, cellars, deep woods - hidden places. Places were good people can't see and record their actions in order to ask WTF?!?! They are involved in all the things you see and read about on this board, the things you ask yourself "now WHO would do a thing like that?". They operate in the dark, dank places that good people don't want to even think about, much less go to.

Why would they do that? Because they can. And because they think they get power and influence from doing so. To look more evil and scary? Maybe, but they really actually want to fit in to society, they don't really want to stick out and cause people to ask questions and start meddling in their business......

All my opinion, of course.


http://nypost.com/2014/02/15/accused-pennsylvania-thrill-killer-says-she-killed-many-more/

&#8220;When I became involved in Satanism, I knew I had something bad inside me, and I embraced it,&#8221; Miranda explained.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

The larger point is whether anyone really believes that a) she killed all the people she claimed, and b) whether there's really a Hollywood-style "satanic" cult blithely snatching children. I don't believe either, although I can certainly believe that there are lowlife criminals who will tag themselves with whatever label seems, as tlcya says, scary and evil.

I don't believe either one, either. That there was a boogy man that groomed her for badness and crime that claimed he was into satan to make himself seem "bada$$" and scary, I could get on board with that.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

Above BBM:

Not to belabor the point, but several online dictionaries did have a definition which included the wording Christian, ie from Dictionary.com:

church [church]
noun
1.
a building for public Christian worship.
2.
public worship of God or a religious service in such a building: to attend church regularly.
3.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) the whole body of Christian believers; Christendom.
4.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) any division of this body professing the same creed and acknowledging the same ecclesiastical authority; a Christian denomination: the Methodist Church.
5.
that part of the whole Christian body, or of a particular denomination, belonging to the same city, country, nation, etc.


Now, regarding CoS regarding people who worship any god as insane, I'm okay with that. :floorlaugh: Point taken.

fair enough.

magic = logical. god worship = insane....I am on the floor with you. I'm more comfortable with a middle ground of "live and let live" rather than blatant black and white claims of insanity for what one believes. the fail of logic there just blows my mind.

 

[Nymeria]

I was looking at one of the last articles linked, and noticed her with what looked like the groom at "a relatives wedding".
He is a pretty tall heavyset guy.
Do you think that the hatred of obesity stems from the fact that the family member who molested her was actually obese?

Just Musing...

 

[nosysw]

I was looking at one of the last articles linked, and noticed her with what looked like the groom at "a relatives wedding".
He is a pretty tall heavyset guy.
Do you think that the hatred of obesity stems from the fact that the family member who molested her was actually obese?

Just Musing...

I was doing the same musing

 

[bettiepageturner]

She deserves about as much attention as a 7th grader scratching upside-down pentagrams into the lunch table with a safety pin. JMO.

 

[Lucky 1]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-teenage-girl-killer-claimed-murdered-22.html

Sex abuse and Satanism with a man called 'Forrest' twice her age: How depravity, drugs and divorce warped the fragile mind of teen girl 'Dexter' killer who claims to have murdered 22

By Will Payne In Anchorage, Alaska

PUBLISHED: 18:10 GMT, 21 February 2014 | UPDATED: 18:12 GMT, 21 February 2014

And MailOnline has discovered the perpetrator was a former member of the US Army called Richard Fernandez.

The sex offender - now 43 - was married to Barbour’s aunt Mxxxxxx at the time of the offense, which took place in the family’s home town of North Pole, Alaska.

Speaking about the crime Elizabeth said: 'It was bad. I never let (her) stay anywhere except for my sister’s house, and I was devastated when I found out.'

The assault was so severe Fernandez was sentenced to 10 years in prison for first-degree sexual assault of a minor.

He was released about six years after his 1998 incarceration, but was arrested again in 2011 for distributing sickening child *advertiser censored*.

Fernandez is currently behind bars in Wildwood Correctional Center in Kenai Alaska.

@dailymail - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-teenage-girl-killer-claimed-murdered-22.html

 

[Steely Dan]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-teenage-girl-killer-claimed-murdered-22.html

Sex abuse and Satanism with a man called 'Forrest' twice her age: How depravity, drugs and divorce warped the fragile mind of teen girl 'Dexter' killer who claims to have murdered 22

By Will Payne In Anchorage, Alaska

PUBLISHED: 18:10 GMT, 21 February 2014 | UPDATED: 18:12 GMT, 21 February 2014

@dailymail - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-teenage-girl-killer-claimed-murdered-22.html

Why do they let child molesters out of jail?

 

[bettiepageturner]

Those DailyMail headlines make me cringe. Please God don't let anyone give her a book deal. Publishers were prohibited from letting Casey Anthony profit off anything like that, right? I shudder to think what kind of self-aggrandizing nonsense Miranda would want in her "memoir."

 

[Nymeria]

Why do they let child molesters out of jail?

Was just thinking the same thing.
IMO they should be eligible for the Death Penalty. I know that sounds crazy harsh, and I am not even a big PRO DP person....but people who mess with children will never change, maybe drastic penalties will at least deter them.

Sorry, this probably sounds :nuts:.

But I am sitting here wondering how BAD it was that they gave this guy 10 years (and I know it SHOULD be way longer but going by the many I see barely getting any time, his sentence seems really tough).

 

[starviego]

I am getting the feeling the cops aren't exactly enthusiastic about pursuing leads:

"MailOnline previously revealed Barbour has started providing authorities with specific locations for her kills. FBI teams are on standby in case any of them match up to current unsolved murders."
["Well, we found a body where she said it would be, but it's not on our current list of unsolved murders, so it must not be relevant."]

http://www.newsminer.com/news/local...cle_e269f742-984c-11e3-96c7-0017a43b2370.html
As of Monday(two days after the story broke), Fairbanks Police had not received requests from any other agencies for information, Welborn said.

http://www.carynews.com/2014/02/18/3632917/police-skeptical-of-womans-claim.html#
Cary(NC) police spokesman Capt. Don Hamilton, Knightdale(NC) police spokesman Brian Bowman and Dunn(NC) Police Chief Jimmy Pope all said their agencies had not been contacted by FBI or other law enforcement authorities who may be investigating Barbour&#8217;s claims of being a serial murderer. (three days after the story broke)

http://www.adn.com/2014/02/17/3331732/former-alaska-teens-claim-to-be.html
So far, the Alaska State Troopers will say only that troopers "received the information and will work with other authorities as appropriate and follow up any leads that may present themselves"
[In other words, if a lead drops into their lap, they might investigate, but don't expect them to go around digging up any leads either.]

 

[nosysw]

I am getting the feeling the cops aren't exactly enthusiastic about pursuing leads:

"MailOnline previously revealed Barbour has started providing authorities with specific locations for her kills. FBI teams are on standby in case any of them match up to current unsolved murders."
["Well, we found a body where she said it would be, but it's not on our current list of unsolved murders, so it must not be relevant."]

http://www.newsminer.com/news/local...cle_e269f742-984c-11e3-96c7-0017a43b2370.html
As of Monday(two days after the story broke), Fairbanks Police had not received requests from any other agencies for information, Welborn said.

http://www.carynews.com/2014/02/18/3632917/police-skeptical-of-womans-claim.html#
Cary(NC) police spokesman Capt. Don Hamilton, Knightdale(NC) police spokesman Brian Bowman and Dunn(NC) Police Chief Jimmy Pope all said their agencies had not been contacted by FBI or other law enforcement authorities who may be investigating Barbour&#8217;s claims of being a serial murderer. (three days after the story broke)

http://www.adn.com/2014/02/17/3331732/former-alaska-teens-claim-to-be.html
So far, the Alaska State Troopers will say only that troopers "received the information and will work with other authorities as appropriate and follow up any leads that may present themselves"
[In other words, if a lead drops into their lap, they might investigate, but don't expect them to go around digging up any leads either.]

if this is all truly attention seeking, she is gonna be pissed that they are not jumping around following all her "leads". OTOH, I get your point.

They must really be convinced she's FOS with the approach they are taking.