Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #12

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So if this was a set-up that means somebody planted her credit cards on him or he found her dead and decided to take her credit cards so he could use them to escape from the murder he didn't commit.

If you look at the security videos It would be evident by his demeanor if he was framed or set-up. I think he looks more like someone trying to cover his tracks as opposed to someone HORROFIED:flashbak: he has just found a body and will surely be blamed for a murder.

I suppose she could have been killed after he stole her credit cards and left the hotel. The only thing they would have to do is plant her blood:drac: on his clothes inside his luggage in a moving cab.

The cab drivers could have been in on it.
 
I agree your theory could very well be true, we all know JVDS is a liar!
I was just pointing out that in his latest confession he is doing what many murderers do, blame the victim. He/she provoked me so it is their fault. He even blames Natalee stating that an e-mail on his computer got him talking about her! The nerve of him!! :furious:

Do you buy the story about why they went to his room? The casino was closed so they went to his room to play online poker, computer forensics will prove if that is false or not. I think it may be true, I can see him using that to get her back to his room, as to whether or not they turned the computer on and played poker is another story.

I don't think there is a video of him leaving to buy coffee and breakfast food,
I have a feeling it would have been released by now if there was.

My opinion, Joran now qualifies for World's Dumbest Criminal!!

JMO

When they left the casino was still open. I'm not much of a gambler, but in Vegas, most are open 24/7.

Anyway, yes, I agree - always blame the victim. Stephany was so petite, she didn't stand a chance with him. I still can't figure out why they went back to his room. Did you notice in the casino video, Stephany was several feet ahead of him, Joran stops (back against wall), and then she kind of motions to come with her. Then they walk out together. Odd....

My favorite show is World's dumbest :) If this wasn't such a tragic case, he'd be a prime candidate!

Night! Can't believe it's Saturday morning already.

Mel
 
I also think Joran is thinking in the same deluded way that Casey Anthony did, believing her parents could get her out of jail on murder charges. He believes he can get extradited to Aruba, and skip this nasty business in Peru if he's willing to play along with Aruban authorities re. Natalie Holloway's death. Silly boy. You're going away, and it's not to Aruba. MOO.
 
She had a passion for poker and so did he -- they met at the casino several days before. They were helping each other out money wise. The night of the murder -- there was to be a divvying up up of the proceeds. Going back to his room to celebrate (his words) may have meant doing some weed, or a romp in the hay. My guess is that there was a fight over money and/or sex.
 
Soon after this story first broke, I remember reading somewhere that Flores won money in the casino that night and the article I read specified an amount. Does anyone recall reading that she won money and how much? If this has already been discussed, my apologies.
 
I also think Joran thinking in the same deluded way that Casey Anthony thinks, believes he can get extradited to Aruba, and skip this nasty business in Peru if he's willing to play along with Aruban authorities re. Natalie Holloway's death. Silly boy. You're going away, and it's not to Aruba.

I know that's what all this "I know where Natalie is" business is coming from. JVS wants out of Peru and back in Aruba. Thinking if he can only get the Aurban LE to bring him back "home" he'll be in the clear.

Then again, I think many of us agree he is the world's dumbest criminal, so this isn't going to happen. He is probably dreaming about it though.

OTOH, if there's anything he can give up to bring Natalie home, I'm all for that too (just as long as he stays in Peru). Even if it means less time.

Just my thoughts.

Mel
 
I'm caught up reading and did get to watch dateline (it was interesting and talked mostly about the Holloway case--also good coverage of the Riley Fox case).

I read a posters comment about Beth having been focused on JVDS and it nudged a thought in my mind.

I have read Beth's book and have been watching the details about him having contacted someone close to Beth in order to extort money from her...etc.

It seems to me at this time, just off the top of my head that the opposite is true. JVDS has made this personal and is almost obsessively focused on Beth.

I'm going to have to go back when I get time and read up on that to see if that thought I had is remotely plausible but I think it might be.

If true that is especially Sadistic.

Sorry to interupt the train of thought with the posts on this page, I just wanted to throw that out there before I head to bed it's almost midnight here and we have a long day tomorrow. Take care everyone! :)
 
I also think Joran thinking in the same deluded way that Casey Anthony thinks, believes he can get extradited to Aruba, and skip this nasty business in Peru if he's willing to play along with Aruban authorities re. Natalie Holloway's death. Silly boy. You're going away, and it's not to Aruba.

I don't want to put words in Beth's mouth but given the choice I would be willing to bet she would prefer Joran stay in a Peruvian jail as opposed to serving his time in Aruba in exchange for divulging information about Natalee.
 
Soon after this story first broke, I remember reading somewhere that Flores won money in the casino that night and the article I read specified an amount. Does anyone recall reading that she won money and how much? If this has already been discussed, my apologies.

there are a few links to her winnings but this one will get you started.

They were returning to his room to split the winnings --

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594382,00.html
 
Me too. I bought most of the OJ books as I was curious how such (IMHO) a guilty man was found innocent -- fascinated the heck out of me. I was not working at the time, and watched the entire trial. Then when the verdict came in it was like WTH? So yah, if there are books on this case, I'd buy them. Then again, I love most mystery books :)

MOO

Mel

with all due respect (to PD James, Agatha Christie et al) I believe JVDS books would fall under fables or children's non fiction?
 
welcome.gif


Welcome Dolly!
 
Two things I learned from watching Datelline last night- when in Thaland, Joran continued with his college classes for awhile, and he also owned smalll cafe.

Then Paulus dies.

March 30, Joran started his extortion attempt by contacting Beth or a representative of Beth.

The rest we already knew.

abbie
 
If someone commits a crime in Peru, well lets say it falls under worlds dumbest. Peru has been basically at war internally with "The Shining Path insurgency" since the 1980's. From what I can tell Castro Castro holds over 500 life imprsoned "Shining Path insurgents still intent on over throwing the peruvian government.

If convicted and I think he will be, is in for a rude awakening.

November 23, 2003
LIMA, Peru -- Leading Peruvian politicians criticized President Alejandro Toledo on Saturday for failing to condemn the armed forces for their role in two decades of political violence that may have killed 70,000 people. Toledo said Friday night that Peru's military committed "painful excesses" combating terrorism from 1980 to 2000. The president was reacting to a report issued in August estimating 69,280 people may have died or disappeared during that time. The commission said 54 percent of the identified dead were killed by the Shining Path guerrillas and 30 percent by security forces.

Pedro Fernandez, director of Lima's Castro Castro prison, is negotiating with an undetermined number of Shining Path rebels to end the hunger strike. A jailed rebel at Castro Castro contended in a telephone interview with The Associated Press that about 3,500 guerrillas in four different prisons were participating in the protest.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/keyword/shining-path-guerrillas
 
Sorry if this has already been pointed out and discussed.
I was re-watching the casino video and was wondering why Joran has his left arm/hand under the table like he is trying to hide something. I noticed this on the above shot of the table at the 1:24 mark. Shortly before Stephany sits down beside him at the 2:00 mark it looks like he switches whatever he has in his hand from his left hand to his right hand then puts his right arm/hand under the table.
I also noticed Stephany rubs her eye. A signal? Were they running a scam?

Link to casino footage:

http://www.larepublica.pe/node/271311/01#fotos
 
Sorry if this has already been pointed out and discussed.
I was re-watching the casino video and was wondering why Joran has his left arm/hand under the table like he is trying to hide something. I noticed this on the above shot of the table at the 1:24 mark. Shortly before Stephany sits down beside him at the 2:00 mark it looks like he switches whatever he has in his hand from his left hand to his right hand then puts his right arm/hand under the table.
I also noticed Stephany rubs her eye. A signal? Were they running a scam?

Link to casino footage:

http://www.larepublica.pe/node/271311/01#fotos[/QUOTE

have been looking for friend's quotes ((see earlier links I posted)) seems to me it ''could'' be that they were partnering up
 
Olay, I'll give just a few examples of why my research focused so much on the Beth/Mountain Brook connection. First, we have an official immigration document that shows Beth went through customs in Aruba at 7:45 p.m., after initially learning Natalee was missing. In her book, and every interview she's ever given, Beth states that she arrived at app. 11:00 p.m. This is a huge discrephancy, and it throws off her entire timeline of what allegedly happened after she landed on the island.

Second, it has been stated countless times that Natalee "was last seen" entering a car with Joran and the Kalpoes. The problem is, if one analyzes the statements from her friends/students at the bar, one discovers that NONE of them is on the record as having seen her get in a car with anyone that night. Only two people reported even seeing her leave the bar, one said "looked like with Joran" and the other one described her being with the Kalpoes, but said nothing about Joran. Despite this, Beth immediately seemed to focus on Joran and Joran only, and would go on to declare in a t.v. interview that "20-40" of Natalee's friends had seen her get in the car with Joran and the Kalpoes.

While the rumors and allegations against Joran, leveled by Beth and others over the years, almost invariably cannot be substantiated when one looks for sources, the ones about Beth (thought not all of them) are a lot easier to source. Again, not accusing Beth of being involved in Natalee's disappearance. I don't think she set out to be dishonest, but people sometimes become desperate when they're trying to conceal embarrassing family secrets. Imo, Natalee had a very unhappy home life.

So, with my view of Beth colored by what I've been researching, it was only natural for me to instantly suspect that something was fishy about the murder in Peru. Joran is a very hard guy to defend, even if, like me, you don't believe he's a murderer. He has done a lot of stupid things, showed little empathy for others, and appears willing to do almost anything for money. All in all, hardly a sterling character, but someone I firmly believe was framed.
 
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I tend to believe its a duck.

JMO

abbie
 
I keep hearing the rumor that Juran killed a dog when he was 13, but I have never seen one single article to support that. Can anyone PM me or provide a link for information inre to that event? Also, earlier today, someone posted that his mom had him in some sort of therapy after that event. I'd also appreciate the ability to read that article. Google is giving me nothing at this point, although I was able to see a naked Joran holding himself compliments of Google, today. Ack! I keep running my virus scanner because I heard you can get one from visiting sites such as that.

Gotta admit I googled for naked photos of Joran too. If the photo wasn't doctored, I can understand why he has had anger problems all his life. ...........seriously unendowed. Might also explain his penchant for demeaning women by selling them as sex slaves.
 
Hmm. Well, that's an odd way to go about things. I don't see how whatever BH did or didn't do or say in any way changes what can be proven that VDS did do or say- or I should say, lie about. BH could be a pathological liar who is mean to cats and hates unicorns, or other unlikeable traits, but that does not change any of the documented facts of what VDS did/said in either case, nor in other unsavory things like attempting to sell women in Thailand.

I know who I would prefer to meet in a dark alley.

But anyway, I'm wondering how you are going to be able to write a book about anything, really, unless entire chuncks of evidence are left out. Like the VDS knocking on an open door, realizing it's open, and then shutting it, knocking again, and then getting the desk to open it for him. How are you going to explain him purposefully locking himself out? Unless you somehow plan on speaking directly with VDS, I can't see how that can be addressed. I like, and believe in some conspiracy theories. I just don't like conspiracy theories for the sake of writing a book. In fact, I've realized that I don't think it's in good taste for anyone to be mentioning that they are writing a book (no matter what the subject), or hinting that they know information that will only be found in their book, on a board- and specific thread that deals with the murder of at least 2 women. It doesn't seem appropriate to me at all. Good luck with the book- it will be interesting to see if any of your theories pan out.

But that's just my thoughts.

Different topic- I have now read numerous theories of why VDS killed Stephany, many who claim that possibly he tried to rape her, and then got 'furious' because she was on her period.

That makes no sense to me. A woman certainly can be raped while on her period. Not only that, but honestly, I really have only known a couple guys who claim to not like having sex while someone was on their period, or to think that was a good reason to not have sex, unless the woman was not feeling well. I think most guys will take it when they can get it. I find it hard to believe that someone who was capable of killing a woman would have stopped raping her because she was on her period. Or that she said no to the rape 'because' she was on her period, and that angered him enough to kill her.

I am going to guess the truth will be the simplest explanation- that they went to his room to play poker on the laptop, that they argued about something, possibly his involvement with NH, and that he then beat her to death and robbed her. Based on how little it took to anger him enough to throw a glass of wine in someone's face, she probably said some nasty things to him as she attempted to leave, and he went ballistic on her. She was not reported as having been sexually assaulted, and was known to be a lesbian- I don't believe sex was a motive in this case at all.
 
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