Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #19

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Kat said:
I had a thought about the possibility of Stephany having JVDS DNA under her fingernails and the lack of scratches that we have seen in pictures.

IIRC, there wouldn't be a need for her to scratch him as deep to leave a mark on his skin. If she so much as was able to just rake her nails along his skin without digging, then she would have enough of his skin cells under her fingernails.

Say for example your Husband/Wife asks you to scratch their back. You gently rub your fingernails across their back. You will come away with a lot of their cells packed under your fingernails. You won't even notice it.

So she might have reached out blindly and without much strength and her nails came in contact somewhere on his body (forearms, etc.) and that's why she has DNA under her nails.

Might JVDS' DNA or perhaps someone else's she was in contact earlier that evening. We will have to wait and see.

JMHO and :twocents:
Click to expand...

I am not saying this for shock value -- I think his DnA came from a more delicate region of his body that's not acceptable for mainstream media to broadcast -- I am thinking there are marks on His "nether'' regions
 
mgardner said:
I'm not sure if this has been discussed - the receptionist's statement. I have to wonder why she would knock on the door at midnight, regardless if he owed 2 days. Wouldn't a hotel wait until the morning? Now I'm glad they found Stephany, but it raises my hinky meter just a tad. Maybe because it's not a 5 star hotel (in which case probably would never do such a thing). Did he pay by credit card, and the hotel couldnt run it? Just more questions!

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...murdered-woman-joran-van-der-sloots-room-read

View attachment 9888

Best,

Mel

ETA the statement indicates Stephany was wearing a dark shirt, red underwear, and covered with a white sheet. Now I thought she was wearing the white shirt (at least in part). She doesn't mention the shirt at all??
Click to expand...

Yes, this statement certainly does raise questions. The story we were told was that Joran paid for two days back rent when he went out for coffee. So, he should have been paid up when he left, but as I have noted, it is highly unlikely, imho, that a hotel would have just reserved the room for someone who didn't pay ahead for it (and to boot had already been two days behind).

The bigger question is- why did they expect him to be in the room? Supposedly he told them he was leaving, and we all saw him walk past the front desk with his belongings. Whether he said "don't disturb my girl" or not, it should have been clear to the hotel that he wasn't there. So why were they checking the room for him at point? And, of course, the extremely odd, late hour certainly makes it even more unbelievable.

And I thought the late night call came from Elton Garcia, but here it is stated that a woman called. Then the manager authorizes the receptionist to just go and enter the room, because no one answered the phone (and at that time of night?) Very peculiar. On the one hand, this hotel is lax enough to let someone just leave for a few days, and still retain the same room without paying ahead or leaving a deposit, but on the other hand when the belatedly discover (what they should already be aware of) that he is two days behind on the rent, the manager tells the receptionist to just barge into the room in the middle of the night? Wow- just a tad inconsistent, imho.

Also, how was the t.v. considered so loud from outside the room, but "normal volume" once he entered the room? So many questions- I would really love to see the videotape of this employee entering the room, and more importantly, the tape of everything that transpired from the moment Joran left the hotel until this guy entered the room.
 
froginTtown said:
ewww..pains me to say this...but isn't the white blood cell that clots the blood... and if you have too much it causes oozing..?
Click to expand...

White blood cells are fighters. Fighting off infections, etc.

Blood clots:

Normally, blood clots in response to injury. Clots form to plug breaks in blood vessels and prevent blood from leaking out of the blood vessels. Platelets are crucial to clotting. When a blood vessel breaks, platelets are activated. They become sticky and change from rounded to spiny. These changes enable platelets to stick to the broken blood vessel wall and to each other, helping form a plug at the break. At the same time, platelets release proteins and other substances that promote further clotting. These substances activate proteins called clotting factors, such as fibrinogen. Until activated, clotting factors are dissolved in the blood. When fibrinogen is activated, it is converted to fibrin, which consists of long strands. The strands are interwoven in the platelet plug and radiate from it. They form a net that entraps more platelets and red blood cells and thus help strengthen the clot. Platelets also release substances that cause the blood vessel to contract (constrict). This effect also helps reduce the bleeding.

http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual_ha/sec3/ch49/ch49d.html
 
wow...still stuck on kr2's senerio... I can ssooooo picture that...!!!
 
hollyblue said:
White blood cells are fighters. Fighting off infections, etc.

Blood clots:

Normally, blood clots in response to injury. Clots form to plug breaks in blood vessels and prevent blood from leaking out of the blood vessels. Platelets are crucial to clotting. When a blood vessel breaks, platelets are activated. They become sticky and change from rounded to spiny. These changes enable platelets to stick to the broken blood vessel wall and to each other, helping form a plug at the break. At the same time, platelets release proteins and other substances that promote further clotting. These substances activate proteins called clotting factors, such as fibrinogen. Until activated, clotting factors are dissolved in the blood. When fibrinogen is activated, it is converted to fibrin, which consists of long strands. The strands are interwoven in the platelet plug and radiate from it. They form a net that entraps more platelets and red blood cells and thus help strengthen the clot. Platelets also release substances that cause the blood vessel to contract (constrict). This effect also helps reduce the bleeding.

http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual_ha/sec3/ch49/ch49d.html
Click to expand...

thanks so much....I appreciate that....
 
froginTtown said:
ewww..pains me to say this...but isn't the white blood cell that clots the blood... and if you have too much it causes oozing..?
Click to expand...


There are two major facets of the clotting mechanism – the platelets, and the thrombin system.
The platelets are tiny cellular elements, made in the bone marrow, that travel in the bloodstream waiting for a bleeding problem to develop. When bleeding occurs, chemical reactions change the surface of the platelet to make it “sticky.” Sticky platelets are said to have become “activated.” These activated platelets begin adhering to the wall of the blood vessel at the site of bleeding, and within a few minutes they form what is called a “white clot.” (A clump of platelets appears white to the naked eye.)

The thrombin system consists of several blood proteins that, when bleeding occurs, become activated. The activated clotting proteins engage in a cascade of chemical reactions that finally produce a substance called fibrin. Fibrin can be thought of as a long, sticky string. Fibrin strands stick to the exposed vessel wall, clumping together and forming a web-like complex of strands. Red blood cells become caught up in the web, and a “red clot” forms.

A mature blood clot consists of both platelets and fibrin strands. The strands of fibrin bind the platelets together, and “tighten” the clot to make it stable.
Click to expand...

White cells are infection fighters.
 
Kat said:
I wonder if it could have been decomp from her brain? I don't know the details of decomp we have so many other's here that are well versed in that.
Click to expand...

I'm not well versed, but I have thought from the beginning that any "still bleeding" comments were from liquid as a result of decomposition. When there is so much brutality it allows for the blood to escape the veins, arteries, and capillaries, and it will leak out - pressure from the gases of decomp would force the liquid out through whatever opening was present.

I have also thought from the beginning that her eye being "out of the socket" might also be from pressure buildup from the cranial impact and subsequent swelling, both from the original injuries as well as decomp gases. The eye could've been loosened (sorry) during a blow, and pushed out (again, sorry) by build-up of vitreol fluids and/or decomp gases.

This poor, poor girl. I can only hope that her injuries were so great that she was unaware of most of it; I can imagine she fought as hard as she could, but the cranial injuries were bad enough that consciousness was lost quickly. At least, that is my hope.

(and as for the Joran knuckle swelling, I am a blackbelt in Tae Kwon Do, and have broken many boards/bricks...and my knuckles never broke. Elbow strikes are effective, both crossbodied and behind, but it's hard to imagine someone using their elbow without training. I don't believe Joran had any martial arts training, and muay thai uses hands and arms as boxing/striking rather than elbow strikes {elbow strikes are used mostly for defense and are very effective when attacked/held from behind}).

MOO and all that.

Best-
Herding Cats
 
Herding Cats said:
I'm not well versed, but I have thought from the beginning that any "still bleeding" comments were from liquid as a result of decomposition. When there is so much brutality it allows for the blood to escape the veins, arteries, and capillaries, and it will leak out - pressure from the gases of decomp would force the liquid out through whatever opening was present.

I have also thought from the beginning that her eye being "out of the socket" might also be from pressure buildup from the cranial impact and subsequent swelling, both from the original injuries as well as decomp gases. The eye could've been loosened (sorry) during a blow, and pushed out (again, sorry) by build-up of vitreol fluids and/or decomp gases.

This poor, poor girl. I can only hope that her injuries were so great that she was unaware of most of it; I can imagine she fought as hard as she could, but the cranial injuries were bad enough that consciousness was lost quickly. At least, that is my hope.

(and as for the Joran knuckle swelling, I am a blackbelt in Tae Kwon Do, and have broken many boards/bricks...and my knuckles never broke. Elbow strikes are effective, both crossbodied and behind, but it's hard to imagine someone using their elbow without training. I don't believe Joran had any martial arts training, and muay thai uses hands and arms as boxing/striking rather than elbow strikes {elbow strikes are used mostly for defense and are very effective when attacked/held from behind}).

MOO and all that.

Best-
Herding Cats
Click to expand...

Thanks so much....that was v informative....I have a question. How on earth could someone have inflicted those injuries - especially the facial fractures, and the broken neck with their bare hands? I really can't wrap my mind around that .. do you have any idea? Is that possible, or would some kind of weapon, whether it be a bed post or similar be required.
 
Unreals said:
Yes, this statement certainly does raise questions. The story we were told was that Joran paid for two days back rent when he went out for coffee. So, he should have been paid up when he left, but as I have noted, it is highly unlikely, imho, that a hotel would have just reserved the room for someone who didn't pay ahead for it (and to boot had already been two days behind).

The bigger question is- why did they expect him to be in the room? Supposedly he told them he was leaving, and we all saw him walk past the front desk with his belongings. Whether he said "don't disturb my girl" or not, it should have been clear to the hotel that he wasn't there. So why were they checking the room for him at point? And, of course, the extremely odd, late hour certainly makes it even more unbelievable.

And I thought the late night call came from Elton Garcia, but here it is stated that a woman called. Then the manager authorizes the receptionist to just go and enter the room, because no one answered the phone (and at that time of night?) Very peculiar. On the one hand, this hotel is lax enough to let someone just leave for a few days, and still retain the same room without paying ahead or leaving a deposit, but on the other hand when the belatedly discover (what they should already be aware of) that he is two days behind on the rent, the manager tells the receptionist to just barge into the room in the middle of the night? Wow- just a tad inconsistent, imho.

Also, how was the t.v. considered so loud from outside the room, but "normal volume" once he entered the room? So many questions- I would really love to see the videotape of this employee entering the room, and more importantly, the tape of everything that transpired from the moment Joran left the hotel until this guy entered the room.
Click to expand...

I think one must consider first the occupancy rate for this particular hotel. My guesstimate is they had daily, weekly and monthly rentals. The managers job is to maintain a 100% daily rental if possible. From the pictures this hotel didn't look that inviting as a resort hotel and I'm guessing their occupancy rate was more like 30% and they held Jorans CC# and info.

Not good business to not have someone pay in advance but money owed is better than no money when it comes to occupancy rates. Sometimes advertised hotel rooms are treated more like rental apt's and given cheaper rates because maid service maybe only once a week or less.

Maybe a statement will come from the manager at some point but I doubt they will mention occupancy rates as a reason. JMO
 
and as for the Joran knuckle swelling, I am a blackbelt in Tae Kwon Do, and have broken many boards/bricks...and my knuckles never broke. Elbow strikes are effective, both crossbodied and behind, but it's hard to imagine someone using their elbow without training. I don't believe Joran had any martial arts training, and muay thai uses hands and arms as boxing/striking rather than elbow strikes {elbow strikes are used mostly for defense and are very effective when attacked/held from behind}). quote: Herding Cats


http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/inside-look-at-aruba-prison/6563zyf
It's been awhile since I watched, but I believe Joran got into a fight (and lost)
when he was in the Aruba Prison. IMO
 
Herding Cats said:
I'm not well versed, but I have thought from the beginning that any "still bleeding" comments were from liquid as a result of decomposition. When there is so much brutality it allows for the blood to escape the veins, arteries, and capillaries, and it will leak out - pressure from the gases of decomp would force the liquid out through whatever opening was present.

I have also thought from the beginning that her eye being "out of the socket" might also be from pressure buildup from the cranial impact and subsequent swelling, both from the original injuries as well as decomp gases. The eye could've been loosened (sorry) during a blow, and pushed out (again, sorry) by build-up of vitreol fluids and/or decomp gases.

This poor, poor girl. I can only hope that her injuries were so great that she was unaware of most of it; I can imagine she fought as hard as she could, but the cranial injuries were bad enough that consciousness was lost quickly. At least, that is my hope.

(and as for the Joran knuckle swelling, I am a blackbelt in Tae Kwon Do, and have broken many boards/bricks...and my knuckles never broke. Elbow strikes are effective, both crossbodied and behind, but it's hard to imagine someone using their elbow without training. I don't believe Joran had any martial arts training, and muay thai uses hands and arms as boxing/striking rather than elbow strikes {elbow strikes are used mostly for defense and are very effective when attacked/held from behind}).

MOO and all that.

Best-
Herding Cats
Click to expand...

BBM.
Yes, and here is a link that is more explicit; scroll down past 'tables'.
http://www.deathreference.com/Py-Se/Rigor-Mortis-and-Other-Postmortem-Changes.html
 
Herding Cats said:
I'm not well versed, but I have thought from the beginning that any "still bleeding" comments were from liquid as a result of decomposition. When there is so much brutality it allows for the blood to escape the veins, arteries, and capillaries, and it will leak out - pressure from the gases of decomp would force the liquid out through whatever opening was present.

I have also thought from the beginning that her eye being "out of the socket" might also be from pressure buildup from the cranial impact and subsequent swelling, both from the original injuries as well as decomp gases. The eye could've been loosened (sorry) during a blow, and pushed out (again, sorry) by build-up of vitreol fluids and/or decomp gases.

This poor, poor girl. I can only hope that her injuries were so great that she was unaware of most of it; I can imagine she fought as hard as she could, but the cranial injuries were bad enough that consciousness was lost quickly. At least, that is my hope.

(and as for the Joran knuckle swelling, I am a blackbelt in Tae Kwon Do, and have broken many boards/bricks...and my knuckles never broke. Elbow strikes are effective, both crossbodied and behind, but it's hard to imagine someone using their elbow without training. I don't believe Joran had any martial arts training, and muay thai uses hands and arms as boxing/striking rather than elbow strikes {elbow strikes are used mostly for defense and are very effective when attacked/held from behind}).

MOO and all that.

Best-
Herding Cats
Click to expand...

wow...that gweezed my stomach....
I'm also interested in the facts on how he said the blow to him in a certain side of his head vs. the blow to her nose... I can't remember if he said left or right or what ever,, but I pictured myself sitting next to someone and it didn't make sense... does anyone remember this...and why is he so specific...??
 
Unreals said:
Yes, this statement certainly does raise questions. The story we were told was that Joran paid for two days back rent when he went out for coffee. So, he should have been paid up when he left, but as I have noted, it is highly unlikely, imho, that a hotel would have just reserved the room for someone who didn't pay ahead for it (and to boot had already been two days behind).

The bigger question is- why did they expect him to be in the room? Supposedly he told them he was leaving, and we all saw him walk past the front desk with his belongings. Whether he said "don't disturb my girl" or not, it should have been clear to the hotel that he wasn't there. So why were they checking the room for him at point? And, of course, the extremely odd, late hour certainly makes it even more unbelievable.

And I thought the late night call came from Elton Garcia, but here it is stated that a woman called. Then the manager authorizes the receptionist to just go and enter the room, because no one answered the phone (and at that time of night?) Very peculiar. On the one hand, this hotel is lax enough to let someone just leave for a few days, and still retain the same room without paying ahead or leaving a deposit, but on the other hand when the belatedly discover (what they should already be aware of) that he is two days behind on the rent, the manager tells the receptionist to just barge into the room in the middle of the night? Wow- just a tad inconsistent, imho.

Also, how was the t.v. considered so loud from outside the room, but "normal volume" once he entered the room? So many questions- I would really love to see the videotape of this employee entering the room, and more importantly, the tape of everything that transpired from the moment Joran left the hotel until this guy entered the room.
Click to expand...


Lots of great questions. I'm not much into a conspiracy theory, but I do believe someone was keeping close tabs on JVS -- whether that was the FBI, local LE, or a private investigator. Remember, he's been duped in the past by "friends" who actually turned out to be reporters.

I don't like the scenario I'm now hearing from the receptionist. It doesn't ring true to me. Yes, I'd like to see the video of the receptionist going into a room at midnight. If they wanted to know if he came back and just didn't see him, why didn't they rewind the tape to see for themselves? Also, why send the receptionist. The manager should have gone to the room (IMHO).

Another thing, is when he first notices the camera. It's an Oh shi* moment. Like he hadn't noticed it before. Was that camera placed there in anticipation of his arrival (boy, I'd really like to know that).

Maybe I'm just getting bits and pieces and it's not fitting for me -- but something is off.

On another note, I'm watching NG, and one of the talking heads was talking about nose bleeds. Not to get too offensive, but my dad suffers from nosebleeds, and has to often go to the hosptal. Left untreated, and lying unconcious on the floor, the blood will flow into the throat, and you can actually drown.

Yet, from what I can tell, the head was down, meaning the blood would drain onto the side of her face, or directly on the floor. This would explain why there was so much blood. I bet JVS wasn't quite expecting that!

Thanks for letting me think out loud. And of course, all of this is MOO.

Best,

Mel
 
froginTtown said:
wow...that gweezed my stomach....
I'm also interested in the facts on how he said the blow to him in a certain side of his head vs. the blow to her nose... I can't remember if he said left or right or what ever,, but I pictured myself sitting next to someone and it didn't make sense... does anyone remember this...and why is he so specific...??
Click to expand...

I doubt all his words, and I doubt Stepheny hit first. He is so used to crying 'wolf' and getting believed, it's a dang sin already. I believe he hit first, the strike to the nose/face which caused Stepheny to 'reel', at which time he was able to 'disable' her by grabbing her from behind and pinning her arms. After that he was able to continue his carnage. He has no remorse.
 
Carrington said:
and as for the Joran knuckle swelling, I am a blackbelt in Tae Kwon Do, and have broken many boards/bricks...and my knuckles never broke. Elbow strikes are effective, both crossbodied and behind, but it's hard to imagine someone using their elbow without training. I don't believe Joran had any martial arts training, and muay thai uses hands and arms as boxing/striking rather than elbow strikes {elbow strikes are used mostly for defense and are very effective when attacked/held from behind}). quote: Herding Cats

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/inside-look-at-aruba-prison/6563zyf
It's been awhile since I watched, but I believe Joran got into a fight (and lost)
when he was in the Aruba Prison. IMO
Click to expand...

Thank you. This was the guy I was talking about last night commenting on JVS's temper. He is a prison director--was a friend of Paulus. Yep, when he's being escorted to the vehicle you can she his eye. Did you catch where JVS "kept kicking the smaller guy over and over in the same place". Said JVS bigger by not smart street fighter.
 
There have also been statements that Joran told hotel staff he would be back in a couple days. "Don't disturb my girl." Then leaves in Stepheny's vehicle, gets the h*** out of Dodge, dyes his hair, and keeps running at all expenses.
Why would anyone believe Stepheny was willing to wait there a few days for Joran while he takes off with her vehicle? Nothing hinky except Joran.
 
Brothers who went to Joran van der Sloot in his flight to Chile did not declare before the judge

http://translate.google.com/transla...r-sloot-su-fuga-chile-no-declararon-ante-juez

snipped;

The brothers John Williams, and John Oswald Aparcana Pisconte and Uribe parapet because they are charged, allegedly facilitated the transport of Joran Van der Sloot Nasca to Tacna, despite allegedly having knowledge of the offense as it would have incurred .
 
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