POI: Michael Pak

[mysterymom7]

I can only answer those questions with a bunch of maybes. The only things I know to be true and factual are that SG was running from MP and MP was the last person to see her alive according to a witness GC.

Please remember, there was also the FINAL witness... BB. We have never heard from her and don't know what she saw. She may have seen SG run INTO CPH's house for all we know? (Of course, we DON'T know, so that is just pure fantasy)

 

[Justiceforever]

Please remember, there was also the FINAL witness... BB. We have never heard from her and don't know what she saw. She may have seen SG run INTO CPH's house for all we know? (Of course, we DON'T know, so that is just pure fantasy)

The last person according to eyewitness to see her alive was MP. Anything else (unless further evidence comes out) is speculation.

 

[Justiceforever]

Please remember, there was also the FINAL witness... BB. We have never heard from her and don't know what she saw. She may have seen SG run INTO CPH's house for all we know? (Of course, we DON'T know, so that is just pure fantasy)

BB never saw her alive. BB heard her knocking on her door screaming for help. By the time she got to the door SG was gone.

 

[mysterymom7]

BB never saw her alive. BB heard her knocking on her door screaming for help. By the time she got to the door SG was gone.

Have you read a statement from her? She may not have been at the front door, but BB may have seen where SG went after? I don't know, I've never heard/read a statement from BB about the case. I'd be curious to know, though!

 

[Justiceforever]

Have you read a statement from her? She may not have been at the front door, but BB may have seen where SG went after? I don't know, I've never heard/read a statement from BB about the case. I'd be curious to know, though!

No I haven't. Only what was reported in the news. I would LOVE to read the reports also!

 

[deedee21]

BB never saw her alive. BB heard her knocking on her door screaming for help. By the time she got to the door SG was gone.

And this may be the point in time when she ran to door number three. It might also be where she was when the police arrived.

 

[CriminalMinds]

Please remember, there was also the FINAL witness... BB. We have never heard from her and don't know what she saw. She may have seen SG run INTO CPH's house for all we know? (Of course, we DON'T know, so that is just pure fantasy)

well, FINAL is subjective, depending on whether or not you believe this kid:
(taken from new york post article 12/16/10)

... She spent some time inside before fleeing after Coletti said he had called the cops.

Gilbert was never seen again.

"That was the last time she was seen. We saw her footprints in the sand," said Justin Canning, 20, who lives down the street.

"She was in a panic. We thought she was on drugs."


--some questions with his quote: 1)who is "WE"? (canning and ?)
2)if you only "saw her footprints in the sand" and not her, how did you know they were hers?
3) if only "saw...sand", and not her, then how do you know she was in a panic?
4) "WE" who (again) thought she was on drugs? (had to be close to think that)
5)and how can you(s) think she was on drugs if you(s) didn't see her, but rather only her footprints in the sand?
---is he lying?exaggerating? wanted just some attention by talking to a reporter?
--if he just stopped with the footprints comment, he later could have said he meant he saw them the next day, maybe? but, still, how would you know they were hers?--like a few people here, I have some thoughts on this, but can't violate the TOS, since it encompasses those not mentioned in msm

 

[Justiceforever]

And this may be the point in time when she ran to door number three. It might also be where she was when the police arrived.

It MAY and it MIGHT, but is that enough to convict? I don't know, I am not a lawyer. What I do know is, the facts are that SG was running from MP and MP was the last person to have seen SG alive according to an eyewitness!

 

[Tugela]

Ray summarized the results of his investigators' talks with Oak Beach neighbors, saying Hackett said that Gilbert knocked on his door and he took her into his home, then immediately gave her narcotics to calm her down. Hackett also said to neighbors that it was "too late to help her" and he then released her to the care of her limo driver, the Gilbert family lawyer said.

I feel somewhat validated, as I had posted previously I felt there was a strong likely-hood that CPH and MP had met that night, that MP probably was the last to see SG alive, and MP returned days later to Oak Beach speak to CPH to about those events.

The only problem is that I cannot find where I posted my theory.

And no I am not boasting, because I know even a blind squirrel finds an acorn from time to time.

Go Mari!

MOO

The problem with that is it is double hearsay and consequently extremely unreliable. CPH and MP will deny it and say whatever they said to LE in their statements. Ray has no counter to that, which means he basically has nothing, other than what the mother claims the conversation was about. But without have recorded it, there is no way to know if that was really said, or if she misunderstood what was said.

One thing we do know is that CPH has denied it.

What Ray is claiming does not seem like a reasonable thing to have happened, which means it is probably not true. It is also not consistent with the facts as we know them, specifically the 911 call and SGs subsequent running down the street. For Ray's claim to be reasonable you would have to accept that there was an interlude between those two events when SG was being lucid and rational, and that appears very unlikely.

 

[Tugela]

It MAY and it MIGHT, but is that enough to convict? I don't know, I am not a lawyer. What I do know is, the facts are that SG was running from MP and MP was the last person to have seen SG alive according to an eyewitness!

You don't know that either. The only thing you know is that she was running and that MP was trying to find her. It does not follow that she was running from him, or anyone for that matter. She might have been, but there is no evidence to support that.

She may have been freaking out from a paranoid delusion and running from that rather than someone specific. For all we know it could have been demons crawling out the woodwork. In that scenario MP would have been looking for her to try and get her under control.

 

[Justiceforever]

You don't know that either. The only thing you know is that she was running and that MP was trying to find her. It does not follow that she was running from him, or anyone for that matter. She might have been, but there is no evidence to support that.

She may have been freaking out from a paranoid delusion and running from that rather than someone specific. For all we know it could have been demons crawling out the woodwork. In that scenario MP would have been looking for her to try and get her under control.

Point taken. A good point might I add.

 

[Justiceforever]

Criminal minds...I couldn't quote your post on my phone becaue it was too long. I forgot about that account. I question it however for the same reasons you do!

 

[truthspider]

If I forget all the hype about the doctor and the fact that he definately makes a more colorful POI. I keep coming back to MP. SG was running from HIM. HE was the last person KNOWN to have seen her alive. Occams razor states that..." among competing hypotheses, the one that makes the fewest assumptions should be selected."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

SG running from MP makes NO assumptions. She did run from him and continued to run from him. She either ran to her death in the marsh from the elements or MP finally caught up with her and killed her. I'm off the fence. I basically just got off the fence but ultimately this is what I believe happened to SG. When it boils down to the basics SG was afraid of MP. IMO

If MP killed SG why did he go back to Oak Beach to look for her after the 1st?

If MP killed SG why did he go to the police dept. and attempt to file a missing persons report?

If MP killed SG why did the detectives, who certainly know much more than we do, not search his car or property for evidence? And why did they search CPH's house and property with cadaver dogs?

What does Occam's razor tell you to do about this?

 

[Justiceforever]

If MP killed SG why did he go back to Oak Beach to look for her after the 1st?

If MP killed SG why did he go to the police dept. and attempt to file a missing persons report?

If MP killed SG why did the detectives, who certainly know much more than we do, not search his car or property for evidence? And why did they search CPH's house and property with cadaver dogs?


I
What does Occam's razor tell you to do about this?

What I said was SG was running from MP and she either ran into the marsh and died from the elements OR he caught up with her and killed her.

Either way your first two questions are easy enough. It's what an innocent man would do. If he didn't kill her it's what he would do. If he did kill her it's what he would do to appear innocent
As for your third question. Do you know for sure that they didn't search his car etc? I don't remember ever reading that anywhere. Of course by the time they started investigating any evidence could have been destroyed anyways. As for your fourth question, didn't they searched the doctors house because of the phone call he denied making?

 

[Justiceforever]

You don't know that either. The only thing you know is that she was running and that MP was trying to find her. It does not follow that she was running from him, or anyone for that matter. She might have been, but there is no evidence to support that.

She may have been freaking out from a paranoid delusion and running from that rather than someone specific. For all we know it could have been demons crawling out the woodwork. In that scenario MP would have been looking for her to try and get her under control.

Even under that scenerio (running from demons) the theory that she ran into the marsh and died of the elements still makes the least assumptions so I am still convinced that she either died of the elements or MP killed her.

 

[WINDSOR]

The problem with that is it is double hearsay and consequently extremely unreliable. CPH and MP will deny it and say whatever they said to LE in their statements. Ray has no counter to that, which means he basically has nothing, other than what the mother claims the conversation was about. But without have recorded it, there is no way to know if that was really said, or if she misunderstood what was said.

One thing we do know is that CPH has denied it.

which means it is probably not true. It is also not consistent with the facts as we know them, specifically the 911 call and SGs subsequent running down the street. For Ray's claim to be reasonable you would have to accept that there was an interlude between those two events when SG was being lucid and rational, and that appears very unlikely.

We do know based on historical fact that CPH will deny admit to anything based on his whims.

If we assume John Ray is stupid and incompetent, then you can make the assertion that "What Ray is claiming does not seem like a reasonable thing to have happened."

I do not know much about John Ray other than what I saw in the TV interviews, based on those, it is my opinion that he is not stupid or incompetent.

Let the trial begin

MOO

 

[WINDSOR]

If MP killed SG why did he go back to Oak Beach to look for her after the 1st?

If MP killed SG why did he go to the police dept. and attempt to file a missing persons report?

If MP killed SG why did the detectives, who certainly know much more than we do, not search his car or property for evidence? And why did they search CPH's house and property with cadaver dogs?

What does Occam's razor tell you to do about this?

Truth,

Answers;

#1 Who says he did any looking, besides MP? All we know for sure is he spoke to CPH. That is not what I would call searching for SG.

#2 Because that is what AD wanted to do. It is my understanding they went to the PD together. You cannot give MP credit for that good deed.

#3 Searching MP's car would be useless, because we know anything that was found in the car could be reasonably explained as having occurred before their Oak Beach arrival. MP's car was full of SG's personal effects, DNA, and finger prints. But that evidence would only prove SG was in MP's car, which he admitted to.

Occam's razor ? MP and CPH are involved together.

MOO

 

[truthspider]

Truth,

Answers;

#1 Who says he did any looking, besides MP? All we know for sure is he spoke to CPH. That is not what I would call searching for SG.

#2 Because that is what AD wanted to do. It is my understanding they went to the PD together. You cannot give MP credit for that good deed.

#3 Searching MP's car would be useless, because we know anything that was found in the car could be reasonably explained as having occurred before their Oak Beach arrival. MP's car was full of SG's personal effects, DNA, and finger prints. But that evidence would only prove SG was in MP's car, which he admitted to.

Occam's razor ? MP and CPH are involved together.

MOO

They took and searched JBs car and he told them SG was in his car when they went for their little ride. I would assume they would want to search any and all cars for blood, etc. ?

In my opinon the swarm of LE activity/search was more interested in JB and CPH than they were with MP.

 

[LINative13]

Occams razor needs a few things to be valid. The complete knowledge of facts is one of them. That we do not have. Even though I think MP is a horrible person and probably had something to do with the death of SG; I still cannot commit to him 100%. How can I with the jerk off CPH in the picture? I also do not think MP was using OP as a burial ground either, so even if MP killed SG you still have atleast 1 serial killer running around. You cannot commit to anyone 100%; to do that is pretty unreasonable at this point. There is alot of information out there that we do not know. You can be 99.9% sure; but you still have to leave that little bit open for further developments until someone is playing footsie with their prison cell mate.

 

[truthspider]

#1 Who says he did any looking, besides MP? All we know for sure is he spoke to CPH. That is not what I would call searching for SG.

MOO

various reports have him (MP) coming to OB to look for SG. CPH even said so in his letters to 48 hrs so it must be true, lol.