Possibly related cases (GB4, Manorville, Bittrolff victims, & others)

[Sallyla]

Disclaimer: I understand that this is probably a bit of ‘teaching your Grandma to suck eggs’ for many here much longer than me. And also it is speculation.

IronButterfly posted a link to this very interesting article from 2016 about the Atlantic City murders.

Getting away with murder: the Atlantic City prostitute killings 10 years later

A few things jumped out at me:

Kim Raffo had no defensive wounds so it’s suggested she was drugged or incapacitated when killed. (Shannan may have had same done to her).

Her last known contact was a doctor (john) and she was last seen going on a trip to buy drugsx

This all just makes me think so much of Shannan. Possibly being drugged, trips to buy drugs and contact with a doctor just before her death.

Now I don’t believe that the doctor Kim saw was Hackett, but I do think it’s possible Hackett and the AC4 doctor were both used by LISK for the same purpose: eg supplying drugs to incapacitate escorts before murder. I wonder if the police reviewed the doctors prescribing history.

Also, the AC4 were killed on the border of Atlantic City and Egg Harbor. It hampered the initial investigation of the AC4 and similarly Shannan’s disappearance was hampered by ambiguity over which police department (national parks or SCPD) were responsible inc the 911 call.

Victims left in or near water.

Just my musings, but feels strange.

 

[Litoralnc]

photos below

Jacqueline Martarella 1985

Patricia Costello 1986 (no photo)

Rita Tangredi 1993

Sandra Costilla 1993

Colleen Mcnamee 1994

Fire Island Jane Doe 1996

Great write up. I am very familiar with Fusco, Morrissey and Martarella having lives at Lynbrook at that time and being the same age as Kelly. I will do some digging on the others. It is worth noting that Peaches was found only 2.5 miles from the Hot Skates where Theresa was last seen. There is presumably DNA from Fusco, which lead to three men being exonerated so you'd think these cases would be solvable! They are very underreported.

 

[Sincao]

How ex-cheerleader Corinna Slusser fell victim to NYC sex ring

 

[Michael7130]

Lets make a few thing clear:

- neither the AC victims nor the GB4 (LISK) were dismembered, that is only such a rumor someone threw in here a while ago.
- The dismembered victims, Jessica Taylor, JD6 and so on are connected to Manorville. In my personal opinion, this Manorville dismemberer is not the same person as LISK or the AC-Killer.

Thus, if we talk about dismembering, we have to consider three different scenarios:

a.) dismembering as forensic counter measure
It's a rumor, SKs using dismembering as part of their disposal of bodies as a forensic counter measure only in later phases of their career. Dahmer, Rifkin, Bartsch (a German one), ... they all did it in the beginning of their careers.

b.) dismembering to keep body parts as souvenirs
I have seen a lot of those cases, from guys keeping heads and skulls (Berdella or once more Dahmer) to teeth (there was one in TX, forgot his name), to fingers (Volkanoff in Russia for example) ... there was even a guy in Egypt once, who collected male genitalia. And in a way, SKs maintaining little private graveyards and revisit them all the time (like Ridgway for example) do the same. Basically, that's trothy hunter behavior

c.) staging dismemberers
This kind, also known as torso-killers, use often torsos and heads in staged positioning to make statements. Since they are otherwise usually not very articualte, it's often a little hard to figure, what they want to tell us. A pretty messed up kind of guy, but in their work easy to spot. The place packages with torsos right in the way of police beats, put them on piles along ways they know will be used at some time, place them in the middle of ways where they know, people would come by, put them along high-traffic roads and so on. It's a rare kind and hard to catch, because they are slow killing, keeping body parts sometimes for years before they put them out there and they are meticulous.

I think, Manorville is type c.) Which would make him a sadist in the extreme (dismemberment starts usually antemortem). And that would be a kind of guy, who spends time with his victims, so he would need to restrain or drug them.
LISK is another kind of animal altogether. Most of the injuries from torture wouldn't be visible anymore due to decomposition. What would be noticeable would be deep cuts to the lower arms, because they often go through to the bones and can be discovered under the microscope. Lower organized SKs of the sadistic variety (and I use the term variety here intentionally) would maybe beat their victims and leave broken bones which could be discovered on skeletal remains.
Defensive wounds and traces of restraints wouldn't show on skeletal remains. So there would be some evidence for torture left to discover if the torture was extensive. Question is, would LE tell us?

There is a lot about those phone calls, that makes me wondering. At the first glance, yes, the few, LE told us, looks like that white drunk dude sadist. But from the few fragments, it appears to me, as if all he said was precise to the point of not torture but example. "Do you think ... with her life style ..." Even the sexual parts were worded as description what he would do, not what he did. Scenarios, summoned imaginations, not a fact. Which is consistent because it establishes a pretty typical pattern of "do right" or "terrible things will happen to you".
The other giveaway, in my opinion, is that he also called the bf Terri. Either, he knew, that this guy was more a bf than a pimp or he couldn't have expected, a pimp would care. Which would make the call senseless from the point of view of a sadist. A mission driven killer on the other hand wouldn't care whether he can psychological torture a pimp or not, because he would make the call to give hints to his mission statement, often combined with indirect threads.
And last but not least, the precision of what he had to say at the exact right time in the calls was too high to make me buying this "drunk" guy. Whatever else he was, he wasn't drunk. But it's easy to play drunk, especially on a phone for less than three minutes. Which poses the question, why he saw a need for this show play in the first place?

Peter

Generally serial killers are impulsive whether they are organized or not. They don’t think logically like a normal person might but they get impulses to kill like an addict on drugs or an alcoholic. Most have some kind of mental illness that gives them their impulse and there’s no rhyme or reason to it

 

[Girlinterrupted]

Generally serial killers are impulsive whether they are organized or not. They don’t think logically like a normal person might but they get impulses to kill like an addict on drugs or an alcoholic. Most have some kind of mental illness that gives them their impulse and there’s no rhyme or reason to it

Serial killers can be split into many categories.
Affective/impulsive murderers and premeditative/predatory murderers are two categories that have been studied extensively. The latter category does not act on impulse and derives a great deal of gratification in the time and actions leading up to the murder as well as the time spent post mortem (an example of this would be posing). Impulsives are very different in terms of neuropathy and most often do not possess the restraint and patience of the premediatative/predatory category.
This is a well documented distinction.

 

[Sheila Terranova]

I'm posting in reference to 'The Killing Season's' River Man... I think I may have encountered him in ALABAMA. I thought things about the GB4 cases and everything in between leading up to the introduction of the River Man, sounded an awful lot like a run in I had with a very very strange man when I was escorting in AL in 2017. I was thinking wow, this adds up to pieces of my experience with a man that I believe would've seriously hurt me had I not been on guard as I was, but then I thought, nahh hew has no connection to AL. I was SHOCKED when Rachel and Josh mention that his LAST KNOWN LOCATION WAS ALABAMA! Unfortunately, I only know he was in Mobile, AL last, not when and who he is. Here's why I think he COULD POSSIBLY be someone I encountered. . .
I was living in a hotel, and escorting toward the end of 2017. It wasn't a seedy hotel, it was nice, a very nice Days Inn in Trussleville, AL. Perhaps that had something to do with the odd request...here's similarities to the original GB4 cases, though keep in mind, location is very different as I was about 3.5-4 hrs from the beach, and in AL (but they do have evidence his tail goes cold there. (Anyone know when? If so, please do tell!) Heres the things that make me wonder if he was connected to this man, or who ever the killer or once of the killers are...

1.) I was escorting off of Craigslist, and Backpage, where I came across this man. Name unknown.
2.) He offered $1,000 to me. At one point I backed out, and he upped the ante to $1,500. (Both were exact increments thrown at 2 of the GB4 girls.)
3.) He was offering this kind of money for me to have a CAR date with him, even though I had my own room. (This is the first thing that made me EXTREMELY uneasy. The pricing was the second, as I'm not that naive.)
4.) He requested that when he pulled up out front of the room, that I would open my curtain windows and flash him. (I gave him a room # a couple doors down as I didn't want him to know where my room was just yet, because something didn't feel right. I wanted to be able to scope this situation out first.) After that, I would come out to the car. I asked him where we would go or if we would stay in the parking lot (either was too risky for my liking.) He didn't answer that, he only said "just come out". He said he was there, but I was (very, very discreetly as to not tip off my room location) watching out of the window and saw NO car pull up. Leading me to believe he had already been there. He called and told me to come out to his car, but oddly wouldn't give me a detailed description...just that he was in an SUV out front. This is where it gets BIZZARE! ... After some time, he calls and asks if I'm coming. I said I don't feel comfortable. This was where
he upped the ante from $1,000 - $1,500) making me even MORE SUSPICIOUS. I waited a while, looked out the window for someone sitting in their car, and saw NO ONE. I tip toed out with mace in hand, and a switch knife (locked in the open position to be prepared) in my waistband. I began peeking into a few of the cars between my door and the door number I gave this fellow. I came up to an SUV that I was unfamiliar with being there over the past days, and peek in the back.... and there he was.
This man appeared to be naked, he MAY have had underwear on, but I couldn't see that. This guy was crouched back there facing downward, He was positioned like he was on his knees, then just bent forward until his forehead touched the seat. (Exactly like a yoga 'child's pose'! If you don't know what that is, I have it attached in a pic below.) The parking lot was dark, there was only residual lighting from the lights in front of the hotel doors, so his white skin really stuck out, which is how I know he was unclothed, but at my angle, his head was toward me. If I opened the door, he would've been facing me... SO He may have had boxers on or something, I can't say definitively bc of his positioning, I couldn't see any of that part of him. But I did see the top of his buttcrack so....idk. ANYWAYS
... TOTALLY CREEPY RIGHT!? I've never seen anything like it! My hair's raised and I RAN for my room, got in locked up, stuck a chair under the door handle, and locked myself in the bathroom.
5.) He called. I answered and said "I'm not coming." He said, "$1500. Are you coming?" I said "no im uncomfortable, I'm going to pass. Thank you. He says "$2000, 2500?" I hang up, because I now know he's danger, has no intention of paying, and is probably there to hurt me. My intuition is hardly ever wrong. He calls again. I dont know why I answered but I did...he says "Do you know what happens to a '*advertiser censored*'?" (OH YES, PLEASE NOTE, THERE WAS NOOOO SOUTHERN ACCENT. HE WAS NOT AN ALABAMIAN.) I hung up, afraid. I continued to get blocked calls, and didn't answer. This went on for a few days. I left the hotel the very next morning. Fortunately, the calls subsided a few days after, and I'm left wondering who the hell I encountered and what would've happened to me if I would've opened that car door to meet him had I fell into that money trap.
6.) I, at the time, was also a drug user which is why I was escorting off of CL and BP.

So with aaaaaalllllllllll these coincidences, the escorting, the use of Craigslist and Backpage, drug use (though he wouldn't have known that, it would've had to be an assumption), the strict request for a car date (even with a room I paid for a week, a safer place to be...), the evasiveness of where we'd be going in said car, the ridiculous money offer starting with the 2 increments the other girls fell for, calling me a *advertiser censored*, thes taunting with calls period, the lack of AL accent, AL being the last known location (like I said, idk when, this was 2017, but still the fact that this guy WAS known to even be there...uhg... spooktacular!!!) It just all seems soooooo coincidental. Too coincidental.

I am very glad you stayed safe.

 

[NonameLurker]

Great write up. I am very familiar with Fusco, Morrissey and Martarella having lives at Lynbrook at that time and being the same age as Kelly. I will do some digging on the others. It is worth noting that Peaches was found only 2.5 miles from the Hot Skates where Theresa was last seen. There is presumably DNA from Fusco, which lead to three men being exonerated so you'd think these cases would be solvable! They are very underreported.

I just posted this in the main RH apprehension thread but this post is what made me take a closer look at Fusco and other similarities with the GB4:

There are a few things about the Theresa Fusco case that keep nagging me now that we know more about RH. TF went missing in 1984, this case is related to 1 other murder and 1 disappearance in the Lynbrook area but never formally connected to LISK. She was found dead naked (strangled by a ligature), raped, and near LIRR train tracks off an access road not far from where she was last seen. Three men were later convicted but then exonerated in 2003 after semen DNA proved they were not responsible.


Theresas mother received “prank phone calls'' after her disappearance. I could only find one article and it referenced her testimony when the 3 original suspects sued NY for wrongful conviction. Keep in mind this was 30+ years after TF was killed but here is what she said:


“The callers sounded like young people and gave useless tips about clothing that was found, or someone seeing something being thrown into Hempstead Lake”


“I got one sick call: ‘Help me mommy, I’m suffocating’”


Two things strike me. 1) Peaches torso was found only a few miles away from where TF was dumped at Hempstead State Park and 2) the disturbing prank call describing how she was killed. The article is unclear on when the calls were made, but it appears it was before the body was discovered a month later.


I know theres prob a lot of confirmation bias in this one but based on a strong DNA sample and RH’s propensity to call and antagonize his victims families I hope they will at least test his DNA for any connection to this case… if so that may open up a string of other Lynbrook based murders/disappearances from the 80s only 10-15 miles from RH’s home.