Profiling a killer

[KR2tonenow]

<<Disorganized/asocial offenders

Disorganized/asocial offenders are often of low intelligence, have a below average IQ (<90), and commit their crimes impulsively. Whereas the organized killer will specifically set out to hunt a victim, the disorganized will murder someone when the opportunity arises, rarely bothering to dispose of the body but instead just leaving it at the same place where they found the victim. They usually carry out "blitz" attacks, leaping out and attacking their victims without warning, and will typically perform whatever rituals they feel compelled to carry out (e.g., necrophilia, mutilation, cannibalism, etc.) once the victim is dead. They rarely bother to cover their tracks but may still evade capture for some time because of a level of cunning that compels them to keep on the move. They are often socially inadequate with few friends, and they may have a history of mental problems and be regarded by acquaintances as eccentric or even "a bit creepy". Usually they are very introverted people, too. They have little insight into their crimes and may even block out memories of committing the murders.>>

Snipped from Wiki, it was mentioned in an article today that Sandra's killer has the makings of a Disorganized killer. A that would not have the intelligence, and would murder and place the body close to home.

 

[KR2tonenow]

another thought - the video of her skipping, it has been said that she was skipping to her house, which means she would be going toward the back (or non exit/entrance) of the park...what about the video from her house? IF the perp was in a car, don;t you think they would be caught going back out towards the exit (hence passing Sandra's house)? Of course there is a possibility that they went down another street.

Do we know how many homes there have cameras? I heard the LE say yesterday that they have hours and hours of video and one being from the hotel/motel parking lot across the street from the mhp....wonder if they have footage of SOMETHING???!!!

Hopefully the FBI has documented all vehicles leaving from 3PM (the day of her disappearance) to 6AM that next morning that were leaving the park. The RSO creep took her out that night, I believe.

 

[LinasK]

Linask, Don't you think it odd they didn't report her missing till 8pm? Dinner is usually around 5, right? Leaving your daughter out that late, all alone, seems very risky to me. I think she might have been given free reign, except for her grandfather. I don't know. Just too bad and a lesson for us all. xox

I totally agree Scandi.

 

[~Always Have Hope~]

I noticed several days ago that Orange Street which someone mentioned LL lives on (this was never verified but it brought out early important forensic astrology clues about the pastor, and put the spotlight on him for us), is at the back and leads to a field that is behind the church. Also, the pastor at 77 would have a lot of time on his hands during the day, since the position is probably part-time due to the small size of the building and congregation.

I know I've seen the map (and will probably have to go hunt it down after I post this)......but do all the POIs live towards the back (where Sandra was headed??)

not sure if this is even relevant, but might be worth knowing.....

 

[RhythmicSun]

<<Disorganized/asocial offenders

Disorganized/asocial offenders are often of low intelligence, have a below average IQ (<90), and commit their crimes impulsively. Whereas the organized killer will specifically set out to hunt a victim, the disorganized will murder someone when the opportunity arises, rarely bothering to dispose of the body but instead just leaving it at the same place where they found the victim. They usually carry out "blitz" attacks, leaping out and attacking their victims without warning, and will typically perform whatever rituals they feel compelled to carry out (e.g., necrophilia, mutilation, cannibalism, etc.) once the victim is dead. They rarely bother to cover their tracks but may still evade capture for some time because of a level of cunning that compels them to keep on the move. They are often socially inadequate with few friends, and they may have a history of mental problems and be regarded by acquaintances as eccentric or even "a bit creepy". Usually they are very introverted people, too. They have little insight into their crimes and may even block out memories of committing the murders.>>

Snipped from Wiki, it was mentioned in an article today that Sandra's killer has the makings of a Disorganized killer. A that would not have the intelligence, and would murder and place the body close to home.

This is why, if the Pastor is not the perp, it may well be someone connected to him through the church, the church's alleged work with RSO's (someone please refresh where that info is--thanks), and/or the MHP. I am thinking mainly of FM connected to him in peoplesearch databases.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

This is why, if the Pastor is not the perp, it may well be someone connected to him through the church, the church's alleged work with RSO's (someone please refresh where that info is--thanks), and/or the MHP. I am thinking mainly of FM connected to him in peoplesearch databases.

Can you point me to where there is information on the church helping RSOs?

 

[RhythmicSun]

I asked that question on another thread! (Just to be clear, I made a typo - it is PM not FM.)

I believe it is buried in one of the main numbered threads from a day or so ago. I've been trying to use the search function but this case is moving so fast I'm not having much luck.

Right now I am trying to find all the really good marked maps of where different people live in the MHP. No such luck. It may be in the Forensic Astrology Forum, but I couldn't find it.

 

[DollyPardonMe]

Thanks so much Linask as it helps trying to put things together.

We are working with 4 hours until the MHP was crawling with LE, or at least there was a car out at the entrance/exit gate.

For some unknown reason, tonight I have started trying to piece together how this crime was carried out. And it all depends on the profile of this guy, at least the main perp, realizing he might have had an accomplice.

I think we need to write a profile for the perp who would abduct a child this way and then take her in a car 2.2 miles away, evidently use not only the church but the shed, stuff her in a bag and drive her to the pond {? how far from the church}.

First thought is I think it was a given right away she would have to be killed as she could name her perp. So to me that means he took the suitcase with him in the car when he drove her out to the church where I think she died. I read somewhere here tonight Mrs C L said the bag was out by the curb of her driveway and just disappeared! That cements this part of it for me, as Coinkydink's just don't happen in murder.

That brings me to say I think this person might have an accomplice who does his every wish, who is mesmerized by him, knows his faults that he fights, but understands him. And he gives this person power in being a helpmate, whose desire to be appreciated is the reason for doing what he says.


Linask, Don't you think it odd they didn't report her missing till 8pm? Dinner is usually around 5, right? Leaving your daughter out that late, all alone, seems very risky to me. I think she might have been given free reign, except for her grandfather. I don't know. Just too bad and a lesson for us all. xox

I live in a MHP. Mostly adults. I have an 8 year old that lives across the street that I have to literally drag home after 8:00 because her mother does not come looking for her. Most of her friends are adults because the majority of residents in a MHP are adults. There are 81 Child Molestors listed with the Megans Law website in my immediate area, 1 in the MHP. A 25 to 30 year old man just tried to drag a 9 year old into his car a half a mile from our Park. I can't let my grandson play in his own front yard. This just doesn't happen in Tracy, it is happening EVERYWHERE. So, in answer to the thread title..How do you profile a killer, just look over your shoulder.

 

[RhythmicSun]

And what is interesting is that they often look so normal. I have been thinking that IF - and I mean IF - the pastor is involved in this that the ministry is a good cover for aberrant activity, and the crime was one of opportunity due to where he lives. There are so many red flags with this person. (childhood hometown, no bio info whatsoever prior to his marriage at age 29, etc.) At the very least, he knows something, and something major. He is definitely linked in some way. IF he is the perp he may be tired and want to be found because of how poorly the suitcase was disposed of.

 

[nursebeeme]

Scandi, we know Sandra obviously left the park as her body was found outside it, yet noone saw her leave. I think you are on the right track. Her family called police at 8p.m. when she hadn't come back for dinner. It's thought that the video of her skipping was shot around 4p.m. One of our resident astrologers believes she was dead by 8:15p.m. So we have an approximately 4 hour window if we believe she wasn't held somewhere for a few days.

I concur. And the call to cops went out at 8pm... obviously time would pass before the searching started as well...including the searching of cars, which would have given the killer even more time to do what he was doing. maybe even 5-6 hours.

I can imagine from the minute that he had Sandra the clock was ticking in his mind...thinking he could be caught at any second... so I would maybe look for someone that was on their way to work or someone who was not at home when cops went around knocking on all the doors the first time.

I have a hard time thinking she was held in the trailer park as they used blood hounds that first night... then again nothing is perfect...

 

[nursebeeme]

another thought - the video of her skipping, it has been said that she was skipping to her house, which means she would be going toward the back (or non exit/entrance) of the park...what about the video from her house? IF the perp was in a car, don;t you think they would be caught going back out towards the exit (hence passing Sandra's house)? Of course there is a possibility that they went down another street.

Do we know how many homes there have cameras? I heard the LE say yesterday that they have hours and hours of video and one being from the hotel/motel parking lot across the street from the mhp....wonder if they have footage of SOMETHING???!!!

this is just my thinking... but if I had just done something really bad that I didn't want to get caught doing I would not drive back past Sandra's house to get out. I would have turned around and went around Orange and back around and out the front... Driving back past her house does not strike me as something a person this evil and sneaky would do... moo of course

 

[nursebeeme]

I noticed several days ago that Orange Street which someone mentioned LL lives on (this was never verified but it brought out early important forensic astrology clues about the pastor, and put the spotlight on him for us), is at the back and leads to a field that is behind the church. Also, the pastor at 77 would have a lot of time on his hands during the day, since the position is probably part-time due to the small size of the building and congregation.

and also another thought to add on to that one....does his wife work? Is she home during the day?

Most perplexing is why was grandaughter's brown kia suv towed to fbi bay???

 

[~Always Have Hope~]

this is just my thinking... but if I had just done something really bad that I didn't want to get caught doing I would not drive back past Sandra's house to get out. I would have turned around and went around Orange and back around and out the front... Driving back past her house does not strike me as something a person this evil and sneaky would do... moo of course

speculation : or coming back at all that night to the mhp. I could imagine that the perp took Sandra imediately, left the mhp went to the church (possibly grabbing the suitcase BEFORE getting Sandra) then disposed of her {I hate to write that}(possibly all with in an hour or less).......he may have been so spooked by his own actions that he had to drive around or something (teaching a class, jmo)....anyways, at the point that the news broke locally he might have stayed away purposefully.....idk~ just my two cents worth

 

[RhythmicSun]

and also another thought to add on to that one....does his wife work? Is she home during the day?

Most perplexing is why was grandaughter's brown kia suv towed to fbi bay???

I have seen some type of involvement by a wife and/or mother figure in the 1931 chart I posted in the forensic astro forum, so we'll see.

Thanks everyone for all this good info. There is so much, and it's coming out fast and furious (no pun intended) and I've lost track of where the bloodhounds lost her trail. Was it in the street near her house? (indicating removal by vehicle, KIA or other vehicle?)

 

[nursebeeme]

<<Disorganized/asocial offenders

Disorganized/asocial offenders are often of low intelligence, have a below average IQ (<90), and commit their crimes impulsively. Whereas the organized killer will specifically set out to hunt a victim, the disorganized will murder someone when the opportunity arises, rarely bothering to dispose of the body but instead just leaving it at the same place where they found the victim. They usually carry out "blitz" attacks, leaping out and attacking their victims without warning, and will typically perform whatever rituals they feel compelled to carry out (e.g., necrophilia, mutilation, cannibalism, etc.) once the victim is dead. They rarely bother to cover their tracks but may still evade capture for some time because of a level of cunning that compels them to keep on the move. They are often socially inadequate with few friends, and they may have a history of mental problems and be regarded by acquaintances as eccentric or even "a bit creepy". Usually they are very introverted people, too. They have little insight into their crimes and may even block out memories of committing the murders.>>

Snipped from Wiki, it was mentioned in an article today that Sandra's killer has the makings of a Disorganized killer. A that would not have the intelligence, and would murder and place the body close to home.

Wow! Great snippit on d/o killers. Bold is mine.

This for sure seemed like an impulsive act that occured when the opportunity arose (Sandra walking up the street). We do not know how far back into the park she made it on that street but she never walked back past the camera toward her house. She was headed toward the Pastor... but we also know from a neighbor across the street that Wohler used to go out of his way to drive past her house all the time and was also due to be on his way to work in that time frame.

The rarely bother to cover tracks is also very interesting. I think the suitcase fits in here along with any other sloppy coverups that might have been found in any of the mobile homes of the POIs they are looking at. Also, it is my opinion that the disposal in the pond was sloppy and also fits with a low IQ. I don't happen to think the person knew about the pond being drained. One resident of Tracy was quoted as saying it was the closest body of water to the town. I think our perp had a really good knowledge of the general area and dumped her in the first place possible. The pond had a stand of trees in front of it that could have covered the disposal of the case as well as it being remote, and if he dumped her that night, dark as well.

Socially inadequate, eccentric, "a bit creepy", and introverted fit with all four of the POIs (cannot comment on cousin as we don't even have a name). When I see the word eccentric Wohler and the Preacher stand out first and foremost. Creepy...first one that pops to my mind is preacher and wohler.

sorry for the long post

 

[Mysterylover]

I noticed several days ago that Orange Street which someone mentioned LL lives on (this was never verified but it brought out early important forensic astrology clues about the pastor, and put the spotlight on him for us), is at the back and leads to a field that is behind the church.
Also, the pastor at 77 would have a lot of time on his hands during the day, since the position is probably part-time due to the small size of the building and congregation.

The following are questions that have crossed my mind:
1. IS there any possibility the child walked to the church and the killer was already at the church as well as the luggage ??...

hides her in the suitcase in the church shed, possibly until they get a vehicle large enough to load the suitcase in..

2. Could the child have walked-up on 'someone' & saw 'something' at church that caused the persons to murder her??...:angel:

3. Did anyone other than myself have their hair stand up on their arms, when Williams, the male church member made sure he told about the stolen suitcase and yard sale? Hmmm!

 

[nursebeeme]

I have seen some type of involvement by a wife and/or mother figure in the 1931 chart I posted in the forensic astro forum, so we'll see.

Thanks everyone for all this good info. There is so much, and it's coming out fast and furious (no pun intended) and I've lost track of where the bloodhounds lost her trail. Was it in the street near her house? (indicating removal by vehicle, KIA or other vehicle?)

Rhythmic, are you seeing more indicators for the preacher than the others? I don't know why but he seems to fit that disorganized killer thing to a T... I would see wohler as more of an organized killer with a higher IQ..

As for the bloodhounds...I don't remember hearing any info on them Just LE trying to cover themselves and saying they had called in dogs, went door to door and used helicopters???

 

[RhythmicSun]

I think someone said there is a fence at the back of the property separating the MHP from the field that leads to the back of the church.

Mysterylover, your second question is interesting considering the forensic astrologers Soulscape and Tuba determined an 8:15pm demise. (quick)

 

[RhythmicSun]

Rhythmic, are you seeing more indicators for the preacher than the others? I don't know why but he seems to fit that disorganized killer thing to a T... I would see wohler as more of an organized killer with a higher IQ..

As for the bloodhounds...I don't remember hearing any info on them Just LE trying to cover themselves and saying they had called in dogs, went door to door and used helicopters???

hi nurse, there is so much info in this case that is missing and needed, and already available that I haven't been able to focus on the one I wanted which is PM, and now FLW.

back in a sec

 

[nursebeeme]

I agree about FLW! Why make comments like that about the suitcase and a rummage sale???? Strange to say the least! And he had keys to the church! (seen in video locking up church with pastor after fbi left...will go try to find it)