Rebecca Zahau Wrongful Death/ADAM SHACKNAI FOUND RESPONSIBLE #5

[screecher]

^^^ Absolutely. It is. The point. Otherwise, what is the freakin' point ?

 

[*Lash*]

Does ROA mean Report of Autopsy? Could you please explain to this dinosaur, lol? TIA


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:wave: ROA = register of actions

The website for the civil suit court documents.

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/

 

[Lezah]

You're right - I've been cropping to avoid posting an unnecessarily disturbing picture.
The one I've attached is more complete and I chose not to have it appear within the post but rather as an attachment only.
For those who do not wish to view an autopsy picture, please avoid.
The picture also shows the only area in which the ligature slipped upward, but the starting point was at the level of the thyroid cartilage - well above the cricoid. The slippage was upward toward the knot which was just below the right ear and is well described in the autopsy report.
The mystery mark on the left side is unrelated to the ligature which was formed into a noose.
The location of the ligature furrow on the front of the neck is illustrated below.

Thank you Cynic for this really helpful illustration and also posting the picture with a warning. I believe that all those here on this thread respect RZ and the picture goes to further illustrate this tragedy and horrific nature of her death. I’m sure we all understand it is posted to help us theorize the injury path, and I sincerely hope it will do that. Thanks again for the time and trouble in helping us to understand the autopsy details better.




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[Imp]

Okay, so we see the injury to the left, omg, there is another on the right where her arm/shoulder meets with her neck?
:gaah: It looks like a true forrow hwow:

Thank you cynic

I scrolled through the rest of the posts after yours, Screecher, and didn't see it mentioned.

I have the same question you do. There's the wound we were discussing yesterday, on her left side, but there also appears to be another significant wound on the right side farther out on her shoulder. WTH?

Guess I'll re-read the ARs sometime today.

ETA: The wound I identified on her "left side" is actually on her right side and our left looking at the photo. The significant wound I noted on the right side is actually on her left shoulder area, our right as we look at the photo. Sorry for the confusion. Need more coffee.

 

[Imp]

Thank you Cynic for this really helpful illustration and also posting the picture with a warning. I believe that all those here on this thread respect RZ and the picture goes to further illustrate this tragedy and horrific nature of her death. I’m sure we all understand it is posted to help us theorize the injury path, and I sincerely hope it will do that. Thanks again for the time and trouble in helping us to understand the autopsy details better.




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The pictures don't offend me at all - they just make me sad (and angry at times). My heart breaks all over again for the Zahaus every time I see one, knowing how much more difficult it is for them to see what she went through.

 

[Tortoise]

I scrolled through the rest of the posts after yours, Screecher, and didn't see it mentioned.

I have the same question you do. There's the wound we were discussing yesterday, on her left side, but there also appears to be another significant wound on the right side farther out on her shoulder. WTH?

Guess I'll re-read the ARs sometime today.

ETA: The wound I identified on her "left side" is actually on her right side and our left looking at the photo. The significant wound I noted on the right side is actually on her left shoulder area, our right as we look at the photo. Sorry for the confusion. Need more coffee.

Re your ETA - are you sure about this? cynic stated the knot was below her right ear which seems to agree with your first impressions, that the first injury under discussion is on her left side and the other injury is on her right side.

 

[Lezah]

:wave: ROA = register of actions

The website for the civil suit court documents.

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/

Thanks Lash, my apologies for not being clearer [emoji854]


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[Lezah]

Guesthouse entryway showing framed rectangular vent to left, and stairwell to upper floor opposite. Stairs to lower floor are just beyond the vent on the left hand side

( I believe this vent appears at ceiling level in the storage room below the guesthase - see my next post)

 

[Lezah]

Guest house Storage room (below ground floor - note rectangular window to top right which is floor level at ground)

Question - is this the same rectangular portal as shown in the hallway image I posted previously - so it this an image of the storage room below the guesthouse that appears on the plans?

(If you look outside the entryway, you can see the foot of the stairwell that takes you up to the hallway of the guesthouse)

(I was attracted to this factor by a ‘sensitivity’ in AS testimony - he described the guesthouse layout in particular detail, but used words to the effect of “...and that’s all I know about...” at the end of the description. I posted then, that it caught my attention.

I was in court, so I’m not sure if it is as apparent on the video, but it peaked my interest and stood out.

I looked into if there were any other rooms in the guesthouse, as I felt this was’ sensitive’ to him in his testimony. The plans revealed a storage room, which AS omitted from his description of the layout... I think this is the room where RZ was kept (after she screamed out)

What are your thoughts, and what about the room, if anything is significant to hanging and to /or any potential causes of the additional injuries to RZ?

I welcome your ideas and comments....

EDITED TO ADD - just occurred to me...did someone post that the gloves were found in a ‘storage area under stairs’?(!) Could this be that area?

Just my opinion....

 

[BBL]

Lezah, I think I know where you are going with the pictures and I tend to agree with you. I think the guest house played a very large role in Rebecca's murder. I think the main house was where she was accosted, chased (she yelled help), and subdued. I think the guest house is where the action actually happened. Then, she was drug to the grass below the balcony while Adam went upstairs and staged the rope tying and wrote the message. All my opinion, of course.

Can anyone show me on the diagram which part of the throat is missing?

 

[Lilibet]

Lezah, I think I know where you are going with the pictures and I tend to agree with you. I think the guest house played a very large role in Rebecca's murder. I think the main house was where she was accosted, chased (she yelled help), and subdued. I think the guest house is where the action actually happened. Then, she was drug to the grass below the balcony while Adam went upstairs and staged the rope tying and wrote the message. All my opinion, of course.

Can anyone show me on the diagram which part of the throat is missing?

I completely agree. And by Adam’s own admission on the 911 call, Rebecca was hanging IN the guest house. How he could mistake the balcony of the main house for the guest house is beyond me. I just can’t fathom that this was just a panicked slip of the tongue that meant nothing.

Lezah’s reminder that Adam avoided mentioning the storage room in his testimony is significant IMO. The door leading from the hallway is so obvious, I can’t imagine he never looked to see where it went. And how convenient that there is a pipe running across the ceiling...ideal for hanging. I hate writing that.

 

[Lezah]

Lezah, I think I know where you are going with the pictures and I tend to agree with you. I think the guest house played a very large role in Rebecca's murder. I think the main house was where she was accosted, chased (she yelled help), and subdued. I think the guest house is where the action actually happened. Then, she was drug to the grass below the balcony while Adam went upstairs and staged the rope tying and wrote the message. All my opinion, of course.

Can anyone show me on the diagram which part of the throat is missing?

Thanks for your feedback.

Walking to the guesthouse from the main house also explains the very dirty feet?

*Note the ‘hoisting /storage’ hooks embedded into the concrete ceiling*

Re your question - I understand the comment from Mary was RZ’s ‘throat’ was missing, so I assume the whole inner throat as Cynic has shown in his illustrations. To my knowledge the cartilage and hyoid ‘encapsulates’ the throat, as if it’s one ‘complete’ unit.

 

[Lezah]

I completely agree. And by Adam’s own admission on the 911 call, Rebecca was hanging IN the guest house. How he could mistake the balcony of the main house for the guest house is beyond me. I just can’t fathom that this was just a panicked slip of the tongue that meant nothing.

Lezah’s reminder that Adam avoided mentioning the storage room in his testimony is significant IMO. The door leading from the hallway is so obvious, I can’t imagine he never looked to see where it went. And how convenient that there is a pipe running across the ceiling...ideal for hanging. I hate writing that.

Yes, I know what you mean!

We know there is a storage room, two in fact, one on the ground floor, smaller, and one below ground. The plans say the lower ground one is 11’ x15’.. and the entry to the lower storage room is certainly somewhere off that hallway...

I would like a firm confirmation of the photo to make sure it’s right. I will keep looking for details on it and more plans online.

( also, JS decorated the whole house, including carpeting and painting the storage rooms. If the rest of the house was anything to go by at the time of RZs death the storage rooms were in likely in a very run down condition)

Just my opinion....

 

[bourne]

You're right - I've been cropping to avoid posting an unnecessarily disturbing picture.
The one I've attached is more complete and I chose not to have it appear within the post but rather as an attachment only.
For those who do not wish to view an autopsy picture, please avoid.
The picture also shows the only area in which the ligature slipped upward, but the starting point was at the level of the thyroid cartilage - well above the cricoid. The slippage was upward toward the knot which was just below the right ear and is well described in the autopsy report.
The mystery mark on the left side is unrelated to the ligature which was formed into a noose.
The location of the ligature furrow on the front of the neck is illustrated below.

To see Rebecca's deep tightly woven ligature wound, with the numerous other visible contusions and abrasions in and around her thin neck and shoulders and back makes me angry that LE would have the audacity to rule this a suicide.

I am glad the jurors saw through to the TRUTH too. MURDER. Rebecca was heinously and depravely murdered by a psychopath, name of murderer purposefully withheld because s/he knows who s/he is.

 

[bourne]

Guest house Storage room (below ground floor - note rectangular window to top right which is floor level at ground)

Question - is this the same rectangular portal as shown in the hallway image I posted previously - so it this an image of the storage room below the guesthouse that appears on the plans?

(If you look outside the entryway, you can see the foot of the stairwell that takes you up to the hallway of the guesthouse)

(I was attracted to this factor by a ‘sensitivity’ in AS testimony - he described the guesthouse layout in particular detail, but used words to the effect of “...and that’s all I know about...” at the end of the description. I posted then, that it caught my attention.

I was in court, so I’m not sure if it is as apparent on the video, but it peaked my interest and stood out.

I looked into if there were any other rooms in the guesthouse, as I felt this was’ sensitive’ to him in his testimony. The plans revealed a storage room, which AS omitted from his description of the layout... I think this is the room where RZ was kept (after she screamed out)

What are your thoughts, and what about the room, if anything is significant to hanging and to /or any potential causes of the additional injuries to RZ?

I welcome your ideas and comments....

EDITED TO ADD - just occurred to me...did someone post that the gloves were found in a ‘storage area under stairs’?(!) Could this be that area?

Just my opinion....

Interesting speculation but I have no doubt the hanging occurred from the murder room with the outdoor balcony. The murderer knew the intricate details of the Spreckels mansion and knew the precise lengths s/he had to cut the noose and wrist and ankle binds because the murderer has been there numerous times before, and due to her/his psychopathology had indeed envisioned how s/he would murder either Rebecca and/or Jonah solo or both together numerous times in the past, the fantasy continued in the murderer's insane delusional mind for YEARS. Yes, that is what I believe.

 

[bourne]

Given how correct I was in my reading of the jurors in court, I am just as 100% certain when the criminal investigation into Rebecca's murder is reopened, and mark my words, it will be, the true murderer who believes s/he has gotten away with murder thus far, will be tried, convicted and punished as a capital crime. I will be there to observe justice on earth on the day of execution.

May Rebecca and Maxie rest in peace, at last.

 

[tootsat441]

I recall someone recently brought up the marks on RZ’s back that were puzzling since some were underneath her tied arms and wrists. In the pic of the storage room can anyone tell if the surface on the floor is smooth or rough? Rough enough to leave abrasion marks if someone were dragged across it?

 

[Lilibet]

I recall someone recently brought up the marks on RZ’s back that were puzzling since some were underneath her tied arms and wrists. In the pic of the storage room can anyone tell if the surface on the floor is smooth or rough? Rough enough to leave abrasion marks if someone were dragged across it?

It’s hard to tell because apparently the photo was taken after the mansion was remodeled IIRC. Do we know what the floor looked like at the time of Rebecca’s murder? Even some carpet could leave abrasions on some people (rug burn).

 

[Lezah]

It’s hard to tell because apparently the photo was taken after the mansion was remodeled IIRC. Do we know what the floor looked like at the time of Rebecca’s murder? Even some carpet could leave abrasions on some people (rug burn).

Exactly, the condition of the room prior is not known, unless the “1000’s” of crime scene photos included this area...?( the lead detective said 1000’s of photos were taken in her testimony)


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[Lezah]

Interesting speculation but I have no doubt the hanging occurred from the murder room with the outdoor balcony. The murderer knew the intricate details of the Spreckels mansion and knew the precise lengths s/he had to cut the noose and wrist and ankle binds because the murderer has been there numerous times before, and due to her/his psychopathology had indeed envisioned how s/he would murder either Rebecca and/or Jonah solo or both together numerous times in the past, the fantasy continued in the murderer's insane delusional mind for YEARS. Yes, that is what I believe.

Your points are well taken, and it is always interesting how we can see the same facts so differently.

From my perspective, I feel certain that the guest house was the scene of RZs death.

At the beginning of my interest in the case, I was also of the same opinion as yourself - the bedroom was the scene of the death, but staged.

However, the available evidence led me to change my mind.

My considerations -

The dropped towel and minimal blood spotting were outside the bedroom

The lack of DNA, hair, fibers, fingerprints from either AS or RZ ( except, primarily, for RZ for the rope) in the bedroom - this first led me to consider the room as not the principle area of activity.

The lack of rope filaments / fibers found( which may be expected to be present from cutting of the the rope in the room / on the carpet)

The lack of indentation marks in the carpet from cutting a rope ( if you put a rope down to cut it, you would likely leave indentations or marks on the floor / furniture where you rest it, to cut it) - none were evident.

The lack of carpet ‘pull’ or drag mark behind the leg of the bed (if it was used as an anchor for the hanging) suggesting this was also staged.

The distance of the bed movement was inconsistent with the body weight drop.

The lack of long / short drop hanging injuries on RZs body ( no spinal injury, spinal fracture, spinal dislocation - and no-bleeding, hemorrhage or tissue damage or other wise to the rear of the neck)

RZs (very)dirty bare feet indicate she was located somewhere other than in the bedroom

The inability to explain the lack of footprints on the balcony, and the suggestion RZ could ‘hop’ if she ‘leaped’ in one motion across the balcony ( why not shuffle?)

((NB the defense attorney was the one who demonstrated how ridiculous this theory was when he nearly broke through the courtroom floor with his ‘ leaping’ demonstration!))

The lead detectives testimony stating the photos of RZs body were taken around 8.00 hours by the SOCO. She said he could not go inside the building first as they were still clearing the rooms - So there appears to be apparent misconception that the photos were taken when the ME arrived - much later.

This makes the lividly visible in the legs a particular area of interest - as it’s inconsistent with a short time on the ground - and also with AS timing of when she was found.

The statement from AS on the 911 “got a girl.....hung herself in the guest house...”

The fact the rope length indicated RZ would have been inches from the ground if she had been hanging based on the reconstituted rope length shown at trial.

And finally, the lack of DNA on RZs body and ‘discovery’ area - and glaring inconsistencies in the ‘cutting down’ story by AS - involving the table being needed to reach her, the three arms needed while holding her, the phone, the knife and resuscitation etc.

I also feel that taking RZ to a place where she could be more easily controlled is more in keeping with the psychopathy of someone who would commit a murder such as this.

It was using the evidence available that brought me to the hog tying hypothesis, I proposed that early on too, and very sadly, I was right.

However, it’s challenging each other of our hypothesis that brings results, and that can only be a good thing.

QUESTION for you guys - does anyone know why is there no time stamp on the crime scene evidence photos that were supplied to the plaintiff?

All just my opinion....






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