Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat 100km NW of Melbourne, 4 Feb 2024 #3

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Hats said:
Maybe biggest impact was lost time and wasted resources on having to field calls from the public that they have seen the same woman.

I don't think it has affected the direction of the investigation (which is unknown to us), as they have confimed publicly that SM had left the property that morning (supposedly for a routine run). I think it would have a lot more impact to the investigation if it was not confirmed that she had left the property.
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For me though, that is a very big stumbling block, because I don’t have anything to prove that she left the property.

We have One picture of her inside the property (with a plastic bag of something, that has been referred to as being dog poo).
Police have said they’ve seen her walking down the driveway - and they’ve said she left for a run at around 7am.

If they have proof of that fact, why are they not releasing that footage. … or is that caught up in the ‘case of mistaken CCTV identity ‘ and they’ve continued to run with it.

IMO, any footage of her outside the property would be helpful for people who may be wracking their brains as to whether they saw anything; it may help determine the direction she headed in; it proves she actually did leave the property, and it may allay suspicions of something closer to home.
 
Warshawski said:
For me though, that is a very big stumbling block, because I don’t have anything to prove that she left the property.

We have One picture of her inside the property (with a plastic bag of something, that has been referred to as being dog poo).
Police have said they’ve seen her walking down the driveway - and they’ve said she left for a run at around 7am.

If they have proof of that fact, why are they not releasing that footage. … or is that caught up in the ‘case of mistaken CCTV identity ‘ and they’ve continued to run with it.

IMO, any footage of her outside the property would be helpful for people who may be wracking their brains as to whether they saw anything; it may help determine the direction she headed in; it proves she actually did leave the property, and it may allay suspicions of something closer to home.
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If they say they've seen her walking down the driveway i believe it. They don't have to prove anything to the public. I don't think seeing another shot of her walking away from her house would change anything. I think they said they couldn't see what direction she went?
 
SLouTh said:
I noticed the wording as well ….


I have wondered if they may be working on an extortion attempt in the background ???

IMO
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If you look into other abduction cases namely MMcCann the parents used the word please many times at the start of a sentence, almost highlits the desperation they profoundly feel.
I found MM saying please at the end of the sentence a little bit out of place.

Word placement plays a big role, almost setting the undertone of the speaker, especially when addressing the media/public in this very unfortunate circumstances in MOO
 
Warshawski said:
For me though, that is a very big stumbling block, because I don’t have anything to prove that she left the property.

We have One picture of her inside the property (with a plastic bag of something, that has been referred to as being dog poo).
Police have said they’ve seen her walking down the driveway - and they’ve said she left for a run at around 7am.

If they have proof of that fact, why are they not releasing that footage. … or is that caught up in the ‘case of mistaken CCTV identity ‘ and they’ve continued to run with it.

IMO, any footage of her outside the property would be helpful for people who may be wracking their brains as to whether they saw anything; it may help determine the direction she headed in; it proves she actually did leave the property, and it may allay suspicions of something closer to home.
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I agree, though I am going with trust in police info at the moment, which is almost no info at all, so you would think that the little bit they have told us is actually correct and not miss worded or they have extrappolated how far she got if there was a limitation of the Cctv view or recording interval (if a triggered and not a continuous type of cctv recording setup - likely if it is a cheap cctv setup).

Would be good if someone was able to identify the cctv camera brand and model. We could then check the cctv capacities. It cn be viewed on google steetview on the top right hand corner of the shed that is on the driveway. I think someone mentioned it looked like an Eufy (a cheap crappy brand). If that is the case, then probably powered by battery and trigger recording window is two minutes with the latest model. Earlier model only captures 7 seconds. Then there is minimum time between triggers.
 
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Warshawski said:
For me though, that is a very big stumbling block, because I don’t have anything to prove that she left the property.

We have One picture of her inside the property (with a plastic bag of something, that has been referred to as being dog poo).
Police have said they’ve seen her walking down the driveway - and they’ve said she left for a run at around 7am.

If they have proof of that fact, why are they not releasing that footage. … or is that caught up in the ‘case of mistaken CCTV identity ‘ and they’ve continued to run with it.

IMO, any footage of her outside the property would be helpful for people who may be wracking their brains as to whether they saw anything; it may help determine the direction she headed in; it proves she actually did leave the property, and it may allay suspicions of something closer to home.
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Yeah, I think this is what I was getting at. Police have said they have footage of her leaving the property, but they don’t know what direction she goes after that. People here have repeatedly pointed out that the exit point of the driveway is into the lane, and that if there’s no footage of her beyond that then a whole raft of possibilities open up, and the public weren’t alerted to the need for CCTV footage all over Ballarat East from 7am to 7pm for at least a week in the meantime. A week in which some footage might have become unavailable and in which many folks time and energy was directed into organising vast search parties in the bush in the heat.

I have been impressed with VICPOL in tackling some tricky cases in recent times. I imagine they’ll get there but at what potential cost to the quality and imperviousness of evidence in the long run remains to be seen.
 
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Ps. My previous comment accidentally auto posted too early!
 
Sarahlou said:
If they say they've seen her walking down the driveway i believe it. They don't have to prove anything to the public. I don't think seeing another shot of her walking away from her house would change anything. I think they said they couldn't see what direction she went?
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They don’t have to prove anything to the public at the moment, that’s true. In the long run though they are answerable to the public as a government entity regarding the way the investigation was conducted, which is probably partly why once that error was revealed they’ve gone into full information lockdown. IMO
 
KathPlumber said:
.... which is probably partly why once that error was revealed they’ve gone into full information lockdown. IMO
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That sort of knee jerk reaction will make them seem even less professional. Usually knee jerk reactions come from higher up the chain of management (or should I say chain of command in this case).
 
Hats said:
That sort of knee jerk reaction will make them seem even less professional. Usually knee jerk reactions come from higher up the chain of management (or should I say chain of command in this case).
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Are you speaking from experience? ;)
 
The latest Herald Sun article mentions the "Ground Crew" group who are organising a local search party this Saturday. Will be interesting to see what comes of that...

The group has organised a local search party starting from Eureka Stockade Memorial Park, just off Eureka St, on Saturday morning.


Re the mineshafts, I thought I had read an article a little way back which mentioned Police had searched the mineshafts. Does anyone recall?
 
BGirl88 said:
The latest Herald Sun article mentions the "Ground Crew" group who are organising a local search party this Saturday. Will be interesting to see what comes of that...

The group has organised a local search party starting from Eureka Stockade Memorial Park, just off Eureka St, on Saturday morning.


Re the mineshafts, I thought I had read an article a little way back which mentioned Police had searched the mineshafts. Does anyone recall?
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Ahh yes, here is where I read about the mineshafts being searched (reported by the DM).

Police hunting missing mum Samantha Murphy have sent in specialist rescue teams to investigate abandoned local mineshafts as the main search winds down.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sinister twist as police bring in specialists in hunt for missing mum

Police have revealed specialist rescue teams and divers have been brought in to look for missing Samantha Murphy in the abandoned mineshafts that litter the Goldfields area.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
Warshawski said:
The dangers of these mine shafts have been muted since day 1, and here we have a guy who presents himself as some sort of authority in the field - who says the mine shafts haven’t even been searched. Like WTF !
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What the DM says this man has said doesn't make too much sense. If there are mineshafts that have not been disturbed, then it means that they have not been disturbed by the police or by Sam (or by someone dragging Sam into a mineshaft).

The officer said in their Day Six presser that mineshafts were being searched, as per my post in the previous thread. But I would imagine that they would start at the mineshafts that look like they have been disturbed, not the ones that obviously have not been disturbed by anyone.


A reporter asked if there were any specialists involved in looking in mineshafts or dams, in the Day Six presser.

The answer was "Yeah, that's all part of our search at the moment. We've had the police search and rescue squad involved in the search since day one."

(At around the 4:10 mark)
Link to the presser

Thread 2, post 475

imo
 
Curiousobserver said:
Does anyone local have an idea of the number of people in that area who have fallen into a mine shaft while doing normal activities like running? Is this a 1 in a million type event or does it happen every so often?
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There is a post somewhere back in the threads that says that the mineshafts are either covered with grates or have been filled in, for safety.

imo

ETA: Here is a link.


Peter Darveniza is a member of a volunteer group, Friends of Canadian Corridor, which looks after bush in the area.
The former mining engineer is familiar with the mine shafts and diggings in the area, but was sceptical of suggestions Mrs Murphy could have ended up in a disused shaft.

"There aren't many shafts that are as deep as that" he said pointing out a hole, where the base disappeared in shadow and covered in wire mesh.

"Parks [Victoria] have either filled them in or grated them," he said.

www.abc.net.au

Former detective believes police investigating Samantha Murphy disappearance should look at suspects from year-old attack

In Ballarat's bushland pinpointing a phone signal is hard, so apparently is falling down a mine shaft. So what could have happened to missing mother of three Samantha Murphy?
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
 
SouthAussie said:
There is a post and link somewhere back in the threads that says that the mineshafts are either covered with grates or have been filled in, for safety.

imo
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Yes I saw that, and lots of pictures of covered mine shafts in the local news, but they must not all be covered if this topic keeps coming up from local sources. Has anyone ever actually fallen into a mine shaft or is this just a conclusion of last resort?

I understand that hiding someone in a mine shaft is a reasonable possibility, does it ever happen by accident?
 
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I cant help but feeling that Sam would not have gone "off the beaten track" on her walk/run that morning.

She was pressed for time, still not sure if she had a 10am meeting planned with someone before the 11am brunch (conflicting stories about where she had to be and when).

Either way, Sam had things to do and places to go so I think she would have stayed to a well known path and got her exercise done as quickly as possible.

I don't think Police would have called off the ground search so fast if they believed that she fell down a mine shaft. They also have not issued any warnings about the "dangers" in the area from mineshafts or nefarious people in the bush.

Vicpol seem to be focusing on another line of enquiry that the public do not need to be concerned about?
 
Curiousobserver said:
Yes I saw that, and lots of pictures of covered mine shafts in the local news, but they must not all be covered if this topic keeps coming up from local sources. Has anyone ever actually fallen into a mine shaft or is this just a conclusion of last resort?

I understand that hiding someone in a mine shaft is a reasonable possibility, does it ever happen by accident?
Click to expand...

I will re-post the edit that I added to my post as you may not have seen it .... this is from a very local source, one who looks after the bush in the search area and is a former mining engineer.
It does not sound as if people randomly fall into mineshafts in the Ballarat area.


Peter Darveniza is a member of a volunteer group, Friends of Canadian Corridor, which looks after bush in the area.
The former mining engineer is familiar with the mine shafts and diggings in the area, but was sceptical of suggestions Mrs Murphy could have ended up in a disused shaft.

"There aren't many shafts that are as deep as that" he said pointing out a hole, where the base disappeared in shadow and covered in wire mesh.

"Parks [Victoria] have either filled them in or grated them," he said.

www.abc.net.au

Former detective believes police investigating Samantha Murphy disappearance should look at suspects from year-old attack

In Ballarat's bushland pinpointing a phone signal is hard, so apparently is falling down a mine shaft. So what could have happened to missing mother of three Samantha Murphy?
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
 
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