Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat 100km NW of Melbourne, 4 Feb 2024 #4

[BreakingNews]

Respectfully, I disagree; "keeping him in line" said in "jest" in Australia, is a statement used to cover up & make light of inappropriate, bad or so-called larikin-ish (usually male) behaviour, with an inherent underlying suggestion of risk-taking & immaturity in the one who has to be "kept in line". It also suggests that responsibility & taking care of things properly rests with the individual (usually female, a mother role, so to speak) tasked with keeping the other immature party "in line", which can lead to resentment by the party being "kept in line". This seemingly innocent phrase carries a lot of weight, imo. When I first read it in SM's job/role description at the family business, this phrase stood out to me regarding her personal & professional relationship with her husband & business partner. I think I read that SM & MM were teen sweethearts? If that was the case, SM would have had to have been "keeping him in line" for a long time :-( . Someone being "kept in line", especially over a long time, may well end up resenting being "kept in line" at some point. Or they may be fearful &/or angry if it looks like they were going to lose the person keeping them "in line", as then who will be responsible for their actions & risk taking?! Who will make things right?! Not the person who needs to be "kept in line". Really, few people want to have to be another person's "keeper". While this is my opinion only, I speak from personal experience of having being married to a so-called "larrikin" risk taker for 30 years, who I finally left when the kids were grown, as I was over being his keeper & keeping him in line. I note that when a woman leaves, or intends to a leave a relationship, is the most high-risk time for her. I also note that "tradies industries" are amongst the most misogynistic in Australia, so just because "keeping him in line" may be a seemingly "normalised" phrase in "tradies industry", this does not make it ok.

I never said it was ok! However in tradies industry often men laugh about it. Keep him in line often simply means he drinks a lot. Something tradies in the past were proud of.

 

[mondayschild]

I was thinking that it could be associated with Mick's love of classic cars. "I think I will buy this classic car, honey. It's a beauty". "I think you probably have enough of them, Mick".

And I don't think the humorous comment would be published on the company website if it really was an issue within the family.

imo

I had the same thought re the cars vs it being related to deep-seated personality traits! I think it suggests that they are probably pretty down to earth people with an awareness and acceptance of their own foibles.

 

[Lemony]

I have just been reading about how the bushland at Mt Clear has become a dumping ground for people's hard rubbish.

It is a very big problem, and costs the council about $100,000 a year to go and remove all of the rubbish periodically.
People just keep dumping there, despite the council providing hard rubbish pickups as most/all councils provide.

They considered putting CCTV in the area, to capture the identity of the dumpers, but it doesn't sound like they did that.

April 2023 article (paywalled for some)
Road through Mount Clear pine plantation littered with illegally dumped refuse

Perhaps Samantha witnessed someone dumping rubbish and called them out on it.
This led to an altercation and then violence, with Samantha being fatally injured.
The offender had used a car to transport the rubbish and was able to drive away from the scene taking Samantha's body elsewhere.

 

[Deleted member 339914]

I have just been reading about how the bushland at Mt Clear has become a dumping ground for people's hard rubbish.

It is a very big problem, and costs the council about $100,000 a year to go and remove all of the rubbish periodically.
People just keep dumping there, despite the council providing hard rubbish pickups as most/all councils provide.

They considered putting CCTV in the area, to capture the identity of the dumpers, but it doesn't sound like they did that.

April 2023 article (paywalled for some)
Road through Mount Clear pine plantation littered with illegally dumped refuse

Must have been a nightmare when looking for any evidence relating to Samantha's disappearance ...

 

[PolyDot]

I had the same thought re the cars vs it being related to deep-seated personality traits! I think it suggests that they are probably pretty down to earth people with an awareness and acceptance of their own foibles.

It’s a silly & bit demeaning statement ‘ keep in line ‘ but it means nothing here - they most likely paid someone to write their web page - it’s just a throw away line ..

 

[Toowong(s)]

I have just been reading about how the bushland at Mt Clear has become a dumping ground for people's hard rubbish.

It is a very big problem, and costs the council about $100,000 a year to go and remove all of the rubbish periodically.
People just keep dumping there, despite the council providing hard rubbish pickups as most/all councils provide.

They considered putting CCTV in the area, to capture the identity of the dumpers, but it doesn't sound like they did that.

April 2023 article (paywalled for some)
Road through Mount Clear pine plantation littered with illegally dumped refuse

Good find! Potentially SM disturbed illegal tippers and threatened to report them? They reacted, things escalated? When I see stuff like that going on I take a quick photo with my phone, try to get the number plate. Perhaps if police can find the phone there will be some good evidence! Seems far fetched that fly tipping escalated to violence of some sort, but stranger things have happened… There was a case recently in Brisbane in my old suburb Toowong where a woman disappeared, allegedly killed following neighbourhood dispute over recycling correctly.

 

[SouthAussie]

Perhaps Samantha witnessed someone dumping rubbish and called them out on it.
This led to an altercation and then violence, with Samantha being fatally injured.
The offender had used a car to transport the rubbish and was able to drive away from the scene taking Samantha's body elsewhere.

Yes, that thought crossed my mind also. The photos in the local article I posted (sorry that not everyone can see them) are pretty disgusting.

There is all kinds of rubbish .... pillow, stove, toilet seat, cupboards, lots of broken panels (looks like they may be old eaves/ceiling panels and such, ones that might contain asbestos), cereal boxes, recliner, mattresses, and a myriad of other small and large things.

The rubbish is strewn all along sections of the track on both sides. Near Brittain Street, Mt Clear, says one of the photo captions.

I am guessing early morning on a Sunday might not be a bad time to illegally dump in a less-travelled place.

imo

 

[Dotta]

There is all kinds of rubbish .... pillow, stove, toilet seat, cupboards, lots of broken panels (looks like they may be old eaves/ceiling panels and such, ones that might contain asbestos), cereal boxes, recliner, mattresses, and a myriad of other small and large things.

The rubbish is strewn all along sections of the track on both sides. Near Brittain Street, Mt Clear, says one of the photo captions.

I am guessing early morning on a Sunday might not be a bad time to illegally dump in a less-travelled place.

imo

Not a scenic and relaxing route it seems

 

[SouthAussie]

Good find! Potentially SM disturbed illegal tippers and threatened to report them? They reacted, things escalated? When I see stuff like that going on I take a quick photo with my phone, try to get the number plate. Perhaps if police can find the phone there will be some good evidence! Seems far fetched that fly tipping escalated to violence of some sort, but stranger things have happened… There was a case recently in Brisbane in my old suburb Toowong where a woman disappeared, allegedly killed following neighbourhood dispute over recycling correctly.

Makes me also wonder if there is anyone who might explore amongst the dumped rubbish for things to use in their little bush camp set-up (or wherever). Perhaps someone who is a bit mentally unstable and who Sam may have encountered.

imo

 

[mondayschild]

It’s a silly & bit demeaning statement ‘ keep in line ‘ but it means nothing here - they most likely paid someone to write their web page - it’s just a throw away line ..

true. we have nothing to go on in the case so we are discussing their website The point I was attempting to make was that they are not pretentious/worried about how it 'seems' to others (even if they didn't write the words themselves) to micromanage the wording so this tends to suggest a more open, generous type of person.

 

[SouthAussie]

Not a scenic and relaxing route it seems

I am not sure if the illegal dumping is limited to the Brittain Street area (as per a photo caption) or is more widespread throughout Mt Clear bushland.

Brittain Street is not close to Boak Road, where the police were most recently investigating. And might or might not be on the route that Sam ran that morning - if it was, it would have been close to the start of her run. imo


Google maps

 

[Dotta]

To add...
Such places are usually a magnet for all kinds of hoarders.

Strange there are no witnesses.
But maybe they keep distance from Police

 

[WiseOwl]

I have just been reading about how the bushland at Mt Clear has become a dumping ground for people's hard rubbish.

It is a very big problem, and costs the council about $100,000 a year to go and remove all of the rubbish periodically.
People just keep dumping there, despite the council providing hard rubbish pickups as most/all councils provide.

They considered putting CCTV in the area, to capture the identity of the dumpers, but it doesn't sound like they did that.

April 2023 article (paywalled for some)
Road through Mount Clear pine plantation littered with illegally dumped refuse

You could be onto something there @SouthAussie! An altercation early morning with someone dumping rubbish - it's a possibility.

Brittain Street is mentioned in the photograph, is that a street Samantha would be running on that Sunday morning?

 

[bearbear]

Respectfully, I disagree; "keeping him in line" said in "jest" in Australia, is a statement used to cover up & make light of inappropriate, bad or so-called larikin-ish (usually male) behaviour, with an inherent underlying suggestion of risk-taking & immaturity in the one who has to be "kept in line". It also suggests that responsibility & taking care of things properly rests with the individual (usually female, a mother role, so to speak) tasked with keeping the other immature party "in line", which can lead to resentment by the party being "kept in line". This seemingly innocent phrase carries a lot of weight, imo. When I first read it in SM's job/role description at the family business, this phrase stood out to me regarding her personal & professional relationship with her husband & business partner. I think I read that SM & MM were teen sweethearts? If that was the case, SM would have had to have been "keeping him in line" for a long time :-( . Someone being "kept in line", especially over a long time, may well end up resenting being "kept in line" at some point. Or they may be fearful &/or angry if it looks like they were going to lose the person keeping them "in line", as then who will be responsible for their actions & risk taking?! Who will make things right?! Not the person who needs to be "kept in line". Really, few people want to have to be another person's "keeper". While this is my opinion only, I speak from personal experience of having being married to a so-called "larrikin" risk taker for 30 years, who I finally left when the kids were grown, as I was over being his keeper & keeping him in line. I note that when a woman leaves, or intends to a leave a relationship, is the most high-risk time for her. I also note that "tradies industries" are amongst the most misogynistic in Australia, so just because "keeping him in line" may be a seemingly "normalised" phrase in "tradies industry", this does not make it ok.

i totally agree, thank you for writing this, i cringed when i read it on their company profile

 

[A Spade]

Respectfully, I disagree; "keeping him in line" said in "jest" in Australia, is a statement used to cover up & make light of inappropriate, bad or so-called larikin-ish (usually male) behaviour, with an inherent underlying suggestion of risk-taking & immaturity in the one who has to be "kept in line". It also suggests that responsibility & taking care of things properly rests with the individual (usually female, a mother role, so to speak) tasked with keeping the other immature party "in line", which can lead to resentment by the party being "kept in line". This seemingly innocent phrase carries a lot of weight, imo. When I first read it in SM's job/role description at the family business, this phrase stood out to me regarding her personal & professional relationship with her husband & business partner. I think I read that SM & MM were teen sweethearts? If that was the case, SM would have had to have been "keeping him in line" for a long time :-( . Someone being "kept in line", especially over a long time, may well end up resenting being "kept in line" at some point. Or they may be fearful &/or angry if it looks like they were going to lose the person keeping them "in line", as then who will be responsible for their actions & risk taking?! Who will make things right?! Not the person who needs to be "kept in line". Really, few people want to have to be another person's "keeper". While this is my opinion only, I speak from personal experience of having being married to a so-called "larrikin" risk taker for 30 years, who I finally left when the kids were grown, as I was over being his keeper & keeping him in line. I note that when a woman leaves, or intends to a leave a relationship, is the most high-risk time for her. I also note that "tradies industries" are amongst the most misogynistic in Australia, so just because "keeping him in line" may be a seemingly "normalised" phrase in "tradies industry", this does not make it ok.

While the "keeping in line" phrase may have been accepted & normalised within the family, business & general social community construct in this instance, & in that of many other - including seemingly here in this forum - I don't think it is actually ok for this to be "ok". This attitude diminishes & provides a get out of jail free card for the actions & responsibilities of the person who needs to "be kept in line". If someone apparently needs to still be "kept in line" as an adult, in a child-like way, this also suggests an immaturity, or Peter-Pan like personality. I am not suggesting that this phrase as used in this instance has any direct bearing on this case, only that it possibly provides an interesting insight into relationship dynamics and attitudes generally. MOO, from my own experience, which also informs me that sometimes the "keeper" can become weary of always doing the "keeping", especially when the actual children have grown & no longer need as much "keeping" any more.

Definitions of "keep in line" include:
Other forms: kept in line; keeping in line; keeps in line
To keep in line is to maintain control over someone, the way a teacher contains the actions of his students as they walk to recess or a military commander restricts her battalion's movements.

1. verb
   control (others or oneself) or influence skillfully, usually to one's advantage
   “she keeps in line”
   synonyms:control, manipulate

From: keep in line : https://vocab.com/d/keep in line

 

[blushcherry]

Wow, we really have nothing to go on if this is what we're discussing

 

[Dotta]

i totally agree, thank you for writing this, i cringed when i read it on their company profile

Yep.
Even for me, as not a native English speaker, it sounds a little patronizing.

And not appropriate for an official website of a Business.

Like
Formal vs Informal Language

JMO

 

[JLZ]

i totally agree, thank you for writing this, i cringed when i read it on their company profile

I think perhaps it's a reminder to customers to treat her with respect. They might suck up to Mick, but if they treat 'the secretary' like s***, they'll find their business is no longer wanted.

 

[bearbear]

Wow, we really have nothing to go on if this is what we're discussing

it may be an important insight into the dynamics of their relationship?
if sm was tired of some behaviours and wanted to move on, it can cause a lot of stress in a relationship?

 

[ProfCluezo]

Hello fellow sleuthers… really enjoying and valuing the many theories and ideas presented here…. Thank you… just a quick question from a new keen but bumbling detective… is there a way to get directly to the most recent thread (in this case 4) rather than starting at the first thread and having to scroll through each time? I’m hoping there may be a shortcut way of getting straight to the most recent post? I look forward to sharing some ideas as they develop… been following this thread avidly so far!