Seaching for Anna - #2

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I looked up SSDI for someone with the name of "Joseph Romero" as it appears on the slip. It appears his age was 51 in 1973. It would mean he would've been born around 1922. According to SSDI there is a Joseph Romero who was born May 1922 and died March 2002. He lived in Santa Barbara. How far is SB from SF? (He could've moved there afer 1973) I am not sure where I am heading here, I guess to find out if this "Joseph" is a made up individual or a real individual. It's probably useless information since "Joseph" could really have been a patient of GW's but the slip and the date on the slip is fake.

I did the same thing...LOL I found a couple. one in SF b. 1921, one in Merced b. 1922 and one in LA b. 1922. (I only checked census records for 1930)


I also did a google map between the address of the clinic to the address at the farm. The distance is 35.5 miles and travel time approx. 50 minutes. It might have taken longer 30 years ago.

So say 2 hours travel time, plus time for surveillance then working a shift at the clinic. That would be a little tricky.

 

[Rhett]

Just my thought after reading the last several posts. . . I believe that the couple in the car trying to lure Anna was the first attempt and it failed. I also believe that because Anna's brothers saw the people in the car the two Georges' could not afford to send them again. So, they either sent someone else or they did it themselves. As far as the paper you have that may give him an alibi that paper would be very easy to concoct. However, I do find it very strange that he would have that in his posession particularly if he did not keep anything else like that. It would seem to imply that he possibly needed an alibi for that day. About the other markings on that paper, it could have come from the carbon itself being overused and the creases showing up on the next form. But, you are right, there does seem to be "some" overwriting. Also, remember if you ever used carbon how it could slip around sometimes, so that could account for some of what you see. I hope I am making sense to everyone. I do believe that the attempted kidnapping and the final kidnapping were connected. It would be too bizarre if they were not. Also, I am probably going to be laughed off of the board but since we are throwing out ideas . . . were either or both of the two Georges' into Elvis Presley? I believe that January 16 is Elvis' birthday. Could there be any significance to them? (I know, I know, don't laugh too hard. My weird ideas are why I don't write much. JMOO. Rhett.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

LOL Rhett Elvis was born on the 8th. But Dr. Laura was born Jan. 16th.

 

[Annasmom]

Just my thought after reading the last several posts. . . I believe that the couple in the car trying to lure Anna was the first attempt and it failed. I also believe that because Anna's brothers saw the people in the car the two Georges' could not afford to send them again. So, they either sent someone else or they did it themselves. As far as the paper you have that may give him an alibi that paper would be very easy to concoct. However, I do find it very strange that he would have that in his posession particularly if he did not keep anything else like that. It would seem to imply that he possibly needed an alibi for that day. About the other markings on that paper, it could have come from the carbon itself being overused and the creases showing up on the next form. But, you are right, there does seem to be "some" overwriting. Also, remember if you ever used carbon how it could slip around sometimes, so that could account for some of what you see. I hope I am making sense to everyone. I do believe that the attempted kidnapping and the final kidnapping were connected. It would be too bizarre if they were not. Also, I am probably going to be laughed off of the board but since we are throwing out ideas . . . were either or both of the two Georges' into Elvis Presley? I believe that January 16 is Elvis' birthday. Could there be any significance to them? (I know, I know, don't laugh too hard. My weird ideas are why I don't write much. JMOO. Rhett.

Rhett, never fear: Brainstorming is always good. As far as I know, they weren't into Elvis, but I know GB was fond of naming people with names which matched his--according to his system of numerology--such as Barbra Streisand. Uh, I don't know about Dr. Laura!

 

[Annasmom]

Thanks Dr. Doogie and Sherlock, Jr.

I ask because I do not think this was a random act either. How well did Anna know the horse people and the neighbors? I think Anna was taken by someone that she knew. Maybe GW and GB or maybe someone around the farm that wanted the little girl or who were hired by GW and GB that lived in the area. How trustworthy were the people surrounding the area that the family knew? Did anyone move away or just leave and the days-months following Anna's disappearance? Could she have been hidden or the ranch/farm while the search was going on?

I think someone came by and perhaps she left with them probably on foot-maybe picked up by automobile later -never suspecting that she was being kidnapped. JMO

Fox1950, it is hard to get any information on the horse people, the hunters, or the motorcycle club which used the property. We knew two of the horse people who actually boarded horses, and they both helped in the search. The physical search of the property was so extensive that I doubt anybody could have hidden Anna away there, but of course there was a hunters' cabin up the trail from the farm...at least I was told that there was. I never saw it. As to people moving, I don't think so. We knew almost all the neighbors; many of them are still there.

 

[Annasmom]

Annasmom, do you still have any copies of this newsletter? What could you have written about Anna? Was this newsletter only sent to family, like inside Christmas cards?

I think our top "circulation" was about 50, and it went to family and friends. I do have archive copies, but I don't believe anything was written about Anna before she disappeared. We put out maybe two issues after that date which included part of the bus trip log.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

...snip...
I believe that Anna's disappearance was a planned abduction - planned by the two Georges and carried out by the "couple in the car". The evidence of financial motive by Waters and Brody is too strong for me to dismiss. Also, the fact that the couple in the car attempted to lure Anna shortly before her disappearance is too coincidental to be unrelated.

I generally dismiss the idea of a random "crime of opportunity" because of the relative isolation of the farm. People generally who travel on this road are there for a reason - they either live on or are visiting someone who livges on the road. There are much more direct and less arduous routes between the two endpoints of the road. Because of this, it would be unlikely that someone would randomly cruise the road looking for a child to steal - the odds would be highly against seeing any children, not to mention one that was alone and vulnerable for abduction.....

I've been thinking about the couple in the car, so decided to go back and read exactly what Annasbro recalled from the incident. I remember Joe had suggested that he undergo hypnosis, do you know if this has been done yet? Although amazing with any memory of the incident at all, I am very skepital of the "people in the car" because of all the inaccuracies. I think it's just too fuzzy, (unless he did remember more since this) to actually make these people guilty of anything except for chatting with a few cute kids hiking down the road. He also can't be sure that she offered only Anna a ride, or all of them. I remember in the 70's we used to roam the countryside, and people would offer to give us a lift regularly. To Annasbro it might have seemed that possibly Anna was a target, but knowing the way most "normal" people react, if I where to visit with a group of children, with two older boys and one adorable 5 year old girl with curly blond hair, and a bubbly personality, I probably would focus the attention on her, just because she is so darn cute.

Originally posted by Annsbro 2-4-06 1st Anna thread # 443
As far as I remember it here is the accounting of the incident with the car luring Anna towards it: It seemed like the middle of the day. Maybe it was a Sat. or Sunday. We used to like to walk towards the end of the canyon down the road heading east. The house where we lived was about 1.5 miles from the end of the canyon. We were approximately 1/4 mile from our house when a car passed us and pulled infront of us about 25 ft. Saturn the dog barked at the car as a woman wearing a loose fitting white shirt with embroidery on it and long dark hair opened up the back door. She spoke to us from within the car, a 4 door american sedan that was a dark green or gold. Somehow I remember it as a chevy impala late 60s - it was not new. I know cars pretty well. I thought it had the old style washington plate - white with green letters - I can't be sure about that.

When we got the dog settled down she made small talk and addressed Anna primarily - I believe . I answered for her but she continued to address Anna with small talk and questions - do you live here?, where do you go to school?, do you walk down the road often? at that point she asked if she wanted her (us - I can't remember) to ride to the end of the road with her. This creeped me out sufficiently to turn our party around and head back home. The woman closed the door and the car scooted off quickly toward end of the canyon. I don't remember if and how I relayed the story at the time to my parents.

I didn't think much of it. I knew some creepy people would travel down that road every once in a while. A body was dumped closer to the entry of the canyon earlier that year. I just knew there was no way any of us was going to get into a car with people we didn't know and kind of put it behind me. I wish now I had played closer attention to everything.

Orginally posted by Annasmom 1/31/06
The woman got out of the BACK of the car and tried to get Anna to get into the car. Anna started to approach the car, but was pulled back by her older brother. Then the woman got back into the car and the driver drove off.

Orginally posted by Annasbro 5/26/06
Being so long ago it is a bit fuzzy. She was in the front seat. There was a driver. She or someone in the back (they might have stayed in the car) opened the back door. She approached us. She was early to mid 30s I would guess. She had long straight black hair and a loose fitting cotton blouse with embroidery on it like a Mexican or Indian type blouse. I dont remember her having any accent just that she was overly friendly in a weird way for someone we didn't know.

I am totally confused. Was the woman in the front seat, or the back seat, did she get out, or stay in. Was there 1, 2 or 3 people in the car? Did she try to grab Anna, or did they just chat?

Also, according to this, creepy people did travel down the road every so often, even a body dumped.

I have to wonder how certain he is that this happened so close to the disappearance. Obviously they had the dog at both points. The dog was young, so it was close. If it happened 2 or 4 weeks prior (there are also conflicting estimated times) to her disappearance, that would be smack dab in the middle of the holidays, and this vehicle could have been a holiday traveler visiting the area. With it being the holiday season, people are often more "friendly".

 

[Annasmom]

I've been thinking about the couple in the car, so decided to go back and read exactly what Annasbro recalled from the incident. I remember Joe had suggested that he undergo hypnosis, do you know if this has been done yet? Although amazing with any memory of the incident at all, I am very skepital of the "people in the car" because of all the inaccuracies.
I am totally confused. Was the woman in the front seat, or the back seat, did she get out, or stay in. Was there 1, 2 or 3 people in the car? Did she try to grab Anna, or did they just chat?
Also, according to this, creepy people did travel down the road every so often, even a body dumped.
I have to wonder how certain he is that this happened so close to the disappearance. Obviously they had the dog at both points. The dog was young, so it was close. If it happened 2 or 4 weeks prior (there are also conflicting estimated times) to her disappearance, that would be smack dab in the middle of the holidays, and this vehicle could have been a holiday traveler visiting the area. With it being the holiday season, people are often more "friendly".

Annasbro said, when he first related this story more than 30 years after the fact, that it was a vague memory. It would be less believable if it did NOT have some inconsistencies. The thing which makes it so creepy is that there was nothing at the end of the road except hiking trails and the hairpin double-back where Purisima Creek Road turns into Higgins Canyon Road, which at that times had only a few farms spread over about ten miles of winding hilly one-lane road. So why would children out for a walk near their house possibly want a ride to the end of the road? And where were these people going? Regarding your question about Joe and hypnosis, yes, he did undergo hypnosis. There is a transcript in the book, Searching for Anna. Unfortunately, we didn't actually learn anything new from the session. You're right (and thank you), she was awfully cute. So were the boys.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Annasbro said, when he first related this story more than 30 years after the fact, that it was a vague memory. It would be less believable if it did NOT have some inconsistencies

True, It's just that some of the most important factors are not clear. Whether the woman got out of the car, or stayed in is pretty important IMO. If she actually got out, as Annsbro says in one post, and was actually trying to persuade Anna to go with her is big, obviously the woman was not worried about "witnesses". There were 2-3 adults in the car, plenty of adult power to over take 3 young children. If these people where in anyway responsible, they would have just done it then. The boys could have identified them whether they took Anna forcibly, or casually.

If the woman actually stayed in the car, as Annasbro states in another post, and just asked questions, she could have been trying to identify Anna as being the child they wanted to come back for later, but here again, they where still allowing 2 witnesses to see them, (and their car and licence plates). If they where trying to abduct Anna at this point, they couldn't be sure the kids wouldn't run home and immeadeately tell you the story, complete with licence plate numbers and car description. If they where up to no-good they might even think you could have called the police to report a kidnapping attempt. I just don't think these people had anything to do with Anna. I think they where holiday travelers out for a Sunday afternoon drive to see relatives on the other side of the canyon.

The thing which makes it so creepy is that there was nothing at the end of the road except hiking trails and the hairpin double-back where Purisima Creek Road turns into Higgins Canyon Road, which at that times had only a few farms spread over about ten miles of winding hilly one-lane road. So why would children out for a walk near their house possibly want a ride to the end of the road? And where were these people going?

Annasbro said the woman was asking questions, if she asked where they where going, and he said the end of the canyon, (Where he told us they where headed) than her response could have been, "You want a ride to the end of the road?" This tells me she was familiar with the area. Possibly a college student home with her out of state boyfriend for Winter break. (thus the older car and hippiesh clothes) Looking at a satellite map, the hairpin curve is about at the end of the canyon.

I'm not doubting for a second this event happened, but as you and Annsbro both stated it is a very faded memory. I wouldn't overlook/rule out other possibilities. I would also be calling every person who ever lived in that area if they knew of these people, if that hasn't been done already

I can't remember it discussed. What ever happen with the dead body found nearby, was that crime ever solved?

 

[Annasmom]

True, It's just that some of the most important factors are not clear.
I think they where holiday travelers out for a Sunday afternoon drive to see relatives on the other side of the canyon.
Annasbro said the woman was asking questions, if she asked where they where going, and he said the end of the canyon, (Where he told us they where headed) than her response could have been, "You want a ride to the end of the road?" This tells me she was familiar with the area. Possibly a college student home with her out of state boyfriend for Winter break. (thus the older car and hippiesh clothes) Looking at a satellite map, the hairpin curve is about at the end of the canyon.
I'm not doubting for a second this event happened, but as you and Annsbro both stated it is a very faded memory. I wouldn't overlook/rule out other possibilities. I would also be calling every person who ever lived in that area if they knew of these people, if that hasn't been done already...
I can't remember it discussed. What ever happen with the dead body found nearby, was that crime ever solved?

Some of these questions are impossible to answer (I don't know what happened to the body), but we have considered what we have here, however vague, along with every other scrap of information we have been able to get over the years. The neighbors were questioned (some time after Anna disappeared) and Doogie and I distributed flyers to every house on Purisima Canyon right before the most recent Half Moon Bay Review article came out. I wish, of course, we could go back in time and see whether the people in the car had any real significance in our case. As it is, we just have that rather remarkable memory popping up 30-something years later. One thing on my (lengthy) to-do list is to go to the library and read the 1972 Reviews on their antique microfilm. I read the ones closer to the date when we had the report from the woman who claimed she spoke with Anna several years after she disappeared. We were able to verify this woman's claims that there had been robberies in the area prior to the establishment of a Sheriff's substation in the area. There might be some useful information in the paper for the year before Anna disappeared, and I need to put aside the time to look for it.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Some of these questions are impossible to answer (I don't know what happened to the body), but we have considered what we have here, however vague, along with every other scrap of information we have been able to get over the years. The neighbors were questioned (some time after Anna disappeared) and Doogie and I distributed flyers to every house on Purisima Canyon right before the most recent Half Moon Bay Review article came out. I wish, of course, we could go back in time and see whether the people in the car had any real significance in our case. As it is, we just have that rather remarkable memory popping up 30-something years later. One thing on my (lengthy) to-do list is to go to the library and read the 1972 Reviews on their antique microfilm. I read the ones closer to the date when we had the report from the woman who claimed she spoke with Anna several years after she disappeared. We were able to verify this woman's claims that there had been robberies in the area prior to the establishment of a Sheriff's substation in the area. There might be some useful information in the paper for the year before Anna disappeared, and I need to put aside the time to look for it.

Thank you for the additional information. I hope you know, I'm not trying to challenge you, or your son by any means. I guess what my real question with the "couple in the car" is, was there anyone Brody/Waters trusted (at all), to do this? From all accounts stated, they where both very paranoid, to the point of almost not trusting one another. From my understanding of the two, I just can't see them trusting anyone with the knowledge that they had something to do with the disappearance of Anna. Even if these people where desperate for a child, there would still be the worry of them getting caught and them pointing the finger back at the Georges. I can't see them paying them to do it, for hush money could be worth 10 years of child support. Brody obviously didn't trust his family, or he would have willed his safe deposit box cash to one of them. It just doesn't add up.

If the Georges took her, I think they had to work anonymously as possible, (even posing as a welfare worker in disguise) and quickly hand her off to an adoption orginazation. Who would they trust?

 

[Annasmom]

Thank you for the additional information. I hope you know, I'm not trying to challenge you, or your son by any means. I guess what my real question with the "couple in the car" is, was there anyone Brody/Waters trusted (at all), to do this? From all accounts stated, they where both very paranoid, to the point of almost not trusting one another. From my understanding of the two, I just can't see them trusting anyone with the knowledge that they had something to do with the disappearance of Anna. Even if these people where desperate for a child, there would still be the worry of them getting caught and them pointing the finger back at the Georges. I can't see them paying them to do it, for hush money could be worth 10 years of child support. Brody obviously didn't trust his family, or he would have willed his safe deposit box cash to one of them. It just doesn't add up.

If the Georges took her, I think they had to work anonymously as possible, (even posing as a welfare worker in disguise) and quickly hand her off to an adoption orginazation. Who would they trust?

You would be horrified if you could see the present chaotic state of my files, but I know GW made a rather lengthy phone call to some woman shortly after GB died. The woman ran some kind of health club in Pacifica (roughly 14 miles north of Purisima Canyon) and knew GW by (I believe) the name of George Wolf or Wolfe. This information was in Joe Ford's notes. Obviously there was someone he trusted. Sort of.

 

[smile22]

has Anna's brother ever gone under hypnosis about the people in the car? would he be willing to to see if he could remember anymore info?

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

has Anna's brother ever gone under hypnosis about the people in the car? would he be willing to to see if he could remember anymore info?

Annasmom said he did and it didn't produce any additional memory.

 

[Cubby]

Annasmom said he did and it didn't produce any additional memory.

I thought it was only Anna's step father who had undergone hypnosis. :waitasec:

 

[Annasmom]

I thought it was only Anna's step father who had undergone hypnosis. :waitasec:

That's right. This is not a good time to ask Annasbro, since he's studying for some high-powered examinations, but certainly it is worth considering. I have to add, though, that I myself have tried being hypnotized and I just didn't go under. Apparently some people are poor subjects for hypnosis. Do you think stubbornness has anything to do with it?

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I thought it was only Anna's step father who had undergone hypnosis. :waitasec:

Oh crud!! I'm so sorry about that, I totally should have reread the post before spouting out a wrong answer that wasn't directed to me in the first place. :slap:

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

You would be horrified if you could see the present chaotic state of my files, but I know GW made a rather lengthy phone call to some woman shortly after GB died. The woman ran some kind of health club in Pacifica (roughly 14 miles north of Purisima Canyon) and knew GW by (I believe) the name of George Wolf or Wolfe. This information was in Joe Ford's notes. Obviously there was someone he trusted. Sort of.

I've been thinking about this for a day or so, and find it very intriguing. Did anyone ever talk to this lady? Is she still living? This is the only one I can find, could it be the same one?

The Fitness Academy

418 Old County Road
Pacifica, CA 94044
(650) 557-5557

 

[Dr. Doogie]

You would be horrified if you could see the present chaotic state of my files, but I know GW made a rather lengthy phone call to some woman shortly after GB died. The woman ran some kind of health club in Pacifica (roughly 14 miles north of Purisima Canyon) and knew GW by (I believe) the name of George Wolf or Wolfe. This information was in Joe Ford's notes. Obviously there was someone he trusted. Sort of.

Annasmom:

I cannot find this woman's name in my notes - please email me the name again. I know I took a look at her when this came up before, but we never contacted her (I do not know if I even located her). Joe may have spoken to her when it first was discovered in 1980 - I do not recall. We should probably take another run at this lead.

 

[Annasmom]

Annasmom:

I cannot find this woman's name in my notes - please email me the name again. I know I took a look at her when this came up before, but we never contacted her (I do not know if I even located her). Joe may have spoken to her when it first was discovered in 1980 - I do not recall. We should probably take another run at this lead.

On Dec. 26, 1981, two days after Brody died, GW made a 39-minute call to Pacifica (355-6185. At that time I think the area code would have been 415. Joe called this number Jan. 29, 1982, and found that it was a health studio. A woman named Evelyn Wanick (spelling?) answered. She knew George Brody as Brody, but GW as "Jack Wolf". Joe's notes say "colon therapy, massage therapy".