Searches for Heather

[jellybeanz]

Jellybeanz, for me, the interesting timing isn't that it took about 5 minutes to drive back from LB's to River Oaks. That seems about right. What I find interesting is that it took Heather (or at least her phone) 11 minutes to drive from River Oaks to LB's (4.3 miles) the first time. I've been wondering why it would have taken her so long to get there. It's not that far. Consider the fact that it took about 6 minutes for her to go from LB's to Augusta Plantation Dr. and back to Longbeard's. Those two locations are approximately 2.8 miles apart. Double that for a round trip and it took her approximately 6 minutes to drive approximately 5.6 miles. There is little to no traffic on that stretch of road that time of night or year. So, what stands out to me is why it took her so long to drive to Longbeard's in the first place.

Thank you Surfside. Like I said in the earlier post, I didn't have time to check out what google maps say the estimated time is for these drives.

I do get your point and thank you for that. I really need to revisit that with 'google map directions', but I'm unsure how accurate that programme is.
Someone on the ground doing the journey at that time of night would be ideal, but what are we? The FBI?

Yes, it's implausible to me that she was driving to a restaurant dumpster area and sitting, then to a housing complex, then back to a restaurant while calling a pay phone, while wondering if she should drive to PTL.

With respect Jilly, I am of the opinion Heather had no clue she was calling a pay phone.
I also do not think Heather was aware of going to PTL that night/morning at any time.
PTL was Plan B, and was only agreed to when Sidney was sitting at Heather's apartment lot, in her car, thinking 'This is not a good idea for me to leave from here'

The only information Heather had that night was;
Sidney left Tammy
(Payphone) is his new number
Meet at Longbeards parking lot near the dumpsters.

thank you Jellyz,

That really helps to have a visual with the times and pings. I think you have a good handle on what could have happened that night. I do lean towards an angry wife doing the "hit", only because she has the best motive. If other were enlisted, you risk leaks and people talking, and it gets really messy trying to keep the secret. I don't know what happened, but it seems like you are correct that it went down at Long Beards in that dark parking lot. But it has to be two, one to drive her car and the one they came in, and what ever they did to her, was quick and she had to be put into either her car or the other one. So what did they do with her, if SM drove her car to PTL? Do you think the other (truck) took her away and got rid of the body? It takes a lot of strength to strangle a person and some time, about 5-7 minutes or more. No blood in the truck or the car, so how did this all go down. I am not asking you personally, just thinking out loud so as to figure it out, KWIM?

I totally understand about the whole aspect of involving other people in your crime and risking it getting messy. It is messy, but murder is messy.
Those 'kids' were manipulated into abducting Heather via money and also I suspect, a gang thing. Keeping quiet and all that. Let's see how long that 'word' lasts in the grand scheme of things....

I think that when Heather arrived at Longbeards the second time, Sidney's F150 arrived and so did the other vehicle with the 'kids' in it.
Heather was taken into the 'kids' vehicle and left Longbeards and disappeared up International Drive. Tammy followed in the F150.
Sidney drove Heather's car to PTL, via her River Oaks condo.

 

[jellybeanz]

I feel that SM might have told her to meet him there and maybe instructed her to pull more towards the rear of the building. Sadly we are left with a lot of unanswered questions. If only LBs would have had a camera system, the information that might have given.

That's the thing though.

Investigators never got the information about Longbeards until many months into the investigation. A lot of information was thus lost.

Like I said, the Moorer's got really lucky or they misdirected the PTL/Longbeards crime scene like master magicians.

 

[jillycat]

Thank you Surfside. Like I said in the earlier post, I didn't have time to check out what google maps say the estimated time is for these drives.

I do get your point and thank you for that. I really need to revisit that with 'google map directions', but I'm unsure how accurate that programme is.
Someone on the ground doing the journey at that time of night would be ideal, but what are we? The FBI?

With respect Jilly, I am of the opinion Heather had no clue she was calling a pay phone.
I also do not think Heather was aware of going to PTL that night/morning at any time.
PTL was Plan B, and was only agreed to when Sidney was sitting at Heather's apartment lot, in her car, thinking 'This is not a good idea for me to leave from here'

The only information Heather had that night was;
Sidney left Tammy
(Payphone) is his new number
Meet at Longbeards parking lot near the dumpsters.

I totally understand about the whole aspect of involving other people in your crime and risking it getting messy. It is messy, but murder is messy.
Those 'kids' were manipulated into abducting Heather via money and also I suspect, a gang thing. Keeping quiet and all that. Let's see how long that 'word' lasts in the grand scheme of things....

I think that when Heather arrived at Longbeards the second time, Sidney's F150 arrived and so did the other vehicle with the 'kids' in it.
Heather was taken into the 'kids' vehicle and left Longbeards and disappeared up International Drive. Tammy followed in the F150.
Sidney drove Heather's car to PTL, via her River Oaks condo.

BBM: This is my point.

 

[LBDunes]

That's the thing though.

Investigators never got the information about Longbeards until many months into the investigation. A lot of information was thus lost.

Like I said, the Moorer's got really lucky or they misdirected the PTL/Longbeards crime scene like master magicians.

BBM - I started to ask about the timing of the info about LongBeards. Do we really know if it was many months until they obtained that information? I don't know that it was immediate in relation to the disappearance, but it could have been sooner than that once the phone records were obtained with a warrant? Do we know that since the account was tied to google that the info wasn't more immediately available? I don't know?

 

[jellybeanz]

BBM: This is my point.

Yay! Thank you for reiterating ;-)

 

[jillycat]

Yay! Thank you for reiterating ;-)

I thought you meant that I meant she knew she was calling a pay phone. lol

I would think she would have asked him what/whose phone he was on. If I got a surprise call from an ex on a number I didn't recognize, that would be my first question.

 

[Surfside]

Thank you Surfside. Like I said in the earlier post, I didn't have time to check out what google maps say the estimated time is for these drives.

I do get your point and thank you for that. I really need to revisit that with 'google map directions', but I'm unsure how accurate that programme is.
Someone on the ground doing the journey at that time of night would be ideal, but what are we? The FBI?

We don't need the FBI. We have locals.

I've driven that stretch a decent number of times. Mostly in the afternoon, but a few times at night. I would say the latest I've been on that road is about 1:00 am. That's why I know that around 3:00 am in December, it's a quiet 4 miles.

 

[magnolia]

I thought you meant that I meant she knew she was calling a pay phone. lol

I would think she would have asked him what/whose phone he was on. If I got a surprise call from an ex on a number I didn't recognize, that would be my first question.

If they had a civil conversation, I would think she would have asked where he was at. Especially, if he told her he had left his wife. If things got heated and they argued, I can better understand why it didn't come up.

 

[stillwatersc]

I thought you meant that I meant she knew she was calling a pay phone. lol

I would think she would have asked him what/whose phone he was on. If I got a surprise call from an ex on a number I didn't recognize, that would be my first question.

SM could have told Heather anything. He was lying about leaving his wife. He could have lied about the phone he was using.

 

[magnolia]

SM could have told Heather anything. He was lying about leaving his wife. He could have lied about the phone he was using.

BBM -- That is true.

 

[jillycat]

SM could have told Heather anything. He was lying about leaving his wife. He could have lied about the phone he was using.

Exactly, because one would not call a pay phone repeatedly thinking the ex would still be hanging around it. So it either didn't come up, or he indeed lied about what phone he was using.

Sometimes a woman will go see for herself where someone is. Or isn't. We'll never know her motivation for the trip to Longbeard's. We can only know that it involved more driving and dialing than anything associated with PTL, so it seems she was going in the wrong direction of the lure.

This is where I wonder where Longbeard's fits into that morning because if you're driving to contemplate what to do, get your head clear, or get your emotions in check, why are you simultaneously making what seems like frantic calls to the person causing all the confusion?

 

[mmiller626]

If only those phone calls had been recorded. I feel that SM did tell HE he had left TM and maybe told her he was working. She might have thought he was calling from the phone within one of the restaurants he worked at ( maybe LBs), after several failed attempts at that number, maybe she felt it was safe to call his cell phone since he said he had left TM. IMO if SM had been telling the truth about leaving TM, he already knew how TM felt about HE and the threats she had made toward her, so one would think he would have been more like " I've left T, wanna be with you etc etc, I'm calling you from a payphone, because she still has my cell phone, so whatever you do, do not call my cell phone". But instead he obviously he didn't bother to tell HE anything as such.
Sadly you have this beautiful 20 year old, who is possibly pregnant with SM's child. She probably had a lot of mixed feeling and emotions, she was happy about moving on with life, but at the same time, SM was someone she had cared about and probably feel in love with, but also she scared of TM. I'm sure he's call to her, was a lot of him blowing hot air, telling her what she wanted to hear. Unfortunately she took the bait and feel into the M's trap.

 

[LBDunes]

Exactly, because one would not call a pay phone repeatedly thinking the ex would still be hanging around it. So it either didn't come up, or he indeed lied about what phone he was using.

Sometimes a woman will go see for herself where someone is. Or isn't. We'll never know her motivation for the trip to Longbeard's. We can only know that it involved more driving and dialing than anything associated with PTL, so it seems she was going in the wrong direction of the lure.

This is where I wonder where Longbeard's fits into that morning because if you're driving to contemplate what to do, get your head clear, or get your emotions in check, why are you simultaneously making what seems like frantic calls to the person causing all the confusion?

3:16 am Phone in motion to apt
2 Outgoing calls
3:16 am (to SM cell) 7.8 seconds
3:17am (to SM cell) 249 seconds- 4 mins 9 seconds
Phone was in parking lot 3:20 am -3:24am Phone was NOT in motion, located at apartment parking lot while on phone with SM cell.

BBM - A question concerning the calls made. What is your opinion of the subsequent calls above in the timeline?
I mean taken in isolation the calls to the payphone have you wondering, but if you factor in the subsequent calls, does that bring any clarity for you?

 

[jillycat]

[/B]


3:16 am Phone in motion to apt
2 Outgoing calls
3:16 am (to SM cell) 7.8 seconds
3:17am (to SM cell) 249 seconds- 4 mins 9 seconds
Phone was in parking lot 3:20 am -3:24am Phone was NOT in motion, located at apartment parking lot while on phone with SM cell.

BBM - A question concerning the calls made. What is your opinion of the subsequent calls above in the timeline?
I mean taken in isolation the calls to the payphone have you wondering, but if you factor in the subsequent calls, does that bring any clarity for you?

I don't isolate the calls to the payphone. I question the dismissal of the chunk of the timeline that includes those calls and her drive to Longbeard's, as if it's fact that those activities are irrelevant to the complete timeline.

I have no idea why there were so many back to back calls of such short duration that morning between the first call and the last activity of her phone.

 

[mmiller626]

I don't isolate the calls to the payphone. I question the dismissal of the chunk of the timeline that includes those calls and her drive to Longbeard's, as if it's fact that those activities are irrelevant to the complete timeline.

I have no idea why there were so many back to back calls of such short duration that morning between the first call and the last activity of her phone.

Just a thought, no telling what type of mess SM told her on the payphone call. Heck he could have possibly used the " I'm going to kill myself, if I can't be with you" tactic. I believe SM knew they hadn't been together in a while and that she had started to move on, so he would have use some sort of trick to leave. IMO.

 

[Hatfield]

I can't help but think why go to LB's, especially if its closed for the night . According to the expert during the trial, her phone was near the rear of the restaurant from 2:42am-2:56am with 4 attempted calls to SM's phone, then between 2:57am-3:01am the her phone traveled between LB's and Augusta Plantation, which is also in the direction of HE's apartment, then back at LB's 3:02am-3:12am. After leaving LB's, HE's phone was shown to travel back to her apartment, with several attempted phone calls and (1) phone call that lasted I believe 4 mins. ( Correct me if I'm wrong).
I guess for myself, I'm trying to figure out why go LB's since they close at 11pm during the week. I just find it strange that a young lady would pull randomly, into a closed restaurant rear parking lot at that time of night. IMO I feel that maybe (1) HE and SM were already in the same vehicle or (2) SM maybe did maintenance for LB's like he did for other restaurants in MB, and maybe HE thought he would be there or he told her that's where he would be. To bad LB's didn't have camera's in the parking lot.

Good theories from everyone.

Re BBM

The part where she turns right around and goes back to LB has me thinking she saw him as she was leaving LB the first time. Maybe he honked at her as she was driving away and so she turns around and follows him back there.

Trying to think of a way it would fit if that happened. Hows this for a theory

1-He tells her he has left his wife and to meet him at LB at a certain time. TM is with SM the whole time during the calls.
2-She arrives at LB and he is not there yet. She waits for awhile and thinks she is stood up so she leaves.
3-As she is leaving her car crosses path with their truck and they honk to flag her or flash their lights and so she flips around to go back to LB because she knows it must be him. She doesn't expect TM to be with him and since its night time then HE could not hardly see into the truck as they cross paths. She follows them back to LB to back of lot.
4-HE jumps out to go over to truck and they both jump out and the attack happens at LB quickly and its over quick. Truck and her car are now there at LB.
5-TM volunteers to drive her car back to HE apartment while SM takes the truck back to the house to temporarily put her in a spot near the house until they have more time to take her to final dumping zone. TM wanted the easy part and didn't want to be near HE body anymore so she chose the car to apartment run.
6-TM now calls SM at home using HE phone and talks for 4 minutes. This is that last 4 minute call from her apartment to SM house. The original plan was SM was going to just pick TM up at the apartment parking lot but TM decides its not a good place because too many people coming and going and she is afraid someone will spot them. So she tells SM to just meet her at landing.
7-TM takes off for the landing in HE car and SM takes off for the landing from his house.
8-When SM arrives at landing then TM hops right in and they both take off back for the house.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey folks, let's get back on track in this thread. As specified in the opening post, this thread is dedicated to discussing the active searches for Heather and possible locations, not the trial, the mistrial, etc.

All future off-topic posts will be removed.


:wave:

 

[observation]

I'm curious- are there still organized searches for HE? I realize a lot of time has passed- just wondering and wanted to check in with this thread??!!

ETA- if not, can certainly be why this thread got O/T.
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[Madeleine74]

Not that anyone has reported.

If you have ideas on places to search that have not previously been searched, there might be people who do volunteer searching down near Myrtle Beach who will take that information.

 

[observation]

Not that anyone has reported.

If you have ideas on places to search that have not previously been searched, there might be people who do volunteer searching down near Myrtle Beach who will take that information.

Thank you very much. I don't live in the MB area but just wish HE could be found. As a mom of 3 children I could not fathom having one of my daughters missing not knowing if she is dead or alive. This case pulls on my heartstrings.


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